strongest crusier axle

crusier72 · 10-09-07, 07:14 PM

I'm looking to increase the strength of my rear cruiser axle. I run an 2F sm420 with a stock cruiser case for now but might go up to a dana 20 or 300.
I broke my rear diff that had a set of 4:11 fine splines and a lockright in it. The center pin exploded when I smoked the 37" IROK's and grabbed 2nd the gears survived.
I'm looking to replace the diff with something that can take my heavy foot and allow me to drive home. This is driven on the street so I'm shying away from a welded rear. The detroit sounds like a good upgrade but it's only a 3Pinion because of the C-clips and I'm worried it will self destruct if I brake an axle. Is the ARB the strongest choice in a rear cruiser axle.
Thanks

wngrog · 10-09-07, 08:27 PM

If you stick with a Cruiser case and a Cruiser rear axle, then a 4.11 fine spline 3rd with an ARB is a good choice. If you are just running around on the street though, leave it open and there is a lot less stress back there when you do clutch dumps.

The probelm is, there is really nothing south of the SM420 that will stand up to roasting 37s (which I find very hard to believe with a 2F and SM420 having owned and run said combo many times)

OK, if you are going to change the Tcase, the D300 is an upgrade, the D20 is not much of one.

If you go with either case, then a 9" axle will be a better choice than a Cruiser axle seeing that the output will then be centered. Above that, even a 31 spline 9" is stronger than a stock Crusier axle.

crusier72 · 10-09-07, 08:41 PM

This isn't where I broke but same day it gets wheeled and I like to hammer on it. So you think that an arb would be my best bet for a cruiser axle. Thanks

Mace · 10-09-07, 08:51 PM

ARB..

But honestly, I suspect that improper setup killed the center pin..

too tall · 10-09-07, 08:52 PM

I've been running detroits in the back of two of my rigs for years , Broken axles and driven out with the remaining one (other side held on by the rdb bracket) no issues ever with either of them . I beat on my junk pretty hard some days.

Tapage · 10-10-07, 11:31 AM

I thought a ARB it's definately and upgrade .. but I believe you first gonna broka an axle ( Poly performance in this case ) before a cross pin ..

Isotel · 10-10-07, 12:16 PM

Sounds like the center pin was worn (Common Issue with Lunchbox lockers)

I Love my D300, and i have a Centered Cruiser/Mini HyBrid rear Axle that is holding up good with my Fine Spline 4:11's and a Wrap Bar..

but a 9" will survive longer, especialy if you up size tires or go to a healthy V8

crusier72 · 10-10-07, 01:35 PM

What locker are you running Isotel?
My problem with lunchbox lockers in a cruiser case is that all the torque goes through a single pin even in double sheer I'd like to see more material to take the load when it's locked.

Isotel · 10-10-07, 02:14 PM

I run an Aussie in the rear, and a Lockright in front, Id love to upgrade to an ARB, but its working fine so far.. Ive run it for about a year.

Mbrantley · 10-10-07, 05:25 PM

Mark was trying to get up on a ledge when he had all four tires smoking with that stupid tractor motor

when he grabbed second the rear just kinda clunked and then stopped turning, very unimpressive

. When we pulled it apart it seemed that the center pin had sheared taking out the carrier. Would it have really mattered if the side gears & Drivers were or weren't shimmed properly? I never liked the idea of mixing a lock wrong with a single center pin and 37s.
Don't waist any time, effort, money on the offset rear when you still have a turd cruiser transfer case and you know you want to do front burns.
Would a trussed mini rear with a v6 carrier hold up? (Keep in mind that Mark's cruiser is not obese like many are)

Matt

bustanutley · 10-10-07, 11:53 PM

My buddy runs a custom rear axle that uses 35spline 6on5.5 shafts (stock convertion part from superior?) with a rear fj80 cruiser third and dana 60 side gears all in a diamond housing. So far it has been holding up very well to a lexus v8 and 44s the only are of concern is where the side gears are welded to the carrier.

PS I really dig your low ass cruiser that is cool!

crusier72 · 10-11-07, 08:27 AM

If I understand you correctly the dana60 side gears fit into the 80carrier and he welded them to the case to make it a welded rear end. That is a neat idea. Is the axle centered?
Mbrantly do you have any dana60 side gears or did you recycle them.
Thanks for the compliment the low cruiser is fun and stable.
Mark

Mace · 10-11-07, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbrantley

Mark was trying to get up on a ledge when he had all four tires smoking with that stupid tractor motor

when he grabbed second the rear just kinda clunked and then stopped turning, very unimpressive

. When we pulled it apart it seemed that the center pin had sheared taking out the carrier. Would it have really mattered if the side gears & Drivers were or weren't shimmed properly? I never liked the idea of mixing a lock wrong with a single center pin and 37s.
Don't waist any time, effort, money on the offset rear when you still have a turd cruiser transfer case and you know you want to do front burns.
Would a trussed mini rear with a v6 carrier hold up? (Keep in mind that Mark's cruiser is not obese like many are)

Matt

If it added extra stress because the center pin had to move further to actually engage the locker then yes..

V6 carrier nost likely will be no stronger.

If you weld to a cast ceter section IMHO you are creating as many problems as you are solving. Weld the cruiser axle solid (teeth to teeth only) and wheel the piss out of it.

If you are getting a new tcase that allows front dig. Then you will need entirely new axles anyway.. weld up a $50 third and go wheel..

lowtideride · 10-11-07, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mace

If it added extra stress because the center pin had to move further to actually engage the locker then yes..

V6 carrier nost likely will be no stronger.

If you weld to a cast ceter section IMHO you are creating as many problems as you are solving. Weld the cruiser axle solid (teeth to teeth only) and wheel the piss out of it.

If you are getting a new tcase that allows front dig. Then you will need entirely new axles anyway.. weld up a $50 third and go wheel..

So.. Welded Spider gears produce less stress than a lunch box locker ???(i.e. Aussie, Lock R)

Is that what you are saying?

Mace · 10-11-07, 09:09 AM

yep. At least stress on the center pin..

The center pin is captured and immobile with a welded rear. with an aussie, it has to move a bit to "engage" the locker. That is why the center pin opening is clam shaped in a lunchbox locker.

that being said, I would not worry about it if set up correctly with a good center pin...

bustanutley · 10-11-07, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crusier72

If I understand you correctly the dana60 side gears fit into the 80carrier and he welded them to the case to make it a welded rear end. That is a neat idea. Is the axle centered?
Mbrantly do you have any dana60 side gears or did you recycle them.
Thanks for the compliment the low cruiser is fun and stable.
Mark

Yeah that is what he did, but the side gears don’t just fit into the carrier he had to have it hogged out. He is trying to figure out a better way of having the gears connected to the carrier. If you want to see pictures there will be an article about his rear end in crawl sometime. The axle is centered

But if you aren’t breaking shafts I 100% agree with mace, welded-up spiders is a stronger setup. Lunchbox lockers rely on the strength of the carrier which sometimes has a lot to be desired. I have bent/deformed a carrier to the point where one side would no longer engage.

Mace · 10-11-07, 09:56 AM

you bent a cruiser carrier?

bustanutley · 10-11-07, 10:24 AM

yeah, when it went together everything was in spec, few years later, one day the locker stopped working, took it apart to find one side of the bastard was 8 thousandths difference side to side and things were not parallel. Put same locker into and new third and everything is good now

Mace · 10-11-07, 10:26 AM

You are the first person I have ever heard of doing that without something catastrophic happening to cause it...

Gumby · 10-11-07, 10:33 AM

Something to be said for he's the first person to NOTICE it before something catastrophic happened.

Mace · 10-11-07, 10:46 AM

Donno, it is still pretty rare..
Even with people not noticing things, how often do cruisers carriers fail?

rarely..

megolfer · 10-11-07, 11:13 AM

why not a custom axle with a spidtrex axle housing. This would give you a 9" center section with 1 ton full float kit.

10-09-07, 07:14 PM	#1
crusier72 IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 224	strongest crusier axle I'm looking to increase the strength of my rear cruiser axle. I run an 2F sm420 with a stock cruiser case for now but might go up to a dana 20 or 300. I broke my rear diff that had a set of 4:11 fine splines and a lockright in it. The center pin exploded when I smoked the 37" IROK's and grabbed 2nd the gears survived. I'm looking to replace the diff with something that can take my heavy foot and allow me to drive home. This is driven on the street so I'm shying away from a welded rear. The detroit sounds like a good upgrade but it's only a 3Pinion because of the C-clips and I'm worried it will self destruct if I brake an axle. Is the ARB the strongest choice in a rear cruiser axle. Thanks __________________ My ROTM http://forum.ih8mud.com/ma-nh-yankee-toys/169622-rotm-%7C%7C-august.html

10-09-07, 08:27 PM	#2
wngrog IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canton, Mississippi TLCA# 8121 Posts: 2,505	If you stick with a Cruiser case and a Cruiser rear axle, then a 4.11 fine spline 3rd with an ARB is a good choice. If you are just running around on the street though, leave it open and there is a lot less stress back there when you do clutch dumps. The probelm is, there is really nothing south of the SM420 that will stand up to roasting 37s (which I find very hard to believe with a 2F and SM420 having owned and run said combo many times) OK, if you are going to change the Tcase, the D300 is an upgrade, the D20 is not much of one. If you go with either case, then a 9" axle will be a better choice than a Cruiser axle seeing that the output will then be centered. Above that, even a 31 spline 9" is stronger than a stock Crusier axle. __________________ Rock Midget Motorsports www.rockmidget.com 2009 Calendars at www.rockmidget.com

10-09-07, 08:41 PM	#3
crusier72 IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 224	This isn't where I broke but same day it gets wheeled and I like to hammer on it. So you think that an arb would be my best bet for a cruiser axle. Thanks Attached Images __________________ My ROTM http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=169622

10-09-07, 08:51 PM	#4
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,965	ARB.. But honestly, I suspect that improper setup killed the center pin.. __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

10-09-07, 08:52 PM	#5
too tall IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 680	I've been running detroits in the back of two of my rigs for years , Broken axles and driven out with the remaining one (other side held on by the rdb bracket) no issues ever with either of them . I beat on my junk pretty hard some days. __________________ 1977 fj40 1985 bj60 1978 fj40 1976 fj45 in pieces 1974 fj40 Too many if you ask my wife , Never enough for me !

10-10-07, 12:16 PM	#7
Isotel IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Crawlorado.com TLCA# 16898 Posts: 2,954	Sounds like the center pin was worn (Common Issue with Lunchbox lockers) I Love my D300, and i have a Centered Cruiser/Mini HyBrid rear Axle that is holding up good with my Fine Spline 4:11's and a Wrap Bar.. but a 9" will survive longer, especialy if you up size tires or go to a healthy V8 __________________ 1976 FJ40 TBI350 700R4 D300 SOA Locked 37" PBR's Protected by REDLINE Colorado Land Cruisers - Club Redline Land Cruisers - Safety First CrAwLoRadO.com - Just Check it out

10-10-07, 01:35 PM	#8
crusier72 IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 224	What locker are you running Isotel? My problem with lunchbox lockers in a cruiser case is that all the torque goes through a single pin even in double sheer I'd like to see more material to take the load when it's locked. __________________ My ROTM http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=169622

10-10-07, 02:14 PM	#9
Isotel IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Crawlorado.com TLCA# 16898 Posts: 2,954	I run an Aussie in the rear, and a Lockright in front, Id love to upgrade to an ARB, but its working fine so far.. Ive run it for about a year. __________________ 1976 FJ40 TBI350 700R4 D300 SOA Locked 37" PBR's Protected by REDLINE Colorado Land Cruisers - Club Redline Land Cruisers - Safety First CrAwLoRadO.com - Just Check it out

10-10-07, 05:25 PM	#10
Mbrantley IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ellington CT Posts: 66	Mark was trying to get up on a ledge when he had all four tires smoking with that stupid tractor motor when he grabbed second the rear just kinda clunked and then stopped turning, very unimpressive. When we pulled it apart it seemed that the center pin had sheared taking out the carrier. Would it have really mattered if the side gears & Drivers were or weren't shimmed properly? I never liked the idea of mixing a lock wrong with a single center pin and 37s. Don't waist any time, effort, money on the offset rear when you still have a turd cruiser transfer case and you know you want to do front burns. Would a trussed mini rear with a v6 carrier hold up? (Keep in mind that Mark's cruiser is not obese like many are) Matt __________________ Tube buggy on 42s - For Sale - 85' runner on 35s http://forum.ih8mud.com/vehicles-tra...5-4runner.html

10-10-07, 11:53 PM	#11
bustanutley IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: CrAwLoRaDo Posts: 1,527	My buddy runs a custom rear axle that uses 35spline 6on5.5 shafts (stock convertion part from superior?) with a rear fj80 cruiser third and dana 60 side gears all in a diamond housing. So far it has been holding up very well to a lexus v8 and 44s the only are of concern is where the side gears are welded to the carrier. PS I really dig your low ass cruiser that is cool! __________________ FJ-40 on FO-DEEs just a lil guy HOMEGROWN Last edited by bustanutley; 10-11-07 at 12:00 AM.

10-11-07, 08:27 AM	#12
crusier72 IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 224	If I understand you correctly the dana60 side gears fit into the 80carrier and he welded them to the case to make it a welded rear end. That is a neat idea. Is the axle centered? Mbrantly do you have any dana60 side gears or did you recycle them. Thanks for the compliment the low cruiser is fun and stable. Mark __________________ My ROTM http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=169622

10-11-07, 09:09 AM	#15
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,965	yep. At least stress on the center pin.. The center pin is captured and immobile with a welded rear. with an aussie, it has to move a bit to "engage" the locker. That is why the center pin opening is clam shaped in a lunchbox locker. that being said, I would not worry about it if set up correctly with a good center pin... __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

10-11-07, 09:56 AM	#17
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,965	you bent a cruiser carrier? __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

10-11-07, 10:24 AM	#18
bustanutley IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: CrAwLoRaDo Posts: 1,527	yeah, when it went together everything was in spec, few years later, one day the locker stopped working, took it apart to find one side of the bastard was 8 thousandths difference side to side and things were not parallel. Put same locker into and new third and everything is good now __________________ FJ-40 on FO-DEEs just a lil guy HOMEGROWN

10-11-07, 10:26 AM	#19
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,965	You are the first person I have ever heard of doing that without something catastrophic happening to cause it... __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

10-11-07, 10:33 AM	#20
Gumby Former Wheeler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Knee deep in hookers and gin TLCA# 5658 Posts: 4,965	Something to be said for he's the first person to NOTICE it before something catastrophic happened. __________________ War Pig and Cerdito "Don't you know, Stan, it's *always* between a Giant Douche and a Turd Sandwich."

10-11-07, 10:46 AM	#21
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,965	Donno, it is still pretty rare.. Even with people not noticing things, how often do cruisers carriers fail? rarely.. __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

10-11-07, 11:13 AM	#22
megolfer IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 826	why not a custom axle with a spidtrex axle housing. This would give you a 9" center section with 1 ton full float kit. __________________ www.tlca.org President-Central Valley Crawlers www.centralvalleycrawlers.org www.marlincrawler.com

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