A number of “2FE” engines have been built and installed into 40s, 60s, 62s and possibly iron pigs as well. The obvious member of the family that is missing (as far as I know) is the 80. As someone with a 2FE in the final assembly stage, I thought I would start a thread in this section to get some discussion going on that possibility. It seems there is interest, so to get the ball rolling here’s some of the info that’s already out there.
What is a 2FE?
It is basically a 3FE built with the block and rotating assembly of a 2F, and whichever set of accessories work for the application (2F in a 40 or 60, 3FE in a 62 and presumably in an 80 as well).
Here’s what I wrote in my thread when lt1fire popped his head in and asked:
The strong points of a 2F are in the bottom end. Longer stroke, longer rods, taller, more stable pistons, IIRC a stronger crank. The bottom end of a 3FE is somewhat weaker. To shorten the deck the geometries were changed. On top of the shorter stroke it also has a much short rod and a shorter piston. The shorter rod means greater a greater maximum angle with respect to the centerline of the bore, and the shorter piston is less stable. Additionally, on a 3FE at bottom dead center the entire piston skirt has dropped out of the bore. With the 2F a portion of the skirt also drops below the bore, but it is slightly less in absolute amount, and significantly less in terms of proportional length than with the 3FE, since the 2F piston is much taller.
See diagram and chart here: IH8MUD.com - View Single Post - 2F + 3F-E = 2F-ETI Into My FJ40
The strength of the 3FE is in the top end. The head has a tighter combustion chamber, the exhaust ports are bigger, the intake manifold and exhaust manifolds are both a more smooth flowing design than on the 2F, and of course you have a multiport fuel injection system, with all the engine management and fuel mixture benefits that come with it.
Compared to a 2F, you get better fuel management, and I would think an engine more suited to higher revs with the improved intake and exhaust. Compared to a 3FE, you get more low end grunt because of the extra stroke length (my 3FE doesn't really come alive till ~2500, but is strong in the 3000-4000 range) and you get a bottom end that while heavier, is supposedly stronger and better able to handle revs in the 4000-5000 range.
The 60 series trucks are well suited to fit a 2FE, since the 60 came with a 2F and was designed to accommodate the “extra” 2" of engine height. In a 60 or 62 with a 2FE, apparently the top of the intake manifold just rubs on the hood liner. With the 80 series trucks, I understand that under-hood clearance is an obstacle for fitting a 2FE, you would either need a body lift, or a modified hood to get the clearance.
There is documentation of several 2FE builds, from basically stock assembly, to absolutely no holds barred. The following are some of the links.
Some discussion on the real world results of a 2FE swap (and TBI 2F as well): https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-...head-injection-real-world-stories-please.html
Tonkota’s stock 2FE into a 62, pdf format: http://www.steelnthings.com/TLCA/2Fswap/2feswap.pdf
CruisinFJ60’s 2FE for Fiona thread, not completed yet - https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/230794-2f-e-swap-fiona.html
Pappy’s 2FE built for torque by DOA, pdf format: http://bushrat.hdcruisers.org/3FEconversion.pdf
My 2FE build thread, in final assembly currently: https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/277349-help-me-plan-2fe.html
Top end work on mine: https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/253031-improving-flow-3fe-s-top-end.html
Matt’s turbo-intercooled 2FE for his 40: https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/134529-2f-3f-e-2f-eti-into-my-fj40.html
Results? Well Pappy and Matt both have dynoed their trucks.
Pappy’s rig (again built for torque, not revving) :
“124rwhp @ 3250rpm and 233rwlbft @1950rpm
The engine made +200lbft between 1150 and 3250rpm, again, at the rear wheels. That potentially equals 284lbft and 151hp at the crank assuming a conservative 18% loss through the drive train. Torque increased 42% over a 2F, and 29% over a 3FE. The torque curve was nearly ruler flat. This engine is a monster in my light FJ40.”
Matt’s super 2FE (turbo-intercooled):
“DYNO'd at 8PSI 181kw/244hp & 560Nm/413ftlb @ the RW 8th Dec 08
EST @ FLY 283KW/379HP”
Hurdles for putting a 2FE into an 80….
Underhood clearance. The 2FE will be 2” taller than a 3FE, is there room? Body lift or hood modification to clear?
Mating the 2F crank to the A440F. Did the bolt pattern for the 3FE crank change between the 62 and the 80? Use a 62 flexplate? Got to a manual and part-time 4WD with a H42F/H55F-splitcase combo?
Other issues?
What is a 2FE?
It is basically a 3FE built with the block and rotating assembly of a 2F, and whichever set of accessories work for the application (2F in a 40 or 60, 3FE in a 62 and presumably in an 80 as well).
Here’s what I wrote in my thread when lt1fire popped his head in and asked:
The strong points of a 2F are in the bottom end. Longer stroke, longer rods, taller, more stable pistons, IIRC a stronger crank. The bottom end of a 3FE is somewhat weaker. To shorten the deck the geometries were changed. On top of the shorter stroke it also has a much short rod and a shorter piston. The shorter rod means greater a greater maximum angle with respect to the centerline of the bore, and the shorter piston is less stable. Additionally, on a 3FE at bottom dead center the entire piston skirt has dropped out of the bore. With the 2F a portion of the skirt also drops below the bore, but it is slightly less in absolute amount, and significantly less in terms of proportional length than with the 3FE, since the 2F piston is much taller.
See diagram and chart here: IH8MUD.com - View Single Post - 2F + 3F-E = 2F-ETI Into My FJ40
The strength of the 3FE is in the top end. The head has a tighter combustion chamber, the exhaust ports are bigger, the intake manifold and exhaust manifolds are both a more smooth flowing design than on the 2F, and of course you have a multiport fuel injection system, with all the engine management and fuel mixture benefits that come with it.
Compared to a 2F, you get better fuel management, and I would think an engine more suited to higher revs with the improved intake and exhaust. Compared to a 3FE, you get more low end grunt because of the extra stroke length (my 3FE doesn't really come alive till ~2500, but is strong in the 3000-4000 range) and you get a bottom end that while heavier, is supposedly stronger and better able to handle revs in the 4000-5000 range.
The 60 series trucks are well suited to fit a 2FE, since the 60 came with a 2F and was designed to accommodate the “extra” 2" of engine height. In a 60 or 62 with a 2FE, apparently the top of the intake manifold just rubs on the hood liner. With the 80 series trucks, I understand that under-hood clearance is an obstacle for fitting a 2FE, you would either need a body lift, or a modified hood to get the clearance.
There is documentation of several 2FE builds, from basically stock assembly, to absolutely no holds barred. The following are some of the links.
Some discussion on the real world results of a 2FE swap (and TBI 2F as well): https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-...head-injection-real-world-stories-please.html
Tonkota’s stock 2FE into a 62, pdf format: http://www.steelnthings.com/TLCA/2Fswap/2feswap.pdf
CruisinFJ60’s 2FE for Fiona thread, not completed yet - https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/230794-2f-e-swap-fiona.html
Pappy’s 2FE built for torque by DOA, pdf format: http://bushrat.hdcruisers.org/3FEconversion.pdf
My 2FE build thread, in final assembly currently: https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/277349-help-me-plan-2fe.html
Top end work on mine: https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/253031-improving-flow-3fe-s-top-end.html
Matt’s turbo-intercooled 2FE for his 40: https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/134529-2f-3f-e-2f-eti-into-my-fj40.html
Results? Well Pappy and Matt both have dynoed their trucks.
Pappy’s rig (again built for torque, not revving) :
“124rwhp @ 3250rpm and 233rwlbft @1950rpm
The engine made +200lbft between 1150 and 3250rpm, again, at the rear wheels. That potentially equals 284lbft and 151hp at the crank assuming a conservative 18% loss through the drive train. Torque increased 42% over a 2F, and 29% over a 3FE. The torque curve was nearly ruler flat. This engine is a monster in my light FJ40.”
Matt’s super 2FE (turbo-intercooled):
“DYNO'd at 8PSI 181kw/244hp & 560Nm/413ftlb @ the RW 8th Dec 08
EST @ FLY 283KW/379HP”
Hurdles for putting a 2FE into an 80….
Underhood clearance. The 2FE will be 2” taller than a 3FE, is there room? Body lift or hood modification to clear?
Mating the 2F crank to the A440F. Did the bolt pattern for the 3FE crank change between the 62 and the 80? Use a 62 flexplate? Got to a manual and part-time 4WD with a H42F/H55F-splitcase combo?
Other issues?
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). I did my 2F-E for the reduction in cost and parts availability. It's more money to rebuild a 3F-E than a 2F and just easier to get the parts. The HP/torque was a positive benefit. And I can recommend upgrading the cam on anything you rebuild, that made just as much difference.
