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02-17-07, 10:19 AM
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#1 (permalink)
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Site Addict
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 1,770
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School me on 4-links
Ok guys been thinking about getting into "hardcore" mods and I would love the ride that can be had from a 4-link rear so here it goes. The problem I have with 4links is not understanding the way the forces act on a triangulated 4-link and how it flexes without binding so I was wondering if anyone had some good reading material so I can get out there and learn about them before really considering one.
I have been reading and understand why it works but not exactly HOW and there-in lies the problem so if anyone has good links about the mechanics of it, perferably with pics, it would be great 
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"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin
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02-17-07, 12:11 PM
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#2 (permalink)
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Forum Lifer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada
Posts: 4,643
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Check pirates, the gods of link suspension have a hudge write up.
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02-17-07, 12:20 PM
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#3 (permalink)
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Admin
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Appleton, WI
Posts: 8,352
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honestly, pick up some small wooden dowels and some some screw-eyes and mock one up with some wood...for $10 in materials, you'll understand quite a bit without any reading at all.
http://www.offroadfabnet.com/forums/...read.php?t=366 should have some good links to a couple books as well.
http://mysite.verizon.net/triaged/4l...tml/index.html
http://mysite.verizon.net/triaged/fi...kV1.0bBETA.zip
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Brian 'woody' Swearingen
Owner, IH8MUD.com
Owner, ROCKCRAWLER.com
- 1974 FJ40 'The Raisin' - 39" Pitbull Maddogs, 17x9 TrailReadys, 30-spline Longfields, SOA - 1/4 ellip, Ultimate Air, MobiArc, Optima RedTop
- 1996 FZJ80 'Gretchen' - MetalTech sliders, MetalTech tube front, MileMarker V10 MiFi, OME lift, IPOR rear & skid, 4x4Labs swings, INTI rack, dual Optima RedTops, 285 TreadWright tires, Ultimate Air, Raingler Barrier
- 2009 buggy....designing... RockCrusher60's
- 2003 2500HD Duramax - Edge/Juice/Attitude, 285 Hankook DynaPro ATM, KYB MonoMax, 4" exhaust
- 2008 32' ABU Gooseneck car hauler, 2000 Damon Hornet M-32F, 1997 14' car hauler
Forum Questions? Click Here! .. .. .. .. 2009 IH8MUD Wheelin Schedule!
'America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.' Abraham Lincoln
'Everyone wants to save the porpoises, but no one cares about the tuna'
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02-17-07, 05:26 PM
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#4 (permalink)
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Site Addict
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Las Vegas
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__________________
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin
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02-19-07, 08:16 AM
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#5 (permalink)
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Admin
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Appleton, WI
Posts: 8,352
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in all my discussions with Troy Meyers (owner of the Badlands in IN), he said there was one major rule with regards to suspension link design on a "stockish" vehicle
go with what fits  That's your biggest limitation due to frame, fuel tanks, etc...meet the basic rules of triangulation and lengths, and mock up from there.
__________________
Brian 'woody' Swearingen
Owner, IH8MUD.com
Owner, ROCKCRAWLER.com
- 1974 FJ40 'The Raisin' - 39" Pitbull Maddogs, 17x9 TrailReadys, 30-spline Longfields, SOA - 1/4 ellip, Ultimate Air, MobiArc, Optima RedTop
- 1996 FZJ80 'Gretchen' - MetalTech sliders, MetalTech tube front, MileMarker V10 MiFi, OME lift, IPOR rear & skid, 4x4Labs swings, INTI rack, dual Optima RedTops, 285 TreadWright tires, Ultimate Air, Raingler Barrier
- 2009 buggy....designing... RockCrusher60's
- 2003 2500HD Duramax - Edge/Juice/Attitude, 285 Hankook DynaPro ATM, KYB MonoMax, 4" exhaust
- 2008 32' ABU Gooseneck car hauler, 2000 Damon Hornet M-32F, 1997 14' car hauler
Forum Questions? Click Here! .. .. .. .. 2009 IH8MUD Wheelin Schedule!
'America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.' Abraham Lincoln
'Everyone wants to save the porpoises, but no one cares about the tuna'
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02-19-07, 08:42 AM
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#6 (permalink)
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Site Addict
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Las Vegas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
meet the basic rules of triangulation and lengths, and mock up from there.
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That is essentially where I get lost is getting lengths and Triangulation right even with the calculator I am trying to figure out WHY those numbers work I guess I'll have to look at the xls, scale the equation down and use the wood as you suggested. Thanks again Everyone 
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"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin
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02-19-07, 08:53 PM
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#7 (permalink)
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250+ Club
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Drysdale Vic Aus
Posts: 900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
in all my discussions with Troy Meyers (owner of the Badlands in IN), he said there was one major rule with regards to suspension link design on a "stockish" vehicle
go with what fits That's your biggest limitation due to frame, fuel tanks, etc...meet the basic rules of triangulation and lengths, and mock up from there. |
Or,
go with what you can make fit 
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02-20-07, 02:57 PM
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#8 (permalink)
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Forum Regular
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 111
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Making it fit is the most important thing like everyone else has said. They key thing you need to determine is the lenghts. Not too long to get hung up, but not to short either. Also a good rule is to make your uppers 75% of your lowers. I dont have any math into my 4 link at it works awesome. Maybe i am just lucky but it just works.
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08' buggy on 1tons, 42's, V8, rolling on a trail near you...
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02-20-07, 03:51 PM
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#9 (permalink)
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what he said
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 13,100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grade8
Also a good rule is to make your uppers 75% of your lowers.
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Can you explain why..
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02-20-07, 07:50 PM
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#10 (permalink)
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Forum Regular
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 111
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Dont ask me haha, thats just what i have always been told. Heck i built mine all the same length and it works great 
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08' buggy on 1tons, 42's, V8, rolling on a trail near you...
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02-23-07, 04:30 PM
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#11 (permalink)
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Turbo Diesel Lover
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Panamá
Posts: 11,423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace
Can you explain why..
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I'm pretty sure that you can
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if you are achieveing the max boost then it isn't the boost that is going to kill your engine... it is your right foot.
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02-23-07, 06:06 PM
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#12 (permalink)
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what he said
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 13,100
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Actually, I can't...
It is a global "known" that works great for roundy round stuff but with any articulation it can (depending on link location) drive the pinion into the ground...
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02-23-07, 11:21 PM
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#13 (permalink)
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Site Addict
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 1,770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
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That middle link helped as I could line stuff up but the measurements I am supposed to plug in are a little confusing. I'd like to get a few more inches between a spring flip and a 4 link or possibly running my 55 rears in the front and doing the 4 link and buggy rear tube frame. The measurements that throw me off the most is CG X Y and Z I am not sure what the points for that are anyone have an idiot proof way to explain? I need to get some 1x1, 1/2" round tube and some of those eye hooks woody mentioned and start building models...maybe if I got some thin round stock I could bend up a mock tube frame... 
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"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin
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02-24-07, 08:32 AM
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#14 (permalink)
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Admin
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Appleton, WI
Posts: 8,352
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brake line works wonders for frame design
__________________
Brian 'woody' Swearingen
Owner, IH8MUD.com
Owner, ROCKCRAWLER.com
- 1974 FJ40 'The Raisin' - 39" Pitbull Maddogs, 17x9 TrailReadys, 30-spline Longfields, SOA - 1/4 ellip, Ultimate Air, MobiArc, Optima RedTop
- 1996 FZJ80 'Gretchen' - MetalTech sliders, MetalTech tube front, MileMarker V10 MiFi, OME lift, IPOR rear & skid, 4x4Labs swings, INTI rack, dual Optima RedTops, 285 TreadWright tires, Ultimate Air, Raingler Barrier
- 2009 buggy....designing... RockCrusher60's
- 2003 2500HD Duramax - Edge/Juice/Attitude, 285 Hankook DynaPro ATM, KYB MonoMax, 4" exhaust
- 2008 32' ABU Gooseneck car hauler, 2000 Damon Hornet M-32F, 1997 14' car hauler
Forum Questions? Click Here! .. .. .. .. 2009 IH8MUD Wheelin Schedule!
'America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.' Abraham Lincoln
'Everyone wants to save the porpoises, but no one cares about the tuna'
|
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|
|
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02-24-07, 03:42 PM
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#15 (permalink)
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Site Addict
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 1,770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
brake line works wonders for frame design |
 good point
__________________
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin
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03-03-07, 07:27 PM
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#16 (permalink)
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Site Addict
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Las Vegas
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Ok so here's my question on materials.
Would 2" OD .5" wall DOM with welded inserts be strong enough for the links?
Also would it be ok to use bushings at the frame end and 7/8" johnny joints at the axle or do you guys have something that you would recommend better. The vehicle that this will be done on will see lots of road time as it will be a long time before I can buy another vehicle to tow it with.
__________________
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin
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03-03-07, 08:45 PM
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#17 (permalink)
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what he said
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 13,100
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good setup..
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Radd Cruisers
woody
Gretchen
The Raisin
Mace
