Finally I began my coil spring conversion!!

Francesco_from_Italy · 09-29-06, 12:53 PM

Yes! After months of late a few days ago I began the works on my FJ

And obviously I'm right here to ask you some help...

I'm now working on the front axle; today I put the bars (I hope is the right word...) in their position and I noticed that they are have a strong anglerespect to the ground:

Now: is that a problem? I mean, do these "bars" have to work parallel to the ground or are they ok also in that position? As you can see I put their connction on the top of the axle to avoid this problem...is that enough?

Thanx for your help!!!

Francesco

Francesco_from_Italy · 09-29-06, 12:58 PM

A few more pics:

Francesco

corsair23 · 09-29-06, 03:40 PM

I know nothing about a coil spring suspension but I can't imagine you want the "bars" parallel to the ground unless you were fully compressed. How do you know what angle they will ultimately be at until you pick the springs you want and get the tires on? I would think that depending on tire size, spring rate, and attachment point will determine the droop of the bars. If the droop were unacceptable could you fab an attachment point that drops down off the frame more?

Good luck!!!!

denis · 09-30-06, 01:25 AM

Is the setup pictured at ride height, or fully extended ? If that is your ride heightn, and if it were mine I'd like to have the control arms a bit more horizontal, the way they are pictured right now will bring an awful lot of anti-dive effect which will affect the ride quality and braking stability, as well as a lot of roll-steer.
I would shoot for angles similar to what you can find on stock or moderately lifted LJs as far as handling goes. Make sure you weld the mounts aligned with the ride height otherwise you will have a lot of binding in the bushings.

Francesco_from_Italy · 09-30-06, 03:49 AM

To me is not difficult calculate the final highness becouse the coilovers are going to be done by a guy who builds coilovers depending on the characteristic you ask him to respect.

In the pics is not figured the final position becouse now the axle is not put exactly wher it should be, I can say that, when the cars will be finished, it will be a couple of inches closer to the car, so the angle of the bar should get a little better.

The road driving is not a big problem: I use this car quite only in offroad.

The idea of building attachment points much dropped from the frame is good, I just have to find a way to make them low and, at the same time, strong.

Francesco

Isotel · 09-30-06, 06:43 PM

The Bars are Radius Arms..
If your going thru all the trouble of this install, why Keep these?? They limit travel..

Id go for a 3 link Similar to what Action Jackson did to his 80..

http://www.actionjackson.com/cruiser/mods/20060110.asp

I think you will be much happier.. Especialy since you only drive it offroad..

In the end you will have a stronger, better setup..

Francesco_from_Italy · 10-01-06, 04:21 PM

isotel, on the front axle I'll use a classic system with radius bar and panhard becouse in quite complicated to build a 3 link; on the rear axle instead I'll use a 4 link o a 3 link with triangle.

Francesco

Francesco_from_Italy · 10-02-06, 04:30 AM

I calculated that the radius bar will have more or less 10/11° of inclination...in that too much or is good????

Francesco

Mace · 10-02-06, 09:35 AM

10 to 11* is not bad. How is a three link that much harder to build than a three link?

On a Radius, you really want the arms to be as flat as possible.

Francesco_from_Italy · 10-02-06, 11:06 AM

Mace a 3 link needs to calculate some things, is more difficult to build and I have engine and drive shaft in the middle...I'll see how it will come out from my work and maybe I'll think about buolding a 3 link!

But I'm glad you're saying that 10/11° is not a bad data!

Tomorrow I'll begin to build axle attachments for the radius...

Francesco

denis · 10-02-06, 11:58 AM

10/11° sounds good, that's about what the radius armed stockish rigs have, and it works.

Mace · 10-02-06, 12:15 PM

BTW, all of the angles, calculations still matter with a radius arm suspension. It is just that you are ignoring them..

Tapage · 10-02-06, 12:32 PM

with 2 radius arms ( control arms to me ) you can make a 3 link setup ... using the top link from a radius arm .. most if is only for off road use.

Francesco_from_Italy · 10-02-06, 03:24 PM

Mace, what do you mean? Are you saying that I'm ingoring some important parts of the work?

Do someone have some concrete informations or suggesting for a front 3 link? Tapage, you're saying that with these 2 radius arms (studied for a panhar) I can also make a 3 link? And the triangle where should be put?

Thanx again for you precious help!

Francesco

Francesco_from_Italy · 10-02-06, 03:28 PM

By th way, here it is a couple of pics of the actual position (that, I hope, will be the final one!); here the radius have a little bit more of 10° of inclination.

Francesco

Isotel · 10-02-06, 03:50 PM

that looks alot better,

the thing with Linked suspensions is their is alot of ways to do it, and no concrete type data saying "this is the way".. Im pretty sure a 3 link is the least complicated, Basicly you run 2 lower links from the frame to the mid point on the axle, then a Panhard and an upper link to control the caster angle..

So Aside from the $600 +/- you will have in Brackets, Joints Tubing and Treaded inserts, your only fabricating one extra piece being the upper 3rd link..
I like the way Action jacksons came out, and he did his on the same axle your using..

The radius ams look good where you have them as of now, If you go into the 80's section you can find alot of info on How they are trying to overcome the limitations of the radius arm setup and why it limits flex..

Tapage · 10-03-06, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isotel

the thing with Linked suspensions is their is alot of ways to do it, and no concrete type data saying "this is the way".. Im pretty sure a 3 link is the least complicated, Basicly you run 2 lower links from the frame to the mid point on the axle, then a Panhard and an upper link to control the caster

that's was my idea ..

see in this thread ..

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.p...11#post1442411

Francesco_from_Italy · 10-05-06, 12:43 PM

That' what I did today...attachment on the axle for radius arms:

Francesco

Francesco_from_Italy · 10-05-06, 12:48 PM

Tapage · 10-05-06, 01:12 PM

did you keep in mind your caster range when you weld this . . ?

Francesco_from_Italy · 10-05-06, 03:40 PM

Yes, I kept the axle exaclty in th same position in wich it was with previous leaf spring suspension (and of course when it was mount on the HDJ 80 from wich I took the axles.).

Francesco

Tapage · 10-06-06, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francesco_from_Italy

Yes, I kept the axle exaclty in th same position in wich it was with previous leaf spring suspension (and of course when it was mount on the HDJ 80 from wich I took the axles.).

Francesco

the hi pinion setup of this axle helps a lots with the front drive shaft angle ..

Francesco_from_Italy · 10-06-06, 11:05 AM

Today's job:

Francesco

FJ Tingey · 10-06-06, 12:43 PM

thats a different set up.

Francesco_from_Italy · 10-06-06, 01:25 PM

Ehm...different from what???

Francesco

Tapage · 10-06-06, 02:23 PM

Usually you will see control arms under axle housing .. I'm very very interested in know more about your proyect when you finish ir .. and how it gonna be run.

ridgerunner · 10-06-06, 04:40 PM

Seen a few rovers mounted like that, and there's an aussie 80 (gotta be others too) that has the arms flipped....

scottryana · 10-06-06, 07:32 PM

I could be completely wrong, but I think that those are very similiar to an EB. The way the frame side attaches looks identical but the axle side looks like an 80. Cool.

Ryan.

09-29-06, 12:53 PM	#1
Francesco_from_Italy IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bologna, Italy Posts: 203	Finally I began my coil spring conversion!! Yes! After months of late a few days ago I began the works on my FJ And obviously I'm right here to ask you some help... I'm now working on the front axle; today I put the bars (I hope is the right word...) in their position and I noticed that they are have a strong anglerespect to the ground: Now: is that a problem? I mean, do these "bars" have to work parallel to the ground or are they ok also in that position? As you can see I put their connction on the top of the axle to avoid this problem...is that enough? Thanx for your help!!! Francesco __________________ 1972 Fj 40 - 1992 Hzj 73

09-29-06, 12:58 PM	#2
Francesco_from_Italy IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bologna, Italy Posts: 203	A few more pics: Francesco __________________ 1972 Fj 40 - 1992 Hzj 73

09-29-06, 03:40 PM	#3
corsair23 Hopeless Cruiser Addict Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,618	I know nothing about a coil spring suspension but I can't imagine you want the "bars" parallel to the ground unless you were fully compressed. How do you know what angle they will ultimately be at until you pick the springs you want and get the tires on? I would think that depending on tire size, spring rate, and attachment point will determine the droop of the bars. If the droop were unacceptable could you fab an attachment point that drops down off the frame more? Good luck!!!! __________________ '97 LX450 aka "The Whale" with a winch called Damien '97 FZJ80 40th AE, Antique Sage, #267 '74 FJ40, 2F, SM420, 4" Lift, ARB locked front and rear, 33" MTRs '76 FJ40, 2F, 4-speed, 4" Lift, 33" BFG ATs (SOLD)

09-30-06, 01:25 AM	#4
denis retired maths geek huh Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: buried in a pile of yota projects TLCA# ?! Posts: 1,064	Is the setup pictured at ride height, or fully extended ? If that is your ride heightn, and if it were mine I'd like to have the control arms a bit more horizontal, the way they are pictured right now will bring an awful lot of anti-dive effect which will affect the ride quality and braking stability, as well as a lot of roll-steer. I would shoot for angles similar to what you can find on stock or moderately lifted LJs as far as handling goes. Make sure you weld the mounts aligned with the ride height otherwise you will have a lot of binding in the bushings. __________________ '71MS75 threw a rod '74MS75 seized engine '75BJ40 farm tractor type R '79FJ55 rostig schwein '80BJ40 never ending resto '88LN65 frame-off '90HDJ80 the bear '92LN85 turbo ute

09-30-06, 03:49 AM	#5
Francesco_from_Italy IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bologna, Italy Posts: 203	To me is not difficult calculate the final highness becouse the coilovers are going to be done by a guy who builds coilovers depending on the characteristic you ask him to respect. In the pics is not figured the final position becouse now the axle is not put exactly wher it should be, I can say that, when the cars will be finished, it will be a couple of inches closer to the car, so the angle of the bar should get a little better. The road driving is not a big problem: I use this car quite only in offroad. The idea of building attachment points much dropped from the frame is good, I just have to find a way to make them low and, at the same time, strong. Francesco __________________ 1972 Fj 40 - 1992 Hzj 73

09-30-06, 06:43 PM	#6
Isotel IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Crawlorado.com TLCA# 16898 Posts: 2,938	The Bars are Radius Arms.. If your going thru all the trouble of this install, why Keep these?? They limit travel.. Id go for a 3 link Similar to what Action Jackson did to his 80.. http://www.actionjackson.com/cruiser/mods/20060110.asp I think you will be much happier.. Especialy since you only drive it offroad.. In the end you will have a stronger, better setup.. __________________ 1976 FJ40 TBI350 700R4 D300 SOA Locked 37" PBR's Protected by REDLINE Colorado Land Cruisers - Club Redline Land Cruisers - Safety First CrAwLoRadO.com - Just Check it out

10-01-06, 04:21 PM	#7
Francesco_from_Italy IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bologna, Italy Posts: 203	isotel, on the front axle I'll use a classic system with radius bar and panhard becouse in quite complicated to build a 3 link; on the rear axle instead I'll use a 4 link o a 3 link with triangle. Francesco __________________ 1972 Fj 40 - 1992 Hzj 73

10-02-06, 04:30 AM	#8
Francesco_from_Italy IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bologna, Italy Posts: 203	I calculated that the radius bar will have more or less 10/11° of inclination...in that too much or is good???? Francesco __________________ 1972 Fj 40 - 1992 Hzj 73

10-02-06, 09:35 AM	#9
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,870	10 to 11* is not bad. How is a three link that much harder to build than a three link? On a Radius, you really want the arms to be as flat as possible. __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

10-02-06, 11:06 AM	#10
Francesco_from_Italy IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bologna, Italy Posts: 203	Mace a 3 link needs to calculate some things, is more difficult to build and I have engine and drive shaft in the middle...I'll see how it will come out from my work and maybe I'll think about buolding a 3 link! But I'm glad you're saying that 10/11° is not a bad data! Tomorrow I'll begin to build axle attachments for the radius... Francesco __________________ 1972 Fj 40 - 1992 Hzj 73

10-02-06, 11:58 AM	#11
denis retired maths geek huh Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: buried in a pile of yota projects TLCA# ?! Posts: 1,064	10/11° sounds good, that's about what the radius armed stockish rigs have, and it works. __________________ '71MS75 threw a rod '74MS75 seized engine '75BJ40 farm tractor type R '79FJ55 rostig schwein '80BJ40 never ending resto '88LN65 frame-off '90HDJ80 the bear '92LN85 turbo ute

10-02-06, 12:15 PM	#12
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,870	BTW, all of the angles, calculations still matter with a radius arm suspension. It is just that you are ignoring them.. __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

10-02-06, 03:24 PM	#14
Francesco_from_Italy IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bologna, Italy Posts: 203	Mace, what do you mean? Are you saying that I'm ingoring some important parts of the work? Do someone have some concrete informations or suggesting for a front 3 link? Tapage, you're saying that with these 2 radius arms (studied for a panhar) I can also make a 3 link? And the triangle where should be put? Thanx again for you precious help! Francesco __________________ 1972 Fj 40 - 1992 Hzj 73

10-02-06, 03:28 PM	#15
Francesco_from_Italy IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bologna, Italy Posts: 203	By th way, here it is a couple of pics of the actual position (that, I hope, will be the final one!); here the radius have a little bit more of 10° of inclination. Francesco __________________ 1972 Fj 40 - 1992 Hzj 73

10-02-06, 03:50 PM	#16
Isotel IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Crawlorado.com TLCA# 16898 Posts: 2,938	that looks alot better, the thing with Linked suspensions is their is alot of ways to do it, and no concrete type data saying "this is the way".. Im pretty sure a 3 link is the least complicated, Basicly you run 2 lower links from the frame to the mid point on the axle, then a Panhard and an upper link to control the caster angle.. So Aside from the $600 +/- you will have in Brackets, Joints Tubing and Treaded inserts, your only fabricating one extra piece being the upper 3rd link.. I like the way Action jacksons came out, and he did his on the same axle your using.. The radius ams look good where you have them as of now, If you go into the 80's section you can find alot of info on How they are trying to overcome the limitations of the radius arm setup and why it limits flex.. __________________ 1976 FJ40 TBI350 700R4 D300 SOA Locked 37" PBR's Protected by REDLINE Colorado Land Cruisers - Club Redline Land Cruisers - Safety First CrAwLoRadO.com - Just Check it out

10-05-06, 12:43 PM	#18
Francesco_from_Italy IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bologna, Italy Posts: 203	That' what I did today...attachment on the axle for radius arms: Francesco __________________ 1972 Fj 40 - 1992 Hzj 73

10-05-06, 12:48 PM	#19
Francesco_from_Italy IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bologna, Italy Posts: 203	__________________ 1972 Fj 40 - 1992 Hzj 73

10-05-06, 03:40 PM	#21
Francesco_from_Italy IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bologna, Italy Posts: 203	Yes, I kept the axle exaclty in th same position in wich it was with previous leaf spring suspension (and of course when it was mount on the HDJ 80 from wich I took the axles.). Francesco __________________ 1972 Fj 40 - 1992 Hzj 73

10-06-06, 11:05 AM	#23
Francesco_from_Italy IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bologna, Italy Posts: 203	Today's job: Francesco __________________ 1972 Fj 40 - 1992 Hzj 73

10-06-06, 12:43 PM	#24
FJ Tingey IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: you tah Posts: 33	thats a different set up.

10-06-06, 01:25 PM	#25
Francesco_from_Italy IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bologna, Italy Posts: 203	Ehm...different from what??? Francesco __________________ 1972 Fj 40 - 1992 Hzj 73

10-06-06, 04:40 PM	#27
ridgerunner IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: КЫРГЫЗСТАН Posts: 1,027	Seen a few rovers mounted like that, and there's an aussie 80 (gotta be others too) that has the arms flipped....

10-06-06, 07:32 PM	#28
scottryana IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 602	I could be completely wrong, but I think that those are very similiar to an EB. The way the frame side attaches looks identical but the axle side looks like an 80. Cool. Ryan. __________________ The Neverending FJ55 Project http://homepage.mac.com/ryanandjessaka/PhotoAlbum1.html Stock 1971 FJ55