[GLTHFJ60]

In the first video, the engine sounds really rattly. Is that just the quality of the video or is it really that loud at idle?

How is the power?

[boots4]

It is loud at idle but the camera seems to like that frequency so it sounds louder. Everytime I start the engine for someone to tell them it's loud, it doesn't seem that bad so maybe I'm getting used to it but you won't mistake it for anything but a diesel. I don't have any curtains in place in the gaps between the fender well and the frame and I imagine that would block some sound. As for power I'm still not gunning it because of the tranny modulation but it doesn't feel anything like the old 2F, much less labored on acceleration. I'm starting to wonder if the injection pump had been turn up some already because doing that will increase the rattle sound from a diesel.

[Tapage]

Dude .. it sound great .. please more vid under heavy load .. ! ( I love the sound of turbo diesel engines )

[CreeperSleeper]

Sweet! So we will get to see it at the meeting Thrusday?

[boots4]

If for some legal reason I can't drive it there it will probably make it to the video party on saturday, but yes I do intend to drive it to the meeting.

[muddogbob]

Quick question:

Does the full manual 4l80e have engine braking? In every gear? How is it controlled?


Thanks
~Bob

[boots4]

Not so quick answer: (It was actually a deep question)

I am getting engine braking when I decelerate. I've experimented a little with downshifting like I would if shifting a manual. I found that like a manual I would downshift when it was appropriate (i.e. don't downshift into 2nd going 50mph) but that downshifting into 1st was too harsh. The shifts are more direct because there is no clutch to feather engine speed, once I move the shift lever it shifts. So I plan to shift into 1st only after I am already stopped. I haven't gone on the freeway yet and I don't have the lock-up wired up either so an impression on those will be forthcoming. This is all with a set vacuum on the modulator in the tranny. The modulator controls the line pressure and that determines how hard of a shift and clamping power on the clutch packs in each gear; depending on which clutch pack(s) are activated will determine which gears are engaged.

I just got my parts today that I am going to use to get a vacuum source and regulate that source according to engine load. In other words, an electric vacuum pump will provide a vacuum source and a regulator valve will be hooked up to the throttle on the injection pump and will vary that vacuum depending on the position of the throttle arm. This vacuum signal will be hooked up to the modulator installed in the valve body that replaced the force motor and will mimick the engine being under load changing the line pressure to get the appropriate shift firmness while driving. This will require some tuning but I have some target vacuum numbers to start with. I originally thought I could run with full line pressure all the time but was told otherwise and now see that the shifts would be too firm for most of the driving. Once I get it dialed in I think I am really going to like it. There is only one other person who has done the same thing with his 4L80 that I know of and he really likes it. The experimentation continues.

[boots4]

DMV experience for the Portland OR metro area:

I showed up thursday morning and was at the counter within 5 minutes! I told the guy that I now have a diesel engine in my landcruiser and that I need to change the fuel type on my title. He wasn't sure how to do that so he disappeared for a couple of minutes to find out. He came back and then asked an older lady who probably had been working there for a while and she told him to fill out a "Title correction" form. He wrote on that to change the fuel type on my title from gasoline to diesel. I asked if he needed to see or hear the diesel and he said no. After that I needed to re-register to get tags. We filled out the normal form except he checked the diesel box instead of gas. I then had to go to the DEQ (portland's emission testing division) because I was not GVW8500 which are exempt. I drove to the facility and waited in line. I showed the guy the form I had that said to check for diesel emissions. There was a attendant there that was interested in my conversion and asked a few questions and ended up taking over the testing. They checked the VIN and then stuck a sniffer up the tailpipe. The attendant also asked what year the engine was. I told him it was a '92 and that I could open the hood if he wanted to see the EPA tag. He told me that all they care about in the conversion is that it's the same year or newer than the chassis. There seemed to be no problem with it going from gas to diesel. For the sniffer test he had me bump the rpm to ~900 and then to ~2000. I have no working tach yet so I guessed by sound. For the sniffer I was in the green the whole time, whatever they were testing for (I think it was for CO emissions). I was warmed up before I went so no visual smoke either and was running B5 that I got at a shell station so pretty much regular diesel. Then he said that it was kind of loud and that he was going to test for dBs. This is what I failed.

He tested right behind the front driver side tire and then behind the tailpipe. Permissible dB allowance is 93dB. I was running at 101dB. The test was done reving the engine and the bay did seem to amplify the sound some. So the part that I was worried about (changing gas to diesel) was not what I need to worry about now. I went back to the DMV and was told to hang on to the paper work for when I get it taken care of. I got a trip permit that lasts for 21 days so I could drive it to and from work.

I did some quick searching but will do more this week to find products that absorb sound inside the engine bay. A product called MotorMat looks promising. Then I'll need to find a muffler that is quiter. I used the stepvan's muffler and really don't think it quiets much. I had planned to do more soundproofing and run a different muffler anyways so this just moves those to the priority list.

I did not have skirts between the fender well and the frame so I made some. The old ones had fallen apart. About 2 years ago on a trail I came acoss what looked like a truckers mud flap that had been ripped off a trail rig. I picked it up for two reasons: 1 to clean up the trail and 2 because I thought I could use it for something later. This was the perfect use so I cut out some cardboard to get the shape, traced that shape and cut out a rubber piece.

Passenger side piece.



Passenger side skirt installed.



The driver side is in two pieces due to the steering box. Here's the front piece.



Here is the back piece.



Doing that probably dropped 2 dBs. If whatever product I use doesn't get me all the way I'll end up making a skirt to go around the bottom of the engine for dB testing.

I was thinking that my injection pump may have been turned up some but at the cruiser meeting last thursday night the other 4bt FJ60 was there and we parked side by side to do a sound comparison test and they sounded the same so I don't think my pump has been tweeked (I know his hadn't).

I did get my parts last week for the tranny. This is the vacuum regulator from a GM diesel that will vary the vacuum depending on the throttle position. Nothing has been hooked up yet so these are just product pics.





For vacuum I'll be using a 99-2000 ford powerstroke electric vacuum pump. It's just a positive and a negative wire to hook up.







To give me some kind of bumper since I am driving it around to find out what I need to address I slapped on the old one. Not pretty but I won't get to my front bumper built for a little bit so this will give cops one less reason to pull me over.



The brackets are super simple.

[brokenparts]

Got to see this last Thursday in person.... Man o Man... its perdy and is way nicer in person than the pictures can show.

[boots4]

Thanks, we missed you at the movie night at Ed's on saturday.

[1974FJ]

Hey, I have to ask, Is it that loud? Is it tolerable in the cab, and standing next to it? I know they are loud at idle, but is it bad when the rpm's pick up?

[boots4]

I think being in a band playing shows helps with it not being so loud!! i.e. hearing loss. Seriously, I think it is bearable and am more than willing to trade some noise for the kind of power and durability I'll get out of it. Again, I don't have any carpet in the cab and while the sound deadener helps I'm sure a combination of deadener and carpet would make most happy. If you can't stand the sound of a diesel, this is not your engine. I like the sound so it's not a problem for me plus I really like hearing that turbo spool. Once I get the cab closed up I'll be able to give better feedback on interior volumn; I still have the tranny access panel open and a hole or two in the firewall and floorboard so sound leaks in through there. Besides all that, I still need to be compliant with DEQs testing so I will have to cut down the dBs. Frankly I was suprised to find out I hit 101 dBs and wonder if the drive through bay had any affect on the sound reverberating.

[CreeperSleeper]

Originally Posted by brokenparts

Got to see this last Thursday in person.... Man o Man... its perdy and is way nicer in person than the pictures can show.

x2 Such a cool rig... Little noisy, tho (BTW- I'm currently running no exhaust... at all. I'm a bit louder!)

[boots4]

I've been doing my research and found that good hood liners are expensive. I started looking into the marine application and found some promising products at a resonable price and found an outfit in Seattle, Washington that has some products I ended up ordering. These 4bts are also used in the marine application and when I called the place he knew the engine. I decided to follow his recomendation on products and dropped him $200. I'll be getting 10 sheets of dexdamp ($6 a sheet) and 2 sheets of Barrier 104 ($70 a sheet). That will bring me up to about $350 spent on sound control products. This is still below what can be spent on the amount of sound control that I'm covering so I don't think this is excessive at all. If it were a trail rig only then I probably wouldn't care but with long trips planned I don't mind spending a little $$ for a more comfortable cab.

HamiltonJet Noise and Vibration Control Products

Now on to finding a diesel silencer/muffler.

[1974FJ]

Nice to know, How big is a sheet of either? Also, is the Barrier 104 what you plan to line the hood with? And do you plan to put the dexdamp on the floors/firewall/frontwheelwells?

Reason for asking is that i plan to get mine as quite as possible in my fj40 when the hard top is on, and i dont want to have carpet or anything in the cab thats going to hold moisture and remain wet.

[boots4]

It was recommended to use the dexdamp on flat metal surfaces. It just dampens the vibs. The sales guy originally suggested to line the engine bay with that and see how it turns out but I only want to go to DEQ one more time and pass the noise test so I got the barrier as well. The barrier 104 is what will absorb the sound. So the application goes dexdamp on the hood, fender wells, and sides of the fender (I already lined the firewall with other stuff or that would need to be done too); this is all in the engine bay. Once the dexdamp is down then line the hood with the barrier. If I have some barrier left over, which I should, I'll start adding it around the engine bay starting on the IP side since that's the loudest side.

The dexdamp are smaller and I don't know the exact size (I should by the end of the week) but the barrier is 32"x54". I suspect I'll have some dexdamp left over too and will use the rest by lining the inside of the firewall (at least where I can reach without taking the dash out) and the inside of the doors. I still have the OE firewall mat so I'd try to put it under that. It just depends how much I'll have left over. He said that once the dexdamp is applied it takes some serious caustic stuff or grinding it to get it off so size the pieces first before sticking them on.

[Mace]

Noise if gonna be an issue in Bob.

Most importantly is the noise that I am getting out of my fuel pump (intank, but the tank is inside the truck)

Please let us know how it turns out..

[Tapage]

Dude .. question

How much for the powersmoke vacc pump . ?

If I will be in your boots .. start with the sound proofing items for the engine bay, but let the mufflerr for the last .. I don't believe the muffler make any diference at all .. coz the Turbo absorb much ( or all ) of your exhaust sound ..

[boots4]

Mace, will do. They will most likely do a dB check once I go back so I should have some actual numbers I can share. If you plan on running carpet in Bob then these dexdamp sheets might be up your alley. Maybe something like a marine engine box that's insulated is something you could build to cover up the tank.

Tapage, Good idea. I will just research mufflers/silencers but wait until I get my sound deadening installed before I buy anything. It's suppose to be here by thursday so I should be able to get the stuff in by the weekend. Maybe I could get a little video for exhaust sound because it seems like a queiter muffler could help, might be fun to get a face full of diesel exhaust, I need a tan anyways. The Ford PS vacuum pump I got at a shops cost which was $95. It will cost more without a connection (someone who can get it at shop cost).

[Tapage]

Originally Posted by boots4

The Ford PS vacuum pump I got at a shops cost which was $95. It will cost more without a connection (someone who can get it at shop cost).

Thanks .. I'm with the old idea of the electric vacc pump .. just to be free ( mine it's behind my alternator ) and place more amps alternator ..

If you check my turbo videos ( ya I know are not the same engine and not the same turbo .. but the same concept ) you will notice the low sound ..

[1974FJ]

Hey, if video is easily done, then maybe two short clips of it running, one before the install, and one after(the hamiltonjet stuff). Might be able to tell, otherwise, it might be one of those things where you convince your self its quieter.

[GreasedPiggy]

Hey Boots4!

Looking great. One of the overlooked sources of noise on the
4bt is the oil pan. You can cut somewhere around 3-5 dB, depending upon the deadener used.

Covering the pan with bedliner does very little. The most effective
acoustic suppressor would be something like a second oil pan over
the original with padding in-between. Some foil-covered sound mats can do this.

Very nice work, you will soon have it street legal!

George

[Grolar]

Great to see (and hear) the baby running. Anymore videos to brag about? How is the noise curbing procedure going?

[boots4]

I'll have some short vids next week on sound. The initial testing tells me I'll probably need to rig a bottom skirt to really cut down the sound but it already sounds quieter in the cab. I've been focusing on this but may take a break and get some progress done on my vacuum setup for the tranny. Wife wants some time for herself on saturday (she definitely deserves it) so I'll be watching the kids but am hoping to get some time in on the cruiser, maybe they'll get an extra nap from dad.

[kling-on]

Very Nice Work

[Tapage]

Originally Posted by boots4

maybe they'll get an extra nap from dad.

it depends on the incentive

[boots4]

The sound deadening showed up and I just had to open it up.



This is barrier 104 in the 1.25" flavor. He said the thicker the better as long as you've got space for it. This is my thumb (my fattest finger) for reference. You can see the mylar coating, absorbant foam, a sound barrier and a foam backing that makes up this product.



This is the dexdamp. It comes in 12"x24" strips and has adhesive on the backside.



I pulled the original hoodliner and it looked like something tried making a nest at one point. The PO must have parked this for a little while. The hood was dirty so I cleaned and dried it before I started putting the dexdamp down.



Dexdamp is now on the hood. This is a dampener meant to keep the sheetmetal from vibrating which causes sound. This goes on first and then barrier 104. It doesn't take very long but having a little wooden roller helps to lay it on and get good contact for the adhesive.



Then I noticed my floor board was a little wet. It was no big deal (since I've got a gutter or windshield gasket leak) until I looked closer and realized it was coolant. I immediately dreaded the idea of a leaking heater core.



After further investigation I found the inlet to the heater control valve wasn't sealing. When I pulled the hose off I found out why. I must have overtightened the hose clamp and pinched the brass fitting. Somehow this was leaking into the cab (at least that is what I am hoping and am now monitoring).



I checked online and called a few places and no one had one. I'm sure another car like a camery used the same part but I didn't want to do the research to find out or hunt one down at the junkyard if I didn't have to so I opened up the hole and rounded it out. I didn't crack anything so I put it back in and it seems to be sealing. Again, I'll be watching this part and my coolant level to see if this was the leak.



I put some dexdamp down on the driver fenderwell and then decided to find a spot for my Ford PS vacuum pump. I decided on the firewall. I use one hole that already had a bolt in it, lined it up to mark the other hole, and put the drill through the firewall.



Here it is mounted to the firewall.





I must have missed the pic of the barrier 104 installed. I picked up some 3M 90 contact cement (following recommendation but an ouch @ $20 a spray can) at the local hardware store. I was skeptical that it would hold the weight of the barrier (must be ~20lbs) but by following instructions on the can for high strength it adhearded to the hood and kept the barrier in place. I bought two sheets and only used 1 for the hood. I'll find other places for the other sheet. Since it is pretty thick I ended up cutting out a recess for the intake and you can kind of get an idea of what it looks like.

[brokenparts]

so how does it sound?

[boots4]

With that stuff in place I started it up for a sound check. Above the hood there was a reduction in sound but unfortunately it was leaking right out the bottom. I was going to need a a skirt.

I had some extra work mats you put on the ground for cushioning that I decided to experiment with. I had some overhead shelving in the stepvan and cut a piece of that out to give me a base to attach this mat too. I then tailored the mat to fit the contour of the gap and attached it to the base with zip ties.

Heres a view from the top.



Here's a view from the bottom.



I put that front piece that comes on FJ60s back on and cut some foam to fit. Here's the bottom view.



Here is a view from the top.



I just did the front and the driver side. We went out to dinner that night and took the cruiser and that made an audible difference. I also lined the tranny access panel with dexdamp and even with it not being bolted down yet (meaning there is a gap for sound to leak) that too made a difference. Once I get that panel bolted down the in cab sound at idle will be very comfortable. When I have the engine spinning there is a droning in the cab but that is caused by that stepvan muffler so I still want to get a different one to reduce or eliminate that. I'm not done deadening the engine bay but that's all I got done last weekend. If I want to keep that skirt around the engine in place I think I'll go with more durable material just in case of heat. I'd be concerned about keeping that stuff in there during the hot summer months. I'm going to use some barrier product on the fender well and part of the firewall in attempts to absorb more sound. I'm going to this level of absorption because of my intended use as a DD and highway traveler. Boomy exhaust is fun at first but gets old on a long trip so I'm trying to deaden more than probably what is needed. I'm tempted to take it in to DEQ now and sound test again to see what the difference is.

Shifting gears I decided to look at hooking up some linkage for the shifters. That way I could get the tranny panel bolted down. I did some quick measurements and found some stuff laying around and came up with these.



I ran into clearance problems on the actual shifters and I'm not sure the rod material is strong enough so I'll do a redesign. These two will be easy because straight rods will work, the 2-4wd shifter will need to be bent for clearance so I didn't try anything for that yet. This week I'll do some calling about some mufflers/silencers I'm looking at.

[boots4]

Originally Posted by brokenparts

so how does it sound?

You got in before I could post my continuation. You're just too fast. If above post didn't answer your question let me know.