Ford V8 in FJ80????

alkaline747trio · 07-16-07, 09:52 PM

Low-down:

Have a 351W in great shape, but in a running vehicle that gets plenty of use but will probably be ready for decommission in a year or two. Can get 3 different 390s, all in good working condition, one complete with tranny and transfercase (not sure which though). And have a lead on a pair of 460s, possibly working in vehicles.

I want to drop one of these in my FJ80. It's a multi-use vehicle, will be running beefed up stock axles or Volvo-portals. I can get an adapter to run the 351W against my stock running gear. For the big blocks I'm not sure if I can get the desired transmission/t-case. If I stay stock I will get my A440 rebuilt with the extreme valvebody done and lower t-case gears or an Orion if it comes out.

I know Ford engines, all I've ever been around. I dont want GM stuff, and I don't want diesel. I am considering 2F block under a worked 3FE head. I don't think I want fuel injection, although if it will be easy to incorporate I may consider it (none of the engines I can get come with factory FI). I'm lost on transmission/t-case combos that wont require me to shorten my front driveshaft and will still let me use my factory rear axle.

Heres the thread I started in 80's tech in case I left anything out. http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/166483-ford-v8-351-390-460-a.html

agent orange · 07-17-07, 06:58 PM

Carbs suck for wheeling, i would never intentionally build something with one.

That being said, adapting fuel injection to a motor that didnt come with it would add a good bit to your budget.

I think a 460 will bolt up to the same tranny that a 351 will (c6) so if you can find adapters from a c6 to a cruisswaaaq case then youd be good with either one.

agent orange · 07-17-07, 07:14 PM

Also, a 460 would be completely unnecessary to me. There is a guy in VA with a built 396 in his 40 and he blows pinions about everytime he goes out. Of course if you can actually afford portals then screw it, just go hammer down and throw a new third in every couple months.

alkaline747trio · 07-17-07, 09:18 PM

If I'm gonna build it, I'm not going to build it with a failure point, all of it is going to have to work together and be logan proof.

I need to read up on FI for the 351, I know it was offered on some years but I dont know if it can be bought and installed on an engine without it, and how much trouble it will be to retrofit it.

I also can't decide if a worked A440 wouldn't work just as well as a C4/C6 tranny. Both require an adapter, either engine to tranny or tranny to t-case for me to not have to mod my gas tank and to use stock or Volvo axles. Either one I will rebuild and do some VB work to, although the cost of rebuilding the C4/6 is probably way less than the A440 work. I'm probably going with a new t-case both routes, either a FJ60 case with a reduction box or an Orion for an 80 if they come out.

I need to check the Aussie 4wd monthly site and see if anyone else has done the Ford V8 in an 80 or 105.

Mace · 07-17-07, 09:46 PM

my 60 has a 302 (warmed over) to a c6/203/split tcase..

Works great in the driveway

alkaline747trio · 07-17-07, 10:22 PM

What about Humm9s? Who can I get them from, and could they be made to work in PS offset configuration?

Mace · 07-17-07, 10:50 PM

you are adding complexity that is not readily repaired anywhere..

CreeperSleeper · 07-18-07, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mace

you are adding complexity that is not readily repaired anywhere..

x2 K.I.S.S. applies here!

71-CRUISER · 07-18-07, 04:56 PM

you can run a Mustang EFI on a 351W with no problems (my next mod). All you have to do is buy a 351 manifold from Edelbrock.

Mace · 07-18-07, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 71-CRUISER

you can run a Mustang EFI on a 351W with no problems (my next mod). All you have to do is buy a 351 manifold from Edelbrock.

Yeap... Course, if you are going for it, Twisted wedge heads and intake

CreeperSleeper · 07-18-07, 05:17 PM

Or just be smart and start with a SBC!!!

(okay, Im done...)

alkaline747trio · 07-18-07, 08:12 PM

Well, I found a EFI 351W out of an older F250. It runs, or seems to, could use rebuilding. I really don't think I will go all out with building this. What kind of numbers would I be looking at with the factory head worked and a torquer cam, and possibly a better intake.

Mace · 07-18-07, 09:56 PM

easily 250 hp.. carb or fuel injection?

You will move the 80 series well..

71-CRUISER · 07-19-07, 06:30 AM

The truck EFI will likely be to tall to fit under the hood hence the Mustang setup. I got a pair of E7 (Mustang) take off heads off of e-bay for cheap and bolted them to a earily (75?) 351w. The later model heads eliminate the cast rockers as well as flow better than the non DOOA heads. The beauty of a 351w is that anything that will bolt to a 302 will swap directly over except the lower intake and dizzy.

alkaline747trio · 07-19-07, 04:34 PM

I'm gonna be shooting for the EFI and I'm hoping for around 300 horses. What do I need to get 300 ponies out of an EFI 351W, and then again if'n EFI is too hard for me, what about for a carb'd 351W?

Mace · 07-19-07, 04:53 PM

cam, good heads/intake exhaust. It is fairly easy actually..

CRZA1 · 07-19-07, 04:53 PM

A good resource for the for efi stuff you want to use on a sbf would be classicbroncos.com I have used the mustang stuff on a 302 in my eb and if was very easy to do. There are alot of guys who run 351's with the mustang efi. Also a lot of general ford efi knowledge on the site. All I know is efi not anything about 80 series TLC.

tntoyota · 07-20-07, 08:54 PM

I think your trading down if it aint Toy..............

That said I'm a Toy 1st Chevy 2nd But being as though I've tryed to kill one at first I said 300, 6 then thought about it and I'll retract that.................

As far as tanns I like the one rated at 12,000 my self I think "because I can get it" is a setup for future headaches I'd RE-eval what I got.

High comp pistons (9:1

)would kill, then youd be done MO, then bingo your carb, tranny, exhoust, wiring problems would be solved, again MHO.

You also got OD so stroker

is also a great posability.

Alright after the tenth time I tryed to link the damn search: search mud for 2fe, I guess that everytime some one posts the link changes FAWK!!!!!

Search: 2fe

Its easy (to me) to find a 2f EZ mod 2 me

WHAT ARE YOU BUILDING IT FOR?..........

1: Volvos dont need gobs of power.

2: is ANY FORD as relyable as a Toyota,

3: that you are already set up for?

Just trying to help, MHO,

Jiminy

Hank · 07-21-07, 09:21 AM

351w & 460 DO NOT bolt up to the same trans. Carburation is nuts in a vehicle already equipped with FI. Toyota in tank fuel pumps do not have enough poop to run a mustang 302 efi system a boost pump is needed. A truck 351 efi system will not fit under the hood if you clear the diff as already stated. A 4.6l car motor or a 302 Exploder motor with the gt40 style heads would fit. They can be reliable, your machining and attention to wiring and detail will determine if you can get an OE install. IMHO the 80 is to heavy for a deuce, not enough torque available for a reasonable amount of money. The inefficiency of the 351 is worse than my 62 with a stock motor which makes it a poor option in my opinion. I also think putting in a C4 is out of the question with the weight of the truck, a c6 is foolish, why give up overdrive. Personally, I'd go with a newer yota V8. However, I did the math and measurements and research for a 4 runner a couple years ago. Rustang 302, 700r4, stock yota case with or without a crawlbox. Cost effective, reliable, durable and the extra gears of the crawl box would make up for the shortness of the 302 grunt. All adapters are readily available and mounts would all be made easily.

redstang410 · 07-22-07, 10:45 PM

I brainstormed this combo for my 80 once.
I came up with this setup.
302 from a mustang. Stock came with 225 HP and real torquey midrange . Also smaller and lighter than a 351 or a big block.
More aftermarket than you could dream of.

Ranger box overdrive or underdrive attached to a h55 5 speed 70 series trannywith splitcase transfer. Also with PTO for my winch. The ranger box bolts up to the ford bellhousing. and bolts up to the tranny. It also lengthens the tranny so the shifter won't end up under the dash.

Transfer the factory senders so your guages work. Haven't figured out how to get the stock tach to read correctly though..

Piece of cake right???

Now, if you really wan't and automatic, I'd do the AOD 4 speed. And try to fit a divorced NP 200 transfercase.
Not sure if it would fit though, and the low range isn't that great either.

I only need to get the ranger box to do the swap, But my 80 runs real good with its diesel engine still. So I'll probably wait a few years till it craps out, or some one buys the engine from me.

lowtideride · 07-23-07, 07:44 AM

I would ditch swapping engines.

and move into a second case.

h55/4.7toy box/60 series case.

HP is not needed for wheeling brotha....unless you like driving fast to the trails

alkaline747trio · 07-23-07, 07:21 PM

I want auto...and I want more power for the places in between and just horsing around. I want a truck that can take a beating everywhere, and have more power than I need (I'm sick and tired of lack of power).

lowtideride · 07-23-07, 07:34 PM

Get rid of the auto then

Dropping that lets the 3fe roar.

plus silly gearing will bring more control than an auto will, especially down hill

Edit: are you even geared?

alkaline747trio · 07-23-07, 09:26 PM

Nope, but I figure I should wait to regear for when I want to lock the front. And I figure if I'm gonna lock the front I might as well replace the birfs with longs and go chromo inners. And hell, if I'm doing that I might as well go portals. And if I'm going portals, I might as well go 3-link. And if I'm 3-linking, why not go ahead and do coil-overs.

I'm looking for some cheap used 4.88s or 5.29s, but I just hate to spend money on locking, gearing, and beefing my stock axles, when I could probably save that money, sell my axles as is, and pay for portals.

Plus I can get the engines so damn cheap...and I have decided that I would take the 351w out of my F-150 and put it in the LC, and take an 390 or 460 and throw it in the F-150. Use stock toy stuff and go with whatever crawler choice seems best at the time.

Although I could also just beef, lock, and regear my stock axles and probably do everything I want to do, maybe add a crawler solution. Maybe turbo and/or 2F block the 3FE....ugh.

I just hate selling myself short on a mod, and wishing I had done the next step up instead.

lowtideride · 07-24-07, 07:32 AM

Portals are cool. I just dont think you are there yet. Plus you wont get much for the 80 series axles you have now. The cruiser axles can take a hell of a beating. If Action Jackson can wheel his 80 on 40s, I am willing to bet you will be a-ok.

You need gearing first and for most for a rock crawler. The 3fe has plenty of low end. First fix your gearing problem first. You have been listening to those 1fz freaks nock the 3fe long enough that it has finally gotten to you.

You have a much better platform with the 3fe then an 80 with a 1fz.
Do you have any idea the choices you have to the gearing that bolts up behind that thing? There are so many adapters out its not funny. Get a 85-87 bellhousing from a fj60 that is stamped 3F and your golden. an h42,h55 can easly be bolted right up. Plus the load of adapters out there that can have you behind an assload of other auto trannys and Sm465s,420s...etcetc.

Without gearing of coarse you 3fe is going to feel slugish. Even with 5.29s and an auto you will get some grunt back.

Just because you can get an engine cheap doesnt mean its a good idea. I think you should fix the problems you have now, get the gearing you need and once you have figured that out, maybe work on 3linking the front for more flex...

I think you you are getting a bit ahead of yourself. Dont be afraid to pop your first cherry and destroy a birf or two and move on to chromos...

tntoyota · 07-24-07, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

Plus I can get the engines so damn cheap...

Then sell'em use the money to help finance portals, 3 link, etc.

that would be the best mod

(not putting a ford in it)

alkaline747trio · 07-24-07, 04:09 PM

Putting a nice 351 in my 80 has been in the back of my mind since I found out they make an adapter to do so.

This project has always had a start date of 2 years + from now, I was just gonna pick a motor, and start gathering the junk I need so that 2 or 3 years from now, I could start.

I would love for my 80 to be a stick on the street, but an auto in the dirt and rocks. I dont want to have to screw with a clutch all day and have wheeling be a workout more than a hobby or time to just enjoy myself.

I'm also not that great at fabbing stuff that looks as good as I want it to. So if I'm chopping up my floor and loosing all the factory consol stuff, I'm gonna want something back in its place, but I dont want it all ugly. That's what's causing me to try and keep my factory transmission.

And going through the hassle of swapping in all the stuff necessary to go manual, hell I might as well just get the A440 rebuilt and throw some low-range gears in my stock t-case.

Lowtide, did you ever figure out if the 62 case works behind the 80's A440? If so, couldn't I use a 62 case with some sort of reduction? Aren't there plenty of options if you use just a 62 series transfercase?

boots4 · 07-24-07, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

I would love for my 80 to be a stick on the street, but an auto in the dirt and rocks. I dont want to have to screw with a clutch all day and have wheeling be a workout more than a hobby or time to just enjoy myself.

I just installed a kit in my auto to do basically what you said. I got a manual shift kit for my 4L80e. It only shifts when I move the shifter and stays in the gear I've choosen. It should be like a manual without a clutch. Sadly, I'm still in project mode so I can only dream of how it's really going to work but that's what the marketing tells me. Don't have a clue if there is a kit like that for your auto though.

alkaline747trio · 07-24-07, 10:00 PM

I can pretty much do that already with first and second, and there is a mod to be able to do it with 3rd. Which makes keeping the A440 a pretty sweet deal, IF I do the Extreme VB from Wholesale transmissions in Oz.

tntoyota · 07-25-07, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

I can pretty much do that already with first and second, and there is a mod to be able to do it with 3rd. Which makes keeping the A440 a pretty sweet deal, IF I do the Extreme VB from Wholesale transmissions in Oz.

Ask Orto!!!

http://www.automatictransmission.com.au/default.asp

I been asking about the Isuzu adapter, he never calls, he never wirghts