[dieselcruiserhead]

Well, I had a blast with the 55 this week in Moab... But seeing some of the 80s in action and Gary Cobberly's awesome 45 basically finalized something I have been pondering for a long time. So, I am about to pickup another piggie, this one with a cleaner body. I was planning on doing a body swap and keeping everything as is (which is pretty good) but some fantasies got a hold of me and here is the outcome:

A new piggie with:

80 series axles and frame complete with lockers and OE FJ80 suspension. Probably OME J springs. Not sure what else as I am not up on my 80 series stuff but I'll learn it. Probably pretty high backpaced wheels to get about 1" wider on each side than my current FJ60 width axles.


Trying to score a Cummins ISB 3.9, the 16 valve electronic version of the 4BT that is higher power and better mielage. 170 hp, it will be a rocket ship. A little more reliable, powerwise, than the mechanical injection pumps (which are fine). Otherwise I just scored another 4BT breadvan so I could always use this engine too...


NV5600. 6 speed out of late model Dodge Diesel. One big heavy motha, I think 300lbs, and very long...

Built Dana 300 with 4:1 gears and strong output shafts....


And that is it. This is of course all a big dream but assuming the cruiser sells then it will be at least moving towards a reality here.... And I promise I won't be done with FJ55's of course by any means...

________________________________________


So, unfortubately here is the auction. I have had a great three years with her. Will be sad to see her go. Or if it doesn't get $11,500 (admittedly a little high IMO) then I just keep on trucking and do the body swap...

Because most of this truck will be new, I started doing the math and it will be easier to start with a new truck and frame rather than scavenge from the old. So... Unfortunately I guess she's gotta go... sniff sniff....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ALCA%3AUS%3A31


EDIT: FYI even though the auction says $16G, I got $12G for it...

[Wayneraintree]

No offense intended, but I think you have a classic case of "thrill of the build syndrome".. .. your prescription is to spend hours scouring for the 80 parts and more time reading up on how you will form this beast, daydream of paint color choices, and of the trails it will conquer.....

don't feel bad because you are moving onto the next pig platformed project.. feel good that someone will get a well cared for 55 and you will build a well built (and creative also) 55 that will wheel like the devil (as one ex-piggie owner used to say). : ) he moved into an 80 FWIW once he sold his 55...

[dieselcruiserhead]

LOL indeed I do. I pretty much have decided that I love building, and definetrely scouring for parts.. I already located the NV5600 for $2000

[FJBen]

I know exactly what you are going through man! I had plenty of thoughts going through my head after my flop. I would LOVE a clean FJ55 body on a FZJ80 drivetrain...I think a lot of us would!

I moved up to the 80 and don't have any regrets so far. I do miss the ugly ass styling of the 55 and just the simplicity of it tho.

btw: do you want to trade for my built 80? j/k!

[dieselcruiserhead]

I would love an 80 but can't afford one of the canadian diesel models and probably couldn't stomach the fuel costs at this moment... And I am getting close to 30 but am not married yet and I feel like an 80's a little too nice and/or civilized for me currently Also it seems like everyone has 80's these days (understandably). Also I am the director of our biodiesel coop, it would be 'ironic' to not even have a diesel any more I guess...

I love the 55, I guess my goal is to have and do this one right, I learned so much on this last one (I had never even done an engine swap before it) so I am telling myself this will be 'the one,' the one that I will hopefully keep for the next 10-15 years at least. I took a look at the NV5600 today. One - big - mutha... In a pretty bad wreck, but I think I can get all the parts semi reasonably cheap and have a couple cracks tig welded in the bellhousing, there is a very good aluminum tig welder around here... So anywhoo, I'll keep on dreamin I suppose.

Nearly 30 watchers of the auction but no bidders yet, see how it goes. I guess I'll be a little sad if it doesn't sell but but will be sad to see her go at the same time...

Thanks guys, nice to hear your input...

[yooper]

Originally Posted by dieselcruiserhead

...Nearly 30 watchers of the auction but no bidders yet, see how it goes. I guess I'll be a little sad if it doesn't sell but but will be sad to see her go at the same time...

I'm a watcher! Many of the watchers I'm sure are MUD'ers or Pig list members, or both...

[RHINO]

dre i must be missing something, i understand the desire to build. but your not wanting to keep the 80 drivetrain other than axles so why not just build a coiler under the pig?? the frame is stout enough and a 3 or 4 link will work everybit as good or better.

[dieselcruiserhead]

Well I thought a lot about that and the plan was some type of 4 link for some time. But another thing is I have been wanting a stronger rear axle for a while, and I want selectables so there is $1500 for the lockers alone. Plus the cost of the stronger rear axle, probably another $1000-$1500 or so at least to have a narrowed 6 bolt to match my front (which I am very happy with, even with the aussie locker). Then there is the cost of the suspension. So I could easily be into this $3 of 4G which I can't really justify at this point. Plus the cost of the resto on the new 55 body of course. Plus, I have never setup a 4 link or anything similar, I was worried that it would take some time to get it dialed in for the street and regular-old cruiser activity. Also, J springs seems to be about the perfect height and weight carrying load as far as I can tell.

Also, assuming we strike a deal, there is a guy in our club who has a rolling chassis/axles/suspension that he'll sell me complete with computer for the lockers, etc for $2500. Also, I really like / want something designed to handle well on the street. I know an 80 series suspension is clunky versus a traditional 4 link or 3 link from an off road perspective. But I like that it can still carry a load and wheel well, which is basically everythink I am after. Plus haul ass on dirt roads (something I have been reluctant to do a little with the piggie - but I do anyway) because these 80 series I want to keep up with are so much better on the dirt roads with their coils. They basically just all-around ride better. And this will be a wheeler but at the same time still a cruiser wagon, somethink I can haul/camp/drive on dirt roads and the street at the same time.. So that's why I think it makes sense. Plus I really like the 80 series rear axle after installing one on TheFerg's 60 once... full float with disks, semi strong rear diff (even my 8" held up so I am not totally worried about it).

In the end, I think I'll be miles ahead with this setup for a lesser cost regardless. All I have to do then is simply ( ) chop the frame and remove 6" out of it


The question now is to just do another 4BT (sure would be easier that way) or be patient and drop another $2-3G into getting the sweet ISB engine that will knock my socks off (of course its what I really want). I am also trying to avoid smoke as much as possible... But it turns out 1) finding one of these ISB's for less than $4500 has been impossible, and 2) there are some weird adapter issues that are only more complicated with this new engine... So I might end up with another 4BT again... We'll see...

Andre

[KliersLC]

80 series axles are fine and everything, but what are your torque numbers going to look like? One of the 80 saving graces is the auto tranny that keeps us from busting the diffs in reverse. If your torque rating will be more than 250 or so, you are going to have to be really carefull in reverse. Non-US models come with a standard, but IIRC both diesels are a bit lower powered than the 1fz-fe
FWIW,
Dan

[ridgerunner]

Andre you manky git. One thing I've liked about your truck was just how it's exactly not what you've described.

Gonna be around Sunday?

[dieselcruiserhead]

Originally Posted by KliersLC

80 series axles are fine and everything, but what are your torque numbers going to look like? One of the 80 saving graces is the auto tranny that keeps us from busting the diffs in reverse. If your torque rating will be more than 250 or so, you are going to have to be really carefull in reverse. Non-US models come with a standard, but IIRC both diesels are a bit lower powered than the 1fz-fe
FWIW,
Dan

Well it depends which diesle I end up with. The 4BT is about 250 ft/lbs but I'll probably turn it up to a little bit higher... maybe 320 or so I figure by the time I get to 150-160 hp. But that said I have not snapped anything in the rear axle of my current pig using a mini truck rear. I have tweaked it a few times but I think an 80 series will hold up fine. I am not sure if it will if I get the fancy ISB engine, we'll see. I think it'll probably be fine IMO... I was planning on getting some sort of aftermarket shafts for the rear (probably on all 4 corners) to beef it up a little...

[dieselcruiserhead]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

Andre you manky git. One thing I've liked about your truck was just how it's exactly not what you've described.

Gonna be around Sunday?

yup see you then..

[KliersLC]

The mini truck diffs aren't as prone to breakage as the 80 series, I am not sure of the specifics but I know that I yanked countless times in reverse on a buddies S10 blazer in my 81 mini and didn't break a thing, while some folks in the 80 forum have broken their diffs trying to pull out a stock wrangler in reverse. Food for Thought.....
Dan

[dieselcruiserhead]

cool good to know. I know for a fact the diff itself is stronger just in size. It is the axles I am worried about a little bit.. Anywhoo...


I guess sale is pending it appears...

[KliersLC]

Some more info on the 80 series front axle, it also appears that Christo has had some bad luck with his, you might ping him and see what he reccommends.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.p...ht=broken+diff
http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.p...t=reverse+diff
http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.p...t=reverse+diff

[ridgerunner]

60 axle widened to the width of an 80 with 80 inner axles and longfields. Problem solved.

[dieselcruiserhead]

that would work.. We'll see how this diff hold up. I had no idea it was such a liability... Bummer because I wreak havoc on my current setup, I pull people out every which way all the time and definetely generally use the truck as a utility workhorse, much like it was originally designed to be used IMO See how it goes, and maybe take the radical step of doing something like this later if it becomes an issue...

[RHINO]

dre i dont know i'd even bother with 80 axles in your diesel, i think money would be better spent on DANA.

now the suspension, are you saying all the late model SUV's cant carry a load or drive down the road nicely?? everyone one i look under is a 5 link coiler. (four link with panhard) all i'm saying is the 80 stuff is nice, but you could do ALOT better IMOP.

[Rescue Wagon]

I would agree on the Dana's. Dana 60 front and 70 rear.....

OOOPPPSSS....thats my diesel pig project.

Plus the dana's are in most junkyards and who needs lockers with a diesel.

[KliersLC]

Its really the front that has the problem.......

and wouldn't the 60/70 be a bit wide fer the ol porker?

[ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by Rescue Wagon

Plus the dana's are in most junkyards and who needs lockers with a diesel.

I need lockers with my diesel.

[ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by KliersLC

Its really the front that has the problem.......

and wouldn't the 60/70 be a bit wide fer the ol porker?

Actually, what is the width of most chevy front ends, around 64 inches? An 80 axle is what 63"?

EDIT: Actually, Brian, your memory is failing, since a Chevy front is 67" and the rear is 64".

I'd like to build some HD axles someday, but I don't want them to say DANA on them. I'll probably never get around to it though. And when a 8" rear end can hold up to the torque of the 4BT, why wouldn't a LC diff, expecially when the 8" failures are due to the housing design?

[dieselcruiserhead]

Well I kind of like the toy stuff actually.. Is that weird? I honestly thought that my mini truck rear end would never hold up at all, but it has for the most part.. So even though I have these higher torque numbers, I honestly don't think its as bad as well all make it seem IMO, I think we kind of focus on the broken things and call things "weak" and definetely have a propencity for overbuilding.. You can quote me on this later when I am broken all over the place

Basically I have been running a 8" diff for three years now. The housing has been an issue here and there, but the axles / diff have held up great. I am pretty sure the cruiser 9" is hands down stronger. At least in the rear where I think it matters a little more... So that is why I was concerned about the axles. We'll see about up front I guess. I have thought a lot about different axles dana this and that, I have actually been thinking and reading for years now here and on pirate... Plus the huge added cost. I could $5G into axles alone easily. Which IMO, at least for this rig, is ridiculous IMO..

So that is my $.02 on it for now. I don't think I have too bad a plan IMO... Plus there is always chromoly of course..

[PabloCruise]

Originally Posted by dieselcruiserhead

Well I kind of like the toy stuff actually.. Is that weird?

Not weird at all. That is why I went through all to put 60 series PS on the 40...

[Rescue Wagon]

I have climbed many a hill with a granny low 5-speed man, NP205, 3.54's in the 60/70, 33's, and no lockers.

And as for the width of the Dana 60/70 there are many ways to deal with this issue. The easiest would be getting wheels with a different back space.

The way I am dealing with the Dana 60/70 width on my pig is: swap the Single Rear Wheel Hubs for Dual Rear Wheel Hubs and then I am running Humvee wheels which have a 7 1/2" back space. This will also allow me to do a cross-over steering conversion and run a high-steer setup.

Just one idea.

[KliersLC]

Why not put Brians portals underneath it???

[dieselcruiserhead]

They are great but won't fit with the deep 4BT (because you have to be sprung over) and are geared really really low... It would take some serious street gearing to get them back up to highway speed, at least an overdrive trans plus a ranger I figure... Otherwise I like them a lot they are just killer! Andre

[Waggoner5]

Andre, I think its an awesome project. I would use all the 80 series stuff I could. The axles are not an issue. The front, built right is as strong as any Dana 44 and probably closer to a stock 60, especially when you are going to run 35" tires. The rear full float is also very strong. I wheeled with Mark at Moab and he did some crazy stuff BACKWARDS where I knew he was going to $hit the front diff, but nothing happened. Stay 80 series, use bolt on parts and have fun with it. Use 4340 Birfs and inners and 4.56 gears with the 35's and you will love it. The overall truck weight will be the factor to think about when thinking of carnage. The reason people break 80 series parts are two fold. 1st being a 6000 lb truck in trail ready config, 2nd being the 35"+ tires people run. The 2 together is not a good combo for any off the shelf rig. If you build it lighter it will be tough enough.


G

[dieselcruiserhead]

It has somewhat started. Picked up the NV5600, I am waiting a few days for it to be pulled out of the truck. Got it complete with Dodge pattern backing plate (you can change the bolt pattern on these), bellhousing (which I will probably have to replace), flywheel, clutch, slave and master, trans mount, Dodge pattern starter, all for $2100. All with about 36K miles on them.

Bought a built Dana 300 for $700 off PBB. If I want gears it will be another $600 and I need to get the correct input shaft for $300. So it adds up. I will be $1600 into this t-case easily. But it will be built and 4:1.

Finally of course my Lincoln 135 is not up to snuff for this project. So I have been looking at welders. Looks like I will end up with the Millermatic DVI model, sort of like a 175 on roids, not quite a 210. Going to sell the Lincoln for $500 and basically have all the functionality (minus as much portability being the only loss) for $500 more, plus a 230amp machine, brand new. So I am pretty psyched about that.

I have also been looking at the wrecked 80. I have to pull the right rear hub off because the 6 lug studs sheared off in the wreck! The chassis needs to be rolling before they put it on the machine to see if the frame is straight. That will be $90 to check. I can't believe the extent of the damaga (KliersLC's old 80, the one wrecked from the u-haul trailer). If its straight I will take it. Also got a better deal on the frame from him. I might help him swap the engine / trans / t-case from this 80 into his current 80 for some trade.

Going up to Oregon over Mem weekend to pickup the new 55. Not super pretty as it sits (on some Dukes of Hazard rims) but is pretty close to rust free... I will start posting up pics of these things as they materialize...

[PabloCruise]

They made Dukes of Hazzard rims for Cruisers?!?

I am sooooo there dude!

Good luck Andre!