Cruiser tranny doubler question

Radd Cruisers · 08-28-07, 09:36 AM

Buddy next door sells a unit called the black box, he wants to hook it up to a toyota tranny, so far he thinks it will only add about 5 inches to the total length of the tranny transfercase length.

What he is wondering which is the best suit years or cruiser tranny and spline counts.?

Ultimatly what is going to sell the most.

The black box already hooks up to a multitude of tcases and trannies.

www.northwestfab.com if you want to see the unit.

Rob

BELMONT148 · 08-28-07, 10:42 AM

H41/H42 4 speed trannys are the most popular. They come in two output spline variaties. 16 and 19 spline output

H55f 5 speeds are next. 19 spline output.

If he made it to fit the 80 series rigs, probably a large group of buyers there. I don't believe they have any options for lower gearing yet. These rigs were built from 91-97. Someone from the 80 group will have more info.

Jeremy

Mace · 08-28-07, 10:57 AM

"Length: At only 7.5" long the Black Box saves length, and leads to better driveshaft angles over longer dual transfer case options."

So how does a 7.5" long reduction box only add 5" to the drivetrain??

Most likely the 19 spline output and the 19 spline "split" tcase would be the best units.. But the 16 spline units would sell too (and be more likely to snap the tcase in half..)

alkaline747trio · 08-28-07, 12:01 PM

As an 80 series guy, I would definitely buy this box in a heartbeat. There are 3 different 80 series autos, 2 have identical outputs for sure, and one COULD be different or they could all 3 be the same. I'm sure an 80 series guy would volunteer his rig for testing, and it would be AWESOME if it didnt require any floor mods.

Radd Cruisers · 08-28-07, 12:56 PM

The ideas are just being thrown around, the 5 to 6 inch box was a guess last night when he was doing a moch up. New housing design for the cruiser.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mace

"Length: At only 7.5" long the Black Box saves length, and leads to better driveshaft angles over longer dual transfer case options."

So how does a 7.5" long reduction box only add 5" to the drivetrain??

Most likely the 19 spline output and the 19 spline "split" tcase would be the best units.. But the 16 spline units would sell too (and be more likely to snap the tcase in half..)

Radd Cruisers · 08-28-07, 01:01 PM

Looking at the 80 series stuff, not sure how hard it would be....... but its something Kyle is thinking about doing something.

Rob

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

As an 80 series guy, I would definitely buy this box in a heartbeat. There are 3 different 80 series autos, 2 have identical outputs for sure, and one COULD be different or they could all 3 be the same. I'm sure an 80 series guy would volunteer his rig for testing, and it would be AWESOME if it didnt require any floor mods.

Tapage · 08-28-07, 03:32 PM

It would be a nice upgrade for 80 series ( coz they don't have the Underdrive options for T-case as " same " range price ) most if you considere the 7.5" lenght are not a real issue in the 80 or 60 series LWB ..

Only to deal with DS and the tranny cross member ..

Dusty · 08-28-07, 05:54 PM

I will buy one right now for my 80. sold

chibo · 08-28-07, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusty

I will buy one right now for my 80. sold

I concur.

Radd Cruisers · 08-29-07, 12:27 PM

Anybody got a spare 80 series I can borrow......

LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tapage

It would be a nice upgrade for 80 series ( coz they don't have the Underdrive options for T-case as " same " range price ) most if you considere the 7.5" lenght are not a real issue in the 80 or 60 series LWB ..

Only to deal with DS and the tranny cross member ..

Gumby · 08-29-07, 04:09 PM

$1600?

That's twice the price of a NP203 doubler. The NP203 is heavy and hangs down low, but it's cheap and tough. You get 2.78 over 2.0:1 with the black box, but ...

I'd rather spend the dough on an Orion 4.0:1 behind my NP203. I <3 4 speed x-fers.

Of course, that's a guy with plenty of wheelbase and a lot of trans/transfer options as well. YMMV if you have a 40 or 80.

Dusty · 08-29-07, 04:43 PM

I just got off the phone with kyle from northwest fab. he said they are very open to performing the needed machining to mate the black box to the 80 series. When I spoke with him he was even aware of the lack of options for the 80 and understands the niche he could fill. He was also aware of the gas tank issue. They had an 80 in the shop till recently its gone and they need a tcase/trany mule for fiment. he is willing to pay up to $100 to have a trashed tranny and tcase sent to him for fitment.

his email is

info@northwestfab.com

phone is
250-248-6024

I'm talking the 343

I am moving this info to 80 forum

Radd Cruisers · 08-29-07, 05:04 PM

[

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby

$1600?

That's twice the price of a NP203 doubler. The NP203 is heavy and hangs down low, but it's cheap and tough. You get 2.78 over 2.0:1 with the black box, but ...

I'd rather spend the dough on an Orion 4.0:1 behind my NP203. I <3 4 speed x-fers.

Of course, that's a guy with plenty of wheelbase and a lot of trans/transfer options as well. YMMV if you have a 40 or 80.

You've got it assbackwards.

203, 2:1 low range NOT 2.78.

BlackBox, Strong, 5500ft-lbs torque rated, Lower Low Range, Less than half the weight of the 203 /w 2.72 low range.

The blackBox is 40% deeper low range than a 203 range box.

Gumby · 08-30-07, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radd Cruisers

[

You've got it assbackwards.

203, 2:1 low range NOT 2.78.

BlackBox, Strong, 5500ft-lbs torque rated, Lower Low Range, Less than half the weight of the 203 /w 2.72 low range.

The blackBox is 40% deeper low range than a 203 range box.

I think you just misunderstood what I meant. I know that the 203 has a 2:1, I have one, and I could read what the blackbox has on the webiste.

I think it's a fine deal if you got the money or a lack of other options. It'd be great in the 80.

I think the 19 spline is the way to go for the earlier trucks, then again AA doesn't even sell a doubler kit for the 19 splines, only for the 10 and 16 splines. I don't know if they don't see the market for the 60 series x-fers, or if it's because another guy sells them.

10 also gives you the option of running a SM465.

Medusa · 08-30-07, 08:49 AM

This planetary box looks very much like the Klune-V which is already marketed for Land Cruisers with both 16- and 19-spline counts. The Klune is also available in a 4:1 ratio. Can you specifically address the advantages (e.g., strength, cost, etc.) of the BlackBox over the Klune, instead of the NP203?

Radd Cruisers · 08-30-07, 03:26 PM

My computer was hi jacked, I will get Kyle to address the question.

Rob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medusa

This planetary box looks very much like the Klune-V which is already marketed for Land Cruisers with both 16- and 19-spline counts. The Klune is also available in a 4:1 ratio. Can you specifically address the advantages (e.g., strength, cost, etc.) of the BlackBox over the Klune, instead of the NP203?

Tapage · 08-30-07, 04:05 PM

But how much cost the KlunV .?

Gumby · 08-30-07, 05:33 PM

Klune's website has most of the info except price. A google search has it looking like about a $2600 price.

CreeperSleeper · 08-30-07, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radd Cruisers

Anybody got a spare 80 series I can borrow......

LOL

Come and get it!

CreeperSleeper · 08-30-07, 06:13 PM

I emailed Kyle and asked him if he would like to use my 80 as a test-bed. It is currently sitting with a broken birf, so I won't be driving/wheeling it any time soon...

NorthWestFab · 08-31-07, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medusa

This planetary box looks very much like the Klune-V which is already marketed for Land Cruisers with both 16- and 19-spline counts. The Klune is also available in a 4:1 ratio. Can you specifically address the advantages (e.g., strength, cost, etc.) of the BlackBox over the Klune, instead of the NP203?

Thanks for your interest.

The BlackBox works using a similar planetary gear concept as the Klune, but there are some specific differences.

The BlackBox Planetaries are made by New Venture Gear. We source the planetaries that are used in Super Duty and 2.5Ton Trucks. They are torque rated to 5500ft-lbs.

We finish our Blackbox with a Hard Anodized Black Finish, this is highly resistant to scratching and corrosion.

As you can see in our crosssection, the Black Box uses a large 80mm ball bearing at both the input and output. This controls any shaft deflection and endplay is set from the factory.

Klune does not use an output support bearing. The mainshaft is supported only at the nose of the shaft, and by the splines of the input of the transfer case behind it. Also, endplay must be set by the user, which leaves a significant margin of error, and failure if endplay is not set correctly.

Klune's "David' model that uses a 4:1 uses planetaries manufactured offshore for Tera Mfg. This uses a 'two stage planetary' that is pressed together. If the two halves of the gear are not pressed within 0.0001" when they are loaded up, the gears will not load evenly and WILL fail. consistantly aligning two pressed components to this spec is not realisitc. New Venture did in-house test with two stage gear, and for this reason were never used in any of their transfer cases.

As far as cost, the Black Box retails for $1599. I have not seen a Klune priced at a level this competitive.

-Kyle
NWF

Tapage · 08-31-07, 11:43 AM

Thanks for your time and explanation Kyle .. the price looks pretty well IMOP !

brokenparts · 08-31-07, 11:48 AM

damn, that's sexy....

Rigpig · 08-31-07, 12:21 PM

...i've got my name on one of them!!!...

Mace · 08-31-07, 01:39 PM

So it uses the NV271 planetary gearset..

6 pinion planetary right?

Dusty · 08-31-07, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthWestFab

Klune does not use an output support bearing. The mainshaft is supported only at the nose of the shaft, and by the splines of the input of the transfer case behind it. Also, endplay must be set by the user, which leaves a significant margin of error, and failure if endplay is not set correctly.

Klune's "David' model that uses a 4:1 uses planetaries manufactured offshore for Tera Mfg. This uses a 'two stage planetary' that is pressed together. If the two halves of the gear are not pressed within 0.0001" when they are loaded up, the gears will not load evenly and WILL fail. consistantly aligning two pressed components to this spec is not realisitc. New Venture did in-house test with two stage gear, and for this reason were never used in any of their transfer cases.
NWF

couple of months ago I spoke on the phone with the owner of klunev after coresponding via email with him. he actually has a 93 fzj80 and loves it. he basically said that he doesn't have the time now to investigate an option for the 80. He said that he had

08-28-07, 09:36 AM	#1
Radd Cruisers IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 3,672	Cruiser tranny doubler question Buddy next door sells a unit called the black box, he wants to hook it up to a toyota tranny, so far he thinks it will only add about 5 inches to the total length of the tranny transfercase length. What he is wondering which is the best suit years or cruiser tranny and spline counts.? Ultimatly what is going to sell the most. The black box already hooks up to a multitude of tcases and trannies. www.northwestfab.com if you want to see the unit. Rob __________________ Check out our new location in Duncan, BC www.raddcruisers.ca --> 60 Series Cable Lockers available - 4.11s or 3.70s - all hardware included --> 12HT & H55F combos available - complete & running Limited Quantities - Deposit or Full Payment Required to hold your order while they ship

08-28-07, 10:42 AM	#2
BELMONT148 IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Mt. Pleasant and Myrtle Beach, SC TLCA# 16668 Posts: 1,641	H41/H42 4 speed trannys are the most popular. They come in two output spline variaties. 16 and 19 spline output H55f 5 speeds are next. 19 spline output. If he made it to fit the 80 series rigs, probably a large group of buyers there. I don't believe they have any options for lower gearing yet. These rigs were built from 91-97. Someone from the 80 group will have more info. Jeremy __________________ Project Evelyn 71' FJ40 W/ 78 2F, 4 speed Tranny & Transfer SOA, 38" TSL's, 4W discs

08-28-07, 10:57 AM	#3
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,984	"Length: At only 7.5" long the Black Box saves length, and leads to better driveshaft angles over longer dual transfer case options." So how does a 7.5" long reduction box only add 5" to the drivetrain?? Most likely the 19 spline output and the 19 spline "split" tcase would be the best units.. But the 16 spline units would sell too (and be more likely to snap the tcase in half..) __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

08-28-07, 12:01 PM	#4
alkaline747trio Young and Dumb apparently Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Blacksburg VA or Albemarle NC Posts: 3,827	As an 80 series guy, I would definitely buy this box in a heartbeat. There are 3 different 80 series autos, 2 have identical outputs for sure, and one COULD be different or they could all 3 be the same. I'm sure an 80 series guy would volunteer his rig for testing, and it would be AWESOME if it didnt require any floor mods. __________________ '92 - 3FE POWER'D! -- Slee 6"/OME 863J, Pro-Comp 14" ES3000/N74L, Gen. 2 Slee Front Control Arms, T-G Sliders, Ext. Diff. Breathers, Slee SS Brake Lines, 5.29s, Aussie Locker'd rear, 35" TrXus STS Street/38.5x11 Boggers Trail, 180k. '85 Honda Accord - 55MPG!!! -- No air filter, Custom Burple (blue and purple) Paint. Upstate Cruisers

08-28-07, 05:54 PM	#8
Dusty IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,490	I will buy one right now for my 80. sold __________________ 97lx450 4" slee/j's, sliders, bumpers, 3" exhaust, custom turbo, HG pm/Valve job/seals, sweet custom skid plate, Sleeoffroad parts, Buys oe parts from Cruiser Dan used to have 37" swampers.. 1 tons and 42's pending..... Budget Blown 98 100 series. rear locker. 2008 6.7L dodge 2500 quad cab

08-29-07, 04:09 PM	#11
Gumby Former Wheeler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Knee deep in hookers and gin TLCA# 5658 Posts: 4,968	$1600? That's twice the price of a NP203 doubler. The NP203 is heavy and hangs down low, but it's cheap and tough. You get 2.78 over 2.0:1 with the black box, but ... I'd rather spend the dough on an Orion 4.0:1 behind my NP203. I <3 4 speed x-fers. Of course, that's a guy with plenty of wheelbase and a lot of trans/transfer options as well. YMMV if you have a 40 or 80. __________________ War Pig and Cerdito "Don't you know, Stan, it's *always* between a Giant Douche and a Turd Sandwich."

08-29-07, 04:43 PM	#12
Dusty IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,490	I just got off the phone with kyle from northwest fab. he said they are very open to performing the needed machining to mate the black box to the 80 series. When I spoke with him he was even aware of the lack of options for the 80 and understands the niche he could fill. He was also aware of the gas tank issue. They had an 80 in the shop till recently its gone and they need a tcase/trany mule for fiment. he is willing to pay up to $100 to have a trashed tranny and tcase sent to him for fitment. his email is info@northwestfab.com phone is 250-248-6024 I'm talking the 343 I am moving this info to 80 forum __________________ 97lx450 4" slee/j's, sliders, bumpers, 3" exhaust, custom turbo, HG pm/Valve job/seals, sweet custom skid plate, Sleeoffroad parts, Buys oe parts from Cruiser Dan used to have 37" swampers.. 1 tons and 42's pending..... Budget Blown 98 100 series. rear locker. 2008 6.7L dodge 2500 quad cab

08-30-07, 08:49 AM	#15
Medusa IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 361	This planetary box looks very much like the Klune-V which is already marketed for Land Cruisers with both 16- and 19-spline counts. The Klune is also available in a 4:1 ratio. Can you specifically address the advantages (e.g., strength, cost, etc.) of the BlackBox over the Klune, instead of the NP203? __________________ Got Rice?

08-30-07, 05:33 PM	#18
Gumby Former Wheeler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Knee deep in hookers and gin TLCA# 5658 Posts: 4,968	Klune's website has most of the info except price. A google search has it looking like about a $2600 price. __________________ War Pig and Cerdito "Don't you know, Stan, it's *always* between a Giant Douche and a Turd Sandwich."

08-31-07, 11:48 AM	#23
brokenparts IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Hillsboro, OR TLCA# 16127 Posts: 2,354	damn, that's sexy.... __________________ "Just bump it" I am offended by reality all the time. http://www.cascadecruisers.com/ http://www.myspace.com/zachsu ROTW: http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/198064-rotw-brokenparts-fj-60-a.html

08-31-07, 12:21 PM	#24
Rigpig IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island...Stuck in Fort Mac. Posts: 198	...i've got my name on one of them!!!...

08-31-07, 01:39 PM	#25
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,984	So it uses the NV271 planetary gearset.. 6 pinion planetary right? __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."