Front and rear x-link in a 60-series cruiser ute.

[bustanutley]

the easiest way to figure it out is with the 4-link calculator I posted above

but it isn't too hard to understand, it is the point which the axle pivots around so:

if I am thinking correctly

a 3 link wishbone roll center is the pivot point on the wishbone frame.

a 4 link where only one set of links are triangulated, it is the point where those links converge.

a 4 link where both links are triangulated, I don't have an answer, my understanding is that it still gives you a high roll center, but it seams like it would have to be in between the two convergance points. I need to play with the calculator to understand this.

[OpTimuS]

I need Beer to understand this................

and still my setup will not be any of those listed above........

[bustanutley]

if you are doing an x-link, it is the essentially the same as a radius arm suspension without the binding, you will need a panhard, roll center is easy.

[CruisinFJ60]

Originally Posted by OpTimuS

And just so you know what I am trying to achieve.....

I plan on using coil-overs, and I want more flex than these pictures however I don't want mega flex because I do alot of high speed mud runnng also

im SUA and have more flex than that...

looks like that truck is too tho.

[OpTimuS]

My truck is SUA and it has fully standard suspension (except the 2 leaves I took out of each rar spring pack)

Because i am building a trailer queen I am considering my options.

[OpTimuS]

Originally Posted by OpTimuS

My truck is SUA and it has fully standard suspension (except the 2 leaves I took out of each rar spring pack)

Because i am building a trailer queen I am considering my options.

haha my options are as follows...... (thank-you bustanutley, mace, and anyone else that offered idea/ reasoning.)

Go with a triangulated 4-link.

Make a 'true' 3-link.

And I must say that I most likely go with the 'true' 3-link, something of the TG design, except use .500" wall instead of the recomended .250" wall 2" pipe and also make the upper and lower links longer.

(and as per another thread I threw up) I will most likely go with Fox 2.5" Air-shox.

[Mace]

TG is not the end all be all btw. Just because they designed somethign for a mini does not mean that it is the best solution for a 60.

A true 3 link I like for the front. In the rear, a doubly triangulated 4 link is pimp.. But I did a wishbone three link on my 60 that seems to be a very balanced suspension system (not much flex tho, still better than the rig you posted but..)

I looked at your build on TG's site.

If you are planning on running 2 sets of calipers on the front. You will need a custom master cylinder.. The 1" bore aint gonna cut it. Think of how much fluid you will have to move!

[OpTimuS]

hello again!

I realise that TG is not the be all and end all but what they offer allows me to buy a certain amount of suspension parts instead of fabricating all of them myself. Thus speding up my build.......... I am really sick of researching **** on the intermanet. But better off doing it first time round than rebuilding my creation in a couple of months.

Any way about the brakes.
I have e-mail wilwood and another ob of brake guys. I wanted to see what they could offer and basically this is what the brake guru's said:

On the road you NEED a short throw high-pressure MC. The MC must deliver maximum performance (which is derivitive of your effective disc ratio, and lever ratio) because you have a reliable sturdy braking platform (road-car), and you have a solid footing (asphalt). The harder the pedal and the shorter the throw the more feel you get, and the braking performance is increased to achieve a realistic goal.

Off-road (trail-rig) a 1" master cylinder will serve the purpose of a standard 80-series set-up (single pot rear, and quad pot fronts). By adding a further set of quad pot caliper I will effectively decrease system pressure for an idential pedal effort due to the pedal lever ratio not being altered. This means that you are correct Mace I will have a longer pedal throw. Anyway back to the facts: By increasing pedal effort (the amount I have to push on the pedal) I will have substantially more control and feel in an off-road scenario due to the more lever effort required.
If (as standard) I have 1" throw for 0% braking and 4" throw for 100% braking I may (no-one is quite sure, but brake techs said a 60% increase in throw length is more than reasonable). After adding the extra calipers I will have about 1" throw @ 0% and maybe 6 1/2" throw @ 100%.

I hope that all makes sense.

[Jonathan_Ferguson]

Originally Posted by OpTimuS

haha my options are as follows...... (thank-you bustanutley, mace, and anyone else that offered idea/ reasoning.)

Go with a triangulated 4-link.

Make a 'true' 3-link.

And I must say that I most likely go with the 'true' 3-link, something of the TG design, except use .500" wall instead of the recomended .250" wall 2" pipe and also make the upper and lower links longer.

(and as per another thread I threw up) I will most likely go with Fox 2.5" Air-shox.

[Mace]

Originally Posted by OpTimuS

hello again!

I realise that TG is not the be all and end all but what they offer allows me to buy a certain amount of suspension parts instead of fabricating all of them myself. Thus speding up my build.......... I am really sick of researching **** on the intermanet. But better off doing it first time round than rebuilding my creation in a couple of months.

Any way about the brakes.
I have e-mail wilwood and another ob of brake guys. I wanted to see what they could offer and basically this is what the brake guru's said:

On the road you NEED a short throw high-pressure MC. The MC must deliver maximum performance (which is derivitive of your effective disc ratio, and lever ratio) because you have a reliable sturdy braking platform (road-car), and you have a solid footing (asphalt). The harder the pedal and the shorter the throw the more feel you get, and the braking performance is increased to achieve a realistic goal.

Off-road (trail-rig) a 1" master cylinder will serve the purpose of a standard 80-series set-up (single pot rear, and quad pot fronts). By adding a further set of quad pot caliper I will effectively decrease system pressure for an idential pedal effort due to the pedal lever ratio not being altered. This means that you are correct Mace I will have a longer pedal throw. Anyway back to the facts: By increasing pedal effort (the amount I have to push on the pedal) I will have substantially more control and feel in an off-road scenario due to the more lever effort required.
If (as standard) I have 1" throw for 0% braking and 4" throw for 100% braking I may (no-one is quite sure, but brake techs said a 60% increase in throw length is more than reasonable). After adding the extra calipers I will have about 1" throw @ 0% and maybe 6 1/2" throw @ 100%.

I hope that all makes sense.

By the time you buy that kit and modify it to be what you need, it will be cheaper to fabricate it yourself..

Go try to maintain the rig on a steep hill with a second set of calipers and come back and chat with us..


Think of it another way. Off road you can EASILY lock up the tires (low frictional coefficient) why would additional calipers help?

[OpTimuS]

At this stage (slowly progressing with the plan of my rig) I have decided to look at using square home-made driveshafts instead of expensive lengthened standard ones. If I do that I will also be using Tom Wood's uni's and will not be able to achieve any sort of good speed (without getting my driveshaft's extremely well balanced), therefore I won't be using quad calipers due to it being extra weight and unneccessary.

This product I am trying to build, is slowly progressing forwards and evolving as do I over time.

And with the kit from TG I will only be buying some of the mounts and the JJ. the rest of the gear I can get over here in Oz and there is no need in paying freight on something I can get here at home. The kit just gives me approximate angles, lengths and ideas.

[MOTERRA]

yeah my stock 60 don't flex so well needs and upgrade...like the pickup truck conversion...i'm thinking of doing this to my 60 as the rear of the frame is totally rotten and getting in the way anyways...i've already cut the hatch and rear windows out.

my vote is to put a four bar in back and make the links with different attachment holes to move the bars up or down to change your anti squat and adjustable length bars for setting the axle track up easier..
basically a fully adjustable four link suspension...the clear winner IMO and you will never build another because you can adjust it at will.... my two Canadian pennies.

like the looks of that x link front crazy man...is there a x-kit down under or do you guys fab em up from scratch??

[OpTimuS]

There is a kit made here down under. I believe Dobbin Enginering make it.
Someguys however make their own.

As far as this idea goes however I have decided to use a 'true' 3-link i the front and rear of my 60.
I will be using 1.25" JJ and alloy links.
Once I get my are into gear I will be posting all of my hreads up here and also my locafoum.
Maybe you will come

Cheers for the input champ.

[mookie]

have you thought about just doing a spring over? you'll get a fairly nice increase in lift and articulation from it, and it's easy and cheap as dirt to do.....i really don't see why you would need 4-link if you hardly ever get into the rocks

ps. checked out the link to your buildup on darwin4x4, it's pretty cool to see a different perspective on how things are down under....you guys are hillarious and nuts.....and your enthusiasm is kinda contagious lol

[OpTimuS]

Originally Posted by mookie

have you thought about just doing a spring over? you'll get a fairly nice increase in lift and articulation from it, and it's easy and cheap as dirt to do.....i really don't see why you would need 4-link if you hardly ever get into the rocks

ps. checked out the link to your buildup on darwin4x4, it's pretty cool to see a different perspective on how things are down under....you guys are hillarious and nuts.....and your enthusiasm is kinda contagious lol

Hey there mookie.
I have considered a spring over but decided against it as I am not chasing extra height. And clearance (wheel to cab) is not smething I have to consider as I will be trimming the s%$t out of my outer gaurds and fabbing brand new inner alloy gaurds.I will also be raising the CoG already as I am going from 37 to 38.5" tyres. Also i only require 5" of up travel as that is all my 60 series has from standard so that is more than enough.
I do see that I will have more than enough articulation from my front and rear 3-links, as I only want more than a 60 series but I can see more articulation than an 80 series coming my way so I will be very happy.

My reasoning for a link setup is because it's not just the rocks where this setup will ecxell but also many other facets of 4-wheeling.


Last but not least; yes ther are some crazy characters down here. whoop whoop

[paulwolf350]

mate you could easily link it with nissan patrol gear, the chassis are close to the same width, i have used a complete nissan front under mine, and i am going to use a x link. they are 4 inch wider than stock 60 series and nearly bullet proof. I wouldnt re invent the wheel.

Paul

[Tapage]

Originally Posted by paulwolf350

mate you could easily link it with nissan patrol gear, the chassis are close to the same width, i have used a complete nissan front under mine, and i am going to use a x link. they are 4 inch wider than stock 60 series and nearly bullet proof. I wouldnt re invent the wheel.

Paul

If you are in Australia it's a great option for a tough axle .. but for the rest of the world little available aftermarket for those axles.