Mogs or Danas?

[fj40charles]

Hey Sheddy,

I did a search on POR and saw that you've posted 5 times. None of these posts were
about IFS or any type of suspension.

Why limit your expertise here on ih8mud???? You should show the world just how much you know about IFS by posting in the General 4x4 section. I'm sure you'll get plenty of
opinions there.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/searc...earchid=441802

[fj40charles]

Originally Posted by bad_religion_au

not another forum sheddie.

shed guy had this discussion on an aussie wheeling board a little while back,

to tell you the truth, the first time i looked at that pic, i thought it was a solid axle with bends, like a solid IFS setup (axle is solid, not straight though /-\ kinda like that, with IFS like axles to deal with the bends, to transfer power to the hubs from the raised diff)

Do you have any links to the Aussie wheeling board?

[the shed guy]

Originally Posted by fj40charles

Why don't you go express your "expertise" on www.Pirate4x4.com. I'm sure most of the guys don't know much about IFS either and would welcome your arrogance.

Is pirate your crutch....oh..oops, no it looks more like your back up, going by those 3 posts in a row.......... but then if you were happy with what you had said in one post, you wouldnt of needed to keep coming back after looking around for another crack......would you

Oh, and I wille ven help you out to see what else you can find, while you have nothing better to do

knuckledraggers monthly

Overlander
overlander forum

80scool+ [try the trips section ]
lcool

This may help get you started on what ever it is your looking for, and maybe even go toward making a more level plaing field for you on what ever you find, or wish to take out of context

[fj40charles]

Originally Posted by the shed guy

Is pirate your crutch....oh..oops, no it looks more like your back up, going by those 3 posts in a row.......... but then if you were happy with what you had said in one post, you wouldnt of needed to keep coming back after looking around for another crack......would you

Oh, and I wille ven help you out to see what else you can find, while you have nothing better to do

knuckledraggers monthly

Overlander
overlander forum

80scool+ [try the trips section ]
lcool

This may help get you started on what ever it is your looking for, and maybe even go toward making a more level plaing field for you on what ever you find, or wish to take out of context

I was looking for a link to your discussion on IFS on another board. I like to see what others are saying.

Pirate4x4.com is not crutch, but rather a web site with over 20,000 members. I have yet to see a web site with the vast array of knowledge that is available there.

Sounds to me like you know your IFS stuff... Why discuss it here? I'll be happy to discuss it on POR too. The best thing about POR.... There will be more than 2 opinions to see and read.

I think it is a real shame that you're holding back on your knowlege of IFS.... Like you said, it will probably the next big thing in Rockcrawling.

[bad_religion_au]

hey, i wasn't mentioning that stuff about the Aussie board for ammo for anyone.

i think for probably 90% of wheelers, an IFS rig, and a good driver will see them through most stuff. i'm considering getting an old pajero or something with IFS for the "standard" class 4x4 comps they run in aus, just because i'd like to experiment and find the differences. i wheel with a huge 4 runner that gets hung up heaps with a wheel 4 foot in the air, while my non lifted stiff as sh!t 45 walks over the section... but the IFS looks/ feels so much more stable, and with a locker or two lifting a wheel shouldn't matter as much.

in hardcore 4x4 stuff like rock crawling, i can see why you'd like the extra flex.

remember a live or solid axle will push down on the opposite wheel when a wheels getting stuffed into the guard, IFS won't without some form of crosslinked hydrolic pressurised shocks or something. so agree to disagree, sheddie i'm sure you could outdrive my 40 with your IFS prado, so i don't think your full of shit, but again, live axle IN THE CONTEXT of rockcrawling is proven, well worn path, with consistent results, and probably less $$$ than working out IFS that works well in these situations

[Medusa]

This is outside the square

So it looks cool -- how does it work????? If memory serves me correctly Walker Evans competed with this suspension only once or twice, it performed poorly and he ditched it for solid axles. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[cruiserrg]

Yep you are right. He went from old school solid axle, to IFS/IRS (pic #1 below), to retrofitting solid axle in replaceing IFS/IRS (pic #2 below), and now runs a moon buggie on solid axles.

[cruiserrg]

please bring the IFS debate here: http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.p...531#post246531

[the shed guy]

Originally Posted by Medusa

So it looks cool -- how does it work????? If memory serves me correctly Walker Evans competed with this suspension only once or twice, it performed poorly and he ditched it for solid axles. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Yes, you are correct,
he went back to live axle, instead of trying to develop the IFS while competing, and was buyilding a unit with IFS to develop while he continued with what he knew and understood.

How much worse the IFS was, in the set up they used, I guess is a little difficult to measure.

[orangefj45]

i'm getting a set of mogs.
imho portals are the way to go. you can run a smaller tire, which saves weight and puts less stress on the axles and you still have awesome ground clearance.
volvos scare me because of the parts availability and cost.

and you'd have to change the t-case no matter which axles you go with.

[Radd Cruisers]

Is the volvo centred in the rear???

I did a searchon the volvos with very little luck, looking like the availability is very few.

I think I asked this question before about adapting mog portals ends to Toyota center, the feeling was the pinion would be a weak point. I though the lower range gearing in the mog ends would translate into less torque further down the axle????


Hey Orange, I guess after reading this thread you must be building a buggy to accept those portals?

[orangefj45]

the toyota centers should work, but why go that route? there's nothing wrong with mog centers, and they come with factory mechanical lockers, that can easily be modified to air actuated lockers.

yes, i've been wanting to build a buggy for a couple of years now. just was'nt sure what to run but i have it narrowed down now.
my "cruggy"concept:
shortened fj40 cab (extracab fj45) with an aluminum flatbed
tube frame
mog axles on 40" tires
some sort of injected small block
lockup th350
atlas or possibly np241, depending on how i like the gearing in a similar vehicle
i'm trying to keep this streetable for multiple reasons, although it'll mostlikely be towed to most wheeling trips.

i've tried to inform myself on axles a lot. i already had a set of 1 ton stuff and rockwells, but decided to sell them in favor of the mogs. they're way strong, factory lockers, loads of ground clearance, and fairly economical, considering what you'd have to do to other axles to make them comperable. and even if you run a 40" tire on em, you still have a lot more clearance than danas with 44s, nevermind the weight savings and stress on the axles.

[RMP&O]

Pirate4x4.com is not crutch, but rather a web site with over 20,000 members. I have yet to see a web site with the vast array of knowledge that is available there.

Ozzy version of PoR

there you go...and I find it to be a much more plesant forum where people don't flame and bash near as much plus there is next to zero sheep owners on there! And yea they know a shit load in Aus.

Volvo portals are both rhs drop for front and rear. I was told recently by a master mechanic who has worked on not only the volvo portals but the TGB/C-series trucks and Mogs and Pinzie's and much more...well, he said the volvo portal is a Salsbury Rover axle in it's basic design. First time I heard that one. This guy has a set of the better ratio portals for $3k. good deal and I have checked on pricing a bunch for these axles....why!? Well becuase they will go under one of my old school P-trolls pretty damn easy! $1500 each is really a good price unless they are trashed.

[trailcarnage]

Mogs! Portal, lockers and low gears from the factory. You can't beat that for less than $2000...generally that is.

[Scottb]

If possible, portal boxes on the end of dana 70`s front and rear with 40 spline axle`s. I have seen mog axle`s break and 2 1/2 ton military axle`s break just as easy as any dana 60. If you are running under 400hp, then I would stick with 35 spilne 60 70 the tera TRD60r housing. The only part of the dana 60 that my friend break`s, is the outer 30 spilne stub shaft. He is running a heavy international scout with dana 60`s and 42`s, and he has wheeled every hard trail in Colorado and moab. He has never broke his 35 spline rear axle`s.

[Scottb]

If you buy the smaller mog axle`s with different gear`s, they are about $12,000 a set new. That is with front disk and a choice of a few different gear`s.

[orangefj45]

who's talking new prices here?!

and i'd love to see a pic of a broken mog axle shaft. i've never seen one!

[Scottb]

I seen one on the Penrose trail`s here in Colorado last year, if I had pic`s, I would post them but I didn`t take any, because I had no camera. And used mog diff`s are not that easy to find. The full width one`s are way to big for alot of trail`s.

[helocat]

Rob,

Mogs.

These will one day be under my truck. I thought I was close to getting them but Metal Tech needed a fork lift so my mogs now are a propane powered 3000lbs lift truck. A state owned 406 just sold on line for $3K, almost complete just missing engine parts. The 406 mogs have disks OEM, nice. From what I understand the 406's are a bit lighter as well.

BTW: Did you get my voice mail about the 2nd owner FJ45LV?

Mark

[helocat]

Originally Posted by orangefj45

who's talking new prices here?!

and i'd love to see a pic of a broken mog axle shaft. i've never seen one!

Gorge,

Never heard of a Mog inner axel braking. I have seen a number of outer portal box housings blown. Makes since, due to them having the full 2x torque.

Mark

[orangefj45]

that's pretty much what i've seen. broken portal boxes due to the gears breaking, but no busted shafts.

[dclee]

Originally Posted by orangefj45

that's pretty much what i've seen. broken portal boxes due to the gears breaking, but no busted shafts.

1.5 ton axles (at least on the 404)... yummmm... Almost sold my 80 for an old 404, but couldn't handle 55 on the highway and wheeling without leather and A/C... ;-)

[DzlToy]

IT seems to me that there is a lot of misinformation in this thread and a lot of people acting like they are 8 years old with the name calling and such. I believe that the premise of this thread was simple. Should someone use a mog axle instead of a Dana 60 or 70 type axle? In order to answer the question or help the person decide information or points should be presented that mean something, supported by facts or ideas. Bullshiat and name calling dont help anyone build a rig or make a decision...I know that some of it is in fun, but if you want to do that crap go to PBB, they are full of it....

Now, someone asked about using a Toyota center section with mog outers. This has been done and is a good idea for several reasons. The toyota center sections can be had with a 3.54 RP, which is the same as the stock mog center. Because this RP is numerically low its much stronger than a regeared axle, like a 5.29 or 5.88. RP and other parts can also be cryo treated for additional durability and strength very cheaply. Now that many more aftermarket toy parts are available such as stronger inners and birfs, this center section is just about bulletproof. It also eliminates the need to do a pinion conversion on the mog axle and gains some driveline length as the toy pinion is shorter. The portal ends have been broken on 404 series, i have seen pics and one in person in a comp buggy. Never seen a 416 axle broken anywhere, but you have to run 20" wheels and the axles are heavier and more $$$. Maybe a HD toy birf, like longfields, etc could be used somehow in a mog end for added strength. dont know of anyone making aftermarket mog birfields yet. You also reduce, by using a portal, stresses and loads on individual parts, where in a dana type axle, adding strength usually means adding weight to an already heavy axle. Mogs are not light for sure, disc brakes will shave a good bit of weight though. Custom Dana 60s or similar can be 5k each with some nice quality parts. of course you can build cheaper with stock parts, but then you lose some strength as well, just like in a toy axle...dont think you would need to put huge money in a mog axle to make it suit your needs...

just my two euros worth

[orangefj45]

that's some good info but it's also one sided.
i doubt you'd be able to build a hybrid toy/mog axle for much less than a dana, and it would weigh about the same. the other option you did'nt discuss which has been done and is pretty popular is the "mog 9". by using a ford 9" center you can run ring and pinion ratios as low as 2.54:1 which ends up being an extremely strong gear set. only probelm with the hybrid axles is the added expense of custom axle housings and custom shafts (mostly 300m), so they get pretty pricey. running hybrids does allow you to play with the gear ratios, locker options and axle widths quite a bit. they also end up weighing less than a stock housing and 3rd member.
another real benefit to running portals that's vastly overshadowed by their huge benefit of the extra ground clearance is the fact that the portal gear reduction relieves the amount of stress put on all the components before it (axle shafts, ring/pinion/ u-joints, drive shafts, t-case,......) by roughly 50%. thus allowing you to run smaller, lighter components without having to sacrifice strength or durability.
one more benefit is the shallower pinion angle and therefor driveline angle. this makes for a longer driveshaft and u-joint service life and since they're up higher, they're less prone to smack a rock and get damaged.
i did a lot of research before deciding on which axles to use for my "cruggy" project and the mogs seemed the most sensible choice. can't get more "bang for your buck" then by going with mogs.
just my $.02 worth.

[KillerPea]

Originally Posted by orangefj45

and you'd have to change the t-case no matter which axles you go with.

Not true...the Cruiser case works fine with Volvo portals.

I think the obvious first question in this debate is what you are doing with the truck and what size tires you want to run??

Obviously, I am biased toward the Volvo's...but I do always carry a little concern over the strength that would be mostly gone with mogs. IMO...if you build light and drive reasonably Volvos are good for up to 42's. Mogs....much larger. So...depending on what you plan to do, how much clearance you really need for that, and what size tires you are planning to run.

The Volvo axles are more available than most guys know. There are already a few guys importing them and I know of one guy that will get them to the nearest port for around 3500. There are a few difficulties with them...but the clearance rules!!

Lastly...keep cracking on IFS and you may be suprised one day. Charles...I am betting that Walkers IFS rig would spank YOU anyday. We can't let pro rockcrawling make our final decision for what will work on our rigs.

[Rock Taxi]

I love the web and arguement threads.

Ed

[orangefj45]

is there a ready supply of spare parts for the volvo c303 axles over here yet? last i heard, it's a major bitch trying to find parts.

[KillerPea]

It kind of depends on what parts you need. Its kind of like the whole perception with finding parts for Cruisers. There are quite a few aftermarket parts available(axles, birfs, lockers) and quite a few interchange parts (seals, bearings) and quite a few part that you just don't need to replace (housings, r&p, etc).