Mogs or Danas?

[Radd Cruisers]

I have done some searching and not found much on a comparo.

The big Ds 60s and 70s are still a bargain, but is it better to fork over the cash now or figure out later and some lost cash you should of went with the Mogs?

Looks like a good set of axles say a 14bolt, D60 are around 1500.00 Canuck bucks, the Mogs outfitted with discs are around 4K Canadian.

You gotta add lockers and do a bunch of shaving to the Danas to make them clearance worthy.

So which is best????????

[wngrog]

Originally Posted by Radd Cruisers

I have done some searching and not found much on a comparo.

The big Ds 60s and 70s are still a bargain, but is it better to fork over the cash now or figure out later and some lost cash you should of went with the Mogs?

Looks like a good set of axles say a 14bolt, D60 are around 1500.00 Canuck bucks, the Mogs outfitted with discs are around 4K Canadian.

You gotta add lockers and do a bunch of shaving to the Danas to make them clearance worthy.

So which is best????????

I have seen your shop and your skills and I think you would be capable of adding Mogs to a cruiser, no sweat.

60/70 is so strong and so worthy, but Mogs are outside the box.

Do the Mogs

[woody]

damn...tossup.....there are plusses and minuses to each....fabbin in the Mogs will take more, since keeping the rig low to the ground will be more effort. But, the clearance is critical....

2nd vote, Mogs...

[Overlord]

I say Mogs too. Although you might be limited in your up travel with the mogs and your frame. I've thought about tubing or maybe notching the frame above the axles to get more up travel. Be a lot of work, but I think the ground clearance would be sweat.

[Medusa]

I'll play old-school onery fart -- Dana Just because Mogs are "out of the box" does not make them better for the rig you are designing and the uses you will have for that rig. You'r a smart guy -- study the pros and cons of each axle and see which one fits your needs.

[Jetboy]

The mogs run the diff on the wrong side so you'll have to get a different tcase. might add too much to the cost. other than that I think they are a far superior axle. one of the best features (other than clearance) is the hubs run wet in gear lube. they have separatecases that can be drained after water crossings and only take about .3 quarts of fluid. as soon as I get the $ I plan to go to the mogs, also you'll have to spend more on wheels, but if you run the michelin open market series the tires are MUCH cheaper, my buddy runs 52's on a ford and picked them up for 600 for the set, new!! anyway chick dig the mog axles

[cruiserrg]

Its not an easy decision. D60s/70s/14bolts are much easier to install and are cheaper. MOGs are more expensive, more difficult to install.

From the sound of things your are looking at 406/416 MOG axles since I don't think 404s run discs. I run 404s

You need to consider:
MOGs are only offset to the drivers side 3.5" in front. You WILL have clearance issues and probably have to modify to get a low ridehieght and use exsisting transfercase. This cost $$ and requires fabrication.

MOG pinions have to be converted and are long. 406/416 pinion conversions are shorter than 404s.

Stock MOGs require new wheels of 17" or larger size.

Axle width is full width like d60s, but trying to get wheels with losts of back space require 20" rims on a stock hub.

And as mentioned above, you will probably want to modify the frame to fit them to get decent ride height.

Comes down to what you plan to do with it. If you are placing these under a 40 with a stock frame, my opinion is ditch the frame and start fresh. Or at least cut the back and front off and bend up new tubeing to replace to clear the axles.

I chose MOGs for the rig I am building. They are an awesome axle, but require a lot of work to be placed in a rig right. Here is a pic to get you thinking. (pay attention to the clearance, and the engine pulley, and the fact my axles have been narrowed and custom offset)

[phlyfish]

I vote mogs.

[Radd Cruisers]

Hmmmmm, that front axle would be quite the challenge........

I think the mogs are 404s with custom disc conversions.

Say I got a 70 rear and 60 front for 1K, upgraded the axles and added lockers (ARBs at my dealer cost) set up the gears ourselves.

Install would be simple and pricing should not climb anywhere near the 4K of the mogs plus custom rims and difficult install.

As intriging as the Mogs look and there are 3 sets near me I would have to lean towards the Ds for No.1 price and No.2 ease of installation.

But I will speak with the owner of the mogs and feel him out for some design ideas and custom axle lengths.

It just a dream right now, but thinking about building something this winter.


Thanks for the great input.

[Gumby]

I don't know too much about the mog axle, but I'll throw this out anyway. What are the gearing options for Unimog axles? Are yougonna be stuck with just a couple of ratios like a Rockwell, or can you be very versitile like a Dana?

[fj40charles]

The cost of custom high pinion D60 axles (CTM, Superior, 4 wheel disks, lockers, etc) is about the same or more than a set of mog axles that are setup. If you shop carefully, you can get a set of mog 404 axles for like 1800.00 US dollars. Shop around and you'll find out that a set of custom D60 axles will set you back 8K to 10K.

The cost is not a factor for me. It has to do with what fits under my 40 and whether I'm willing to cut up the body or not. Like Ruben said, if you want to run mog axles, then you really need to plan on running a complete tube chassis. If I were to build a tube chassis rig, I would install mog 404 axles under it.

There is nothing wrong with Dana 60, 70, 14 bolt axles for strength and utility. I don't build/buy stuff based on what others consider to be "bling." I buy stuff based on what I need and what will give me the best utility.

[Radd Cruisers]

[quote=fj40charles]The cost of custom high pinion D60 axles (CTM, Superior, 4 wheel disks, lockers, etc) is about the same or more than a set of mog axles that are setup. If you shop carefully, you can get a set of mog 404 axles for like 1800.00 US dollars. Shop around and you'll find out that a set of custom D60 axles will set you back 8K to 10K.




8 to 10 K, really?????


Hey Jack (Medusa) is that what you have into your axles?

[OnTheSpot]

My vote is for volvo portals! You can get a passenger side drop on the front axle. Portals are the way to go IMO. That is what i'll be saving up for.

[the shed guy]

Werent Avalanche Engineering or someone doing pertals for the D60?

Or for more clearance cut the fenders and just put bigger tyres on

[fj40charles]

[quote=Radd Cruisers]

Originally Posted by fj40charles

The cost of custom high pinion D60 axles (CTM, Superior, 4 wheel disks, lockers, etc) is about the same or more than a set of mog axles that are setup. If you shop carefully, you can get a set of mog 404 axles for like 1800.00 US dollars. Shop around and you'll find out that a set of custom D60 axles will set you back 8K to 10K.




8 to 10 K, really?????


Hey Jack (Medusa) is that what you have into your axles?

Call around and see what custom axle builders charge for a high pinion kingpin D60s with GM outer knuckles, cut down to customer's specifications with lockers/spool, gears, custom 1/2" ton rotor, 4 wheel disk brakes (ebrake on rear), 6 lug, CTM ujoints, Superior axles, PIG drive slugs, 1410 yoke, diff covers, etc., I'm sure you could save some money if you do all of the work yourself.

[Medusa]

I have about $2500 invested in my front D-60 (details here ) That price is lower than Charles quoted because 1) I did all of the work on it myself and 2)more importantly I did not go with the expensive parts such as Superior shafts and CTM joints. I am running all Spicer parts including the original 35-spline inner axle shafts (shortened by Dutchman). I have not broken anything yet, but when I do it will be an opportunity to upgrade to the stronger parts.

[cruiserrg]

Originally Posted by Gumby

I don't know too much about the mog axle, but I'll throw this out anyway. What are the gearing options for Unimog axles? Are yougonna be stuck with just a couple of ratios like a Rockwell, or can you be very versitile like a Dana?

There is only one ratio I am aware of for 404 MOGs. 3.5:1 in the diff and 2:1 in the grbs. ~7: axle ratio. Not fer over 55mph.

[MarkFJ40]

I am going to vote mogs. Ground clearance is absolutely sick.
Well worth the work and expense.
Will work well with the terrain in BC.

[Radd Cruisers]

Originally Posted by MarkFJ40

I am going to vote mogs. Ground clearance is absolutely sick.
Well worth the work and expense.
Will work well with the terrain in BC.

Hey Mark from the island heli mechanic?

If so you gotta help me install them, LOL.

Anyways I recieved some info yesterday, I was told you can swap the short too long side with some work. Although not pretty its doable and has held up as well as factory so far according to a source.

Now that adds 800US to the axle program, 1800 US for front axle and 1000 US for the rear axle. I think the pinion conversion and would cost extra plus the disc brakes.


As someone mentioned I am thinking outside the box, what if you were to purchase the mog ends and adapt them to a dana 60 as mentioned?

Any ideas on costs?

[the shed guy]

This is "outside the square"

[fj40charles]

Originally Posted by the shed guy

This is "outside the square"

How about outside the box and gay? IFS just sucks.

[the shed guy]

Originally Posted by fj40charles

How about outside the box and gay? IFS just sucks.

Well, it is certainly more complex than previous common suspension setups, and not very well understood by most, and those with the least understanding seem to want to write it off, when they cant understand it.

[fj40charles]

Originally Posted by the shed guy

Well, it is certainly more complex than previous common suspension setups, and not very well understood by most, and those with the least understanding seem to want to write it off, when they cant understand it.

I understand how IFS works and I still say they suck. IFS is good if you want a "mall terrain vehicle." IFS has not proven to hold up for serious 4 wheeling. No thanks, I'll keep my "previous common suspension setup" using coilovers and 4 link.

[the shed guy]

Big difference between understanding how IFS works, and understanding IFS.

Guess all those offroad trucks with IFS race in malls do they?

Though i see you have taken an important component of a good IFS set up, coil over shocks, to use with a rigid axle set up, so it cant be all bad.

[fj40charles]

Originally Posted by the shed guy

Big difference between understanding how IFS works, and understanding IFS.

Guess all those offroad trucks with IFS race in malls do they?

Though i see you have taken an important component of a good IFS set up, coil over shocks, to use with a rigid axle set up, so it cant be all bad.

Coilover shocks are not an IFS exclusive. I have not taken an "important component" of a good IFS setup. Stop flattering yourself.

Most IFS equipped truck come with torsion bars.

Using coilover shocks has NOTHING to do with what you describe as "good IFS" setup.

The context of this discussion is rock crawling.

IFS equipped trucks still suck even if it is what you call, "outside of the box."

One more thing.. Why don't you discuss the strength advantages of the IFS? I'm sure all of the rock crawling competitors are wrong because they use a straight axle. I don't see any top finishers using IFS.

[the shed guy]

Originally Posted by fj40charles

Coilover shocks are not an IFS exclusive. I have not taken an "important component" of a good IFS setup. Stop flattering yourself.

Most IFS equipped truck come with torsion bars.
Using coilover shocks has NOTHING to do with what you describe as "good IFS" setup.

This is the part where you show how little you know about IFS, apart from knowing how it works........

Originally Posted by fj40charles

The context of this discussion is rock crawling..

I dont see anything in the first question post of this thread regarding what type of offroad work specifically the vehicle may be used for, and if 3 of the top rockcrawlers are playing with IFS currently, [which they are] it simply means they havent embraced more modern technology fully yet, while they use what they know, but change in this agricultural field isnt to far off.

Time will prove one of us right, and before long Im tipping, so i shall leave the thread here now, rather than give you any more chance to fill us in on what you dont know about IFS

[fj40charles]

Originally Posted by the shed guy

This is the part where you show how little you know about IFS, apart from knowing how it works........





I dont see anything in the first question post of this thread regarding what type of offroad work specifically the vehicle may be used for, and if 3 of the top rockcrawlers are playing with IFS currently, [which they are] it simply means they havent embraced more modern technology fully yet, while they use what they know, but change in this agricultural field isnt to far off.

Time will prove one of us right, and before long Im tipping, so i shall leave the thread here now, rather than give you any more chance to fill us in on what you dont know about IFS

My comment about using coilover shocks with a straight/live axle was a disagreement about what you said. You seem to think/believe/reason that because I use coilovers with my staight/live axle, that I'm supporting what you describe as, "good ifs setup."

I respect your opinions about IFS, but I also have an opinion and I believe IFS is not the right solution for rock crawling. I can't predict what will be the best solution in the future because there will be new products in the future. I'm betting "off the shelf" outer for portal axles will be widely available before IFS gets a serious look in rock crawling.

Nowhere in the original post does the original poster ask for opinions about IFS. It is you that posted the pic of the POS IFS system. Based on the name of the web site and what Woody dislikes, I think it is safe to say this this is not about mud bogging, desert racing, or agricultural applications.

Let me say it again since you don't seem to understand. IFS still sucks for rock crawling.

I would expect more knowledge from a moderator.