Biodiesel Piggie #2 Buildup (was Sad Sad day...)

dieselcruiserhead · 06-06-06, 02:09 AM

And finally, we also had time for a quick trip this weekend into the southern part of the Uintahs which is a mountain range near here. Just gorgous of course.. It was a friend's birthday and about 20 people showed up for a party way out in the middle of nowhere... Damon (guy with the BJ42), Carrie (the GF) and me all rallied in her camper which we also spent a good amount of time on, on Saturday.. I welded up a pretty nasty exhaust leak and we pulled out some of the nasty old rotten wood, then stayed in the camper for the first time. Also put about 150 miles on it, it rallies around pretty good actually

And my buddies nice Utah-clean bone stock 1974 FJ40 other than an OME lift... He drove it all the way out there getting about 8-10 mpg, ouch... The camper actually got about 13 surprizingly...

dieselcruiserhead · 06-06-06, 02:13 AM

so thats about it... As I keep truckin away of course I'll post some more... Hope this isn't too boring for most of you guys

GLTHFJ60 · 06-06-06, 10:52 AM

Wow. Absolutely amazing build up.

What's the deal with the hand priming mechanism on teh 42? Is it a hand operated way of pressurizing the fuel system before start up? That is neat.

dieselcruiserhead · 06-06-06, 01:08 PM

Basically, all diesels need to have absolutely no air in the their system... The primer pump is a push lever system that pushes fuel through the system so you can bleed air out of it later, similar to how you bleed a brake system. On 3B's (and 2H's) the actual pump lever is known for leaking after a few years. In this case 22

Diesels have a mechanical "lift pump" similar to a 2F actually that also has a mechanical "lift pump" or fuel pump. Its only purpose is to take engine from the tank and deliver to the carb or fueling mechanism. On a diesel, the priming system I am mentioning is on the lift pump.

A little diesel tutorial if anyone is interested:

The lift pump then pushes fuel to the actual 'fuel pump,' that takes place of pretty much everything on a gasser: the carb/FI system, distributor, ignition system (plugs etc), all in one unit. Basically, gassers take in air and fuel together, compress, then use the spark plug to detonate. A diesel takes in air only, compresses that air only to more than twice the pressure of a gasser, then (when a spark plug would normally fire if were a gasser) the main fuel pump injects a tiny amount of diesel fuel in a wide spray pattern. The pressure and heat of the compressed air is so great that the fuel instantly combusts, so no spark plug required.

This is also why diesels suffer from poor starting in cold weather versus a gasser unless the engine itself and its starting aids (glow plugs, etc) are all in tip top shape. Glowplugs basically heat the fuel and combustion chambers before the engine starts and slightly when running on some models.

In between the fuel pump and the injectors are hard, prebent metal lines (usually brass) go to each injector, so 4 injectors and 4 fuel lines on a 4 cyl, 6 and 6 on a 6, etc. Then the whole think is timed very carefully to the engine via a gear so it knows precisely when to fire. The fuel pump adds more fuel (and pressure) into the brass lines to each injector precisely when the fuel is supposed to be squirted into each cyl. The injector is tuned to release the fuel at a certain pressure so it releases at the given moment the fuel pump adds more fuel to the line. And the fuel pump always keeps that fuel at a certain (usually very high) pressure. Naturally, the throttle is on the actual fuel pump this is what controls reving and power in diesels: simply adding fuel...

This is why air is bad for diesels, because it will compress and throw the whole thing off. Just like a brake line.

The main fuel pump is also surprizingly reliable for what it does, it really is the 'heart' of the system. But this is also why it is susceptable to issues like fuel properties and things like that.. Because diesels have an injector for each cyl, even a completely mechanical diesel (like a 4BT, or a pretty much most diesels before 1995-1998ish including 3B/13B-T/2H/12H-T/1HZ/1HD-T/) still act like a fuel injected gas engine in that they run at any angle and no bogging etc. This is because there is no carb to bog down. But other than that they are suprizingly similar to gas engines, they are afterall still internal combustion engines, they still have heads and valves and pistons and blocks and oil pans and all that jazz...

A guess a little tutorial on diesels...

But they sure are cool as you can tell, I am pretty into them

Radd Cruisers · 06-06-06, 11:33 PM

Ooooh, BJ42s only had a half dozen and a couple were 1984s with interior hood latch.

Looking good, got your work cut out for ya.... hey kid.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieselcruiserhead

So that is about it... Also my buddy with the BJ42 stopped by to fix his leaky primer pump hand-priming mechanism. It was so tight that he had to remove the battery tray to get at it.. . This was a few days ago... We also replaced his exhaust manifold gasket this afternoon as well...

Radd Cruisers · 06-06-06, 11:38 PM

Lengthy speal, to late and tired to read the rest of it, but the toyota does not need all the air out of the system before firing. Hardy little 3Bs can start with a little air in the system. Put your foot to the floor and it will purge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieselcruiserhead

Basically, all diesels need to have absolutely no air in the their system... The primer pump is a push lever system that pushes fuel through the system so you can bleed air out of it later, similar to how you bleed a brake system. On 3B's (and 2H's) the actual pump lever is known for leaking after a few years. In this case 22

Diesels have a mechanical "lift pump" similar to a 2F actually that also has a mechanical "lift pump" or fuel pump. Its only purpose is to take engine from the tank and deliver to the carb or fueling mechanism. On a diesel, the priming system I am mentioning is on the lift pump.

A little diesel tutorial if anyone is interested:

The lift pump then pushes fuel to the actual 'fuel pump,' that takes place of pretty much everything on a gasser: the carb/FI system, distributor, ignition system (plugs etc), all in one unit. Basically, gassers take in air and fuel together, compress, then use the spark plug to detonate. A diesel takes in air only, compresses that air only to more than twice the pressure of a gasser, then (when a spark plug would normally fire if were a gasser) the main fuel pump injects a tiny amount of diesel fuel in a wide spray pattern. The pressure and heat of the compressed air is so great that the fuel instantly combusts, so no spark plug required.

This is also why diesels suffer from poor starting in cold weather versus a gasser unless the engine itself and its starting aids (glow plugs, etc) are all in tip top shape. Glowplugs basically heat the fuel and combustion chambers before the engine starts and slightly when running on some models.

In between the fuel pump and the injectors are hard, prebent metal lines (usually brass) go to each injector, so 4 injectors and 4 fuel lines on a 4 cyl, 6 and 6 on a 6, etc. Then the whole think is timed very carefully to the engine via a gear so it knows precisely when to fire. The fuel pump adds more fuel (and pressure) into the brass lines to each injector precisely when the fuel is supposed to be squirted into each cyl. The injector is tuned to release the fuel at a certain pressure so it releases at the given moment the fuel pump adds more fuel to the line. And the fuel pump always keeps that fuel at a certain (usually very high) pressure. Naturally, the throttle is on the actual fuel pump this is what controls reving and power in diesels: simply adding fuel...

This is why air is bad for diesels, because it will compress and throw the whole thing off. Just like a brake line.

The main fuel pump is also surprizingly reliable for what it does, it really is the 'heart' of the system. But this is also why it is susceptable to issues like fuel properties and things like that.. Because diesels have an injector for each cyl, even a completely mechanical diesel (like a 4BT, or a pretty much most diesels before 1995-1998ish including 3B/13B-T/2H/12H-T/1HZ/1HD-T/) still act like a fuel injected gas engine in that they run at any angle and no bogging etc. This is because there is no carb to bog down. But other than that they are suprizingly similar to gas engines, they are afterall still internal combustion engines, they still have heads and valves and pistons and blocks and oil pans and all that jazz...

A guess a little tutorial on diesels...

But they sure are cool as you can tell, I am pretty into them

dieselcruiserhead · 06-07-06, 12:29 AM

cool same with the cummins. I call it "driving through.." Depends on how much air usually, but I have run out of fuel with bad angles off road on my former HJ60 and had to bleed...

dieselcruiserhead · 06-09-06, 11:04 AM

not much to report other than we had fun cutting the roof off the 80 with our new sawzall.. I kind of want to take the 80 apart ASAP but I want to get it running to make sure the engine is AOK before we sell it to make sure the engine has good compression... And I think we may even use this thing for a quick dump run this weekend or early next week. We also straightened up the shop including some new shelving which sucked a lot of the misc items I have had all over the damn place into one convient place, nice to finally have the shop semi-organized..

KliersLC · 06-11-06, 10:47 PM

Hey, back from vacation and I'll send the keys tomorrow, its a bit sad seeing the 80 like that

, but I'm glad that you, Dave, and Simon are getting some use out of it. That rear shock mount didn't drag for more than about 100 feet, but it did have the weight of the 55 and trailer on it, as well as 4 doors, two fenders, a front axle, tanny and case, springs, driveshafts and a tailgate, wouldn't take much dragging with all that weight on it.

Anyhow, looks good so far, when you get the keys make sure to pull the plugs and bow out the oil. the last time I laid it over every single drop of oil had run into the intake. I don't know how long it sat on the roof before they got it righted, but just beware of that (as if you didn't know already)

Dan

dieselcruiserhead · 06-12-06, 11:25 AM

Hey Dan good to hear from you and welcome back... Hate to say it but I sort of got impatient so I started tearing into it aggressively and I've reached a point where I don't think she'll ever see the road again unfortunately.... I will pull the plugs and clean out and do a compression test but probably after I pull the engine. theBut that said I would still like the keys whenever you get a chance as I think I'll be using the steering column from the 80 in the new 55.... Thanks and appreciated.. PS I also found all sorts of neat bullets, 9MM hollow point, you name it.. Nice

Yesterday I spend about 8 hours on it doing the tear down.. Again, to keep the harness in tact, it has come close to requireing almost a complete dissassembly and I have the harness about 95% out... My buddy Damon keeps calling it the big black python because it is just so huge.. It is amazing to me how complex the wiring is, etc, to keep all those great gizmos going in the 80.. I will probably be using the ignition circuitry (start etc, or at least the plugs into the steering column), the heater and heater core assuming it all fits in the 55, the lockers and diff lock computer / switch etc, and probably the electric 809 series seats. Then there are a few other small goodies. I am also considering putting the lock catches from the 80 simiar to how Buckroseau did with his FJ45 in his awesome FJ45 buildup thread...

dieselcruiserhead · 06-12-06, 11:31 AM

Here are some photos of the 80 dash and harness.. You can see how inticate it is. There are literally about 30-40 plugs maybe on the whole harness, many of which have as many as 30 or 40 wires going into them. At the thickest point of the harness, behind the dash, it is maybe 2.5" thick in wires.. Not like an old school Land Cruiser at all of course... If you look closely you can see my masking tape all over the place marking where what goes into what... I did a pretty good job keeping it labelled but it will still be a heck of a job to wire one of these into a different cruiser IMO... But that said the whole engine / trans / t case / harness / computer / accessories combo is for sale for anyone interested...

I also removed all the carpeting etc (which was all very easy) and I think I am going to sawzall the back body off first to get closer access to the frame. I need to remove the gas tank first before I can do that though.. there is also still one last piece of harness for the tailights and tailgate left in the rear. Even back there there are still 40-50 wires, unreal compared to my former 55 which maybe had 10-15 wires including the rear window and e-locker?

dieselcruiserhead · 06-12-06, 11:34 AM

The bulk of the harness and dash completely removed for the most part. I have to drain the coolant before I remove the heater core / AC system.. Which I hope will fit in the 55...

dieselcruiserhead · 06-12-06, 11:37 AM

Here is the steering console and the shedded up seat that I will probably use regardless.. I have a pretty clean grey rear seat to match and I think evenually I'll get them all reupholstered regardless... And I think I will reuse the 80 series center console as well...

dieselcruiserhead · 06-12-06, 11:39 AM

Finally here is the rear heater that I think I will also use. Again I have to drain the coolant first but but it is a neat setup.. Everyone always says the rear heater is in the center console like a 62 but it is actually under the pass seat and has a port that makes the heat come out of the center console. I am not sure if I'll reuse the center port or not.. But it will be nice ot have a nice late model rear heater instead of the factory early FJ55 rear heaters that most of us have had problems with. Even though I have two FJ55 rear heaters regardless...

dieselcruiserhead · 06-12-06, 11:50 AM

And finally putting another use to the term "as the birfield turns" (which is what we normally use to describe the local cruiser shop scene around here before it all sort of self-imploded :( ) -- Here is a another 55 that belonged to Dan Gositch for a while (Oyhwee Jackess here on 'mud) that I once almost traded a set of tires for except that I didn't need it.. So it then ended up in another local 55 guy's hands, Mike Bordrero, who is a college student up in Logan (about 3 hours north). Then it ended up in another 55 guy hands (Aaron leach). Anywhoo, I need a new hood, windshield, and all sorts of other misc parts including some sensors, etc.. So I think I will be picking this up so it will come full circle. Then I think I will take it to the scappers or something similar after... Pretty funky old '71 I think.. Same dash as me looks like from the rear photo...

dieselcruiserhead · 06-12-06, 11:54 AM

It came from Boise where it is high desert and they don't use a lot of salt so it actually doesn't look to bad either IMO. I am also seeing some other neat stuff to use on the new project: the rear emblems, mirror on the driver's side, possibly a good fender or two??

CTHOR · 06-15-06, 07:00 PM

I was wondering why you went with a NV5600? Besides the cool factor

. The first gear and overdrive are very close to that of the NV4500. I have not driven a cruiser with a NV4500(and you have

) but I do know when towing a skidsteer with the father-in-laws Dodge the closer ratio of the NV5600 keeps you in the power band of the engine. I can't see a cruiser needing that close of a gear ratio between 2nd and 5th.

Ratio Data------ NV-4500------NV-5600

First Gear---------5.61------------5.63
Second Gear-----3.04------------3.38
Third Gear--------1.67------------2.04
Fourth Gear-------1.00------------1.39
Fifth Gear---------0.74------------1.00
Sixth Gear--------n/a-------------0.73

I am about to start collecting parts for my 4bt conversion and my first thought was to go with the NV5600 but figure a NV4500 would be good enough.

Looking forward to seeing the project come along .

And if you are parting out some of those pigs. I am looking for a set of stock rear springs from a 55

KliersLC · 06-16-06, 02:47 PM

I don't know for sure because it isn't my project, but have you noticed the nasty lag between 3rd and 4th on the 4500? Granted, a Dodge truck is heavier than a pig, but it also has a lot more torque and HP than the 4bt. Soooo, having that lag between 3rd and 4th could be troublesome off road, while the 6 speed will allow Andre the perfect gear choice for any situation. That being said, it would only really be relevant if he runs dual cases and I don't remember if he is or not.

Dan

PabloCruise · 06-16-06, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieselcruiserhead

And finally putting another use to the term "as the birfield turns" (which is what we normally use to describe the local cruiser shop scene around here before it all sort of self-imploded :( ) -- Here is a another 55 that belonged to Dan Gositch for a while (Oyhwee Jackess here on 'mud) that I once almost traded a set of tires for except that I didn't need it.. So it then ended up in another local 55 guy's hands, Mike Bordrero, who is a college student up in Logan (about 3 hours north). Then it ended up in another 55 guy hands (Aaron leach). Anywhoo, I need a new hood, windshield, and all sorts of other misc parts including some sensors, etc.. So I think I will be picking this up so it will come full circle. Then I think I will take it to the scappers or something similar after... Pretty funky old '71 I think.. Same dash as me looks like from the rear photo...

Oh for the love of God - how could you take a Pig w/ custom 70's paint to the crusher?!?

PabloCruise · 06-17-06, 05:39 AM

Or at least sell me the tailgate so I can preserve that SICK paint job!

dieselcruiserhead · 06-18-06, 12:13 AM

LOL TJ, I may not crush it, just not sure what I'd do with it.. If there is anything salvagable I'll let you know! Truth behind the 5600 is bling sad enough for the most part. Just cool to have a 6 speed I figure I guess

But that said Kliers (thanks again Dan I got the key today!) is right, the gap particularly between 3rd and 4th is huge. Not too bad but basically with 4.1s and 35's I have been driving it like a 3 speed with an overdrive.. Anyone who has some time in a chevy truck with a SM465 knows what I am talking about, slightly weird gearing. If I were running 3.73s I think it would be a better situation and I would actually use first. And with the NV4500 2nd was a little too fast to start in and first alittle too low. So this way I figure I will return to an actual 5 speed plus a granny low, versus a 3 with an overdrive like it has been. Off road especially in low range the gaps weren't too big. But in high range they became extra noticable because of the more power needed to power all 4 wheels... But that said an NV4500 sure would have been a lot easier and cheaper too and I probably would have done it again. Or like Henry C did which I think is an awesome combo, 3.73s, 4.10, H55F, and a doubler box... But this combo will work well, particularly once/if i get the 4:1 low range gears for the dana 300.. I forgot to mention but I did luck out, the best tran shop in SLC in my opinion is Tourist and they will swap bellhousings and completely rebuild (assuming all my parts are in good shape for $550 complete with bellhousing. And I got the junk yard to refund me $500 towards it so I really lucked out. So for $50 my NV5600 now is completely rebuilt and now has a two year 24,000 mile warantee as well.. I am pretty pyseched aobut this..

Not much to report otherwise. i lost my camera for a few days so no photos. Luckily I found it though.. anyway, dropped the tank and from the t-case back the body is basically ready to come off. Picked up the engine hoist on Weds, I am hoping to pull the drivetrain out of the 80 tomorrow. i can't believe how long this teardown of the 80 has been taking... A little too long but I guess part of the process i suppose...

redcorn · 06-18-06, 11:02 AM

Glad to hear of the tranny luck. I think the Cruiser gods are smiling on you Andre!

Looking forward to this build.

Best of luck.

JOhn

dieselcruiserhead · 06-19-06, 02:35 PM

thanks rugburn appreciated...

Anywhoo, did get a good day of work in yesterday... including.. finally getting the drivetrain out! Pretty psyched about this. Now if I can only sell it. Started a thread on PBB about it, seeing if I can get a good lead on where / how to sell this thing..
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=483781

One step closer to getting the body off. Paint and frame look pretty good so I don't think I'll have to paint them... Also there is lots of neat stuff on the 80 that hopefully I will be able to reuse on the 55.. It will be neat to see how it all comes together..

I also can't believe how complex this whole thing is which is why I think a lot of 80 series guys aren't modifying their rigs as much. Also that they half-way decently setup from the factory but nevertheless. I think it would be a long time I think before I take on any sort of series 80 series mod at least drivetrain wise I think..

Anywhoo, here are some photos from yesterday.. My buddy Dave also stopped by with his immaculate FJ60 that was having some gauge issues (FJ60's have points in the gauges that need to be cleaned occationally I guess.. He is slightly gimpy with a bum knee but helped me out a little here and there..

dieselcruiserhead · 06-19-06, 02:45 PM

I took lots of photos of the motor mounts because ironically a lot of guys on the 4BT list are using 45 degree Dodge 6BT-style mounts instead of the vertical kind that the 4BT reuses from the factory. The 4BT in the breadvans also sits at a 10-15 degree rotation counter clockwise if looking at the engine compartment. On the last pig I reused this rotatino but since I am switching adapter plates to the Dodge one, it will get rid of it so I will need to figure out a motor mount scenario. Most guys are fabbing up their own but I am going to see if there is a semi reasonable cost on simply buying them from Dodge or Cummins rather than spending a lot of time fabbing. Or maybe use the liquid filled mounts that 4BT's come with (here is a sample photo from ebay) that mount vertically so an L-shaped mount similar to my last setup..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cummi...QQcmdZViewItem

dieselcruiserhead · 06-19-06, 02:48 PM

Here is a photo of how I would use the 4BT liquid filled mounts from Henry C's 4BT conversion thread... This was done by proffitt's cruisers...

dieselcruiserhead · 06-19-06, 02:52 PM

Then here are some photos from some guys on the 4BT list using the 6BT mounts. I think the 4BT mounts will isolate vibration better but I will have to fab up a mount on the engine side that doesn't compensate for the 10 degree tilt if I want to use the 4BT style mounts.

Anyway, photo of a 6BT style mount. Also 6BT mounts are ~$30 and readily available versus the 4BT mounts which are rare (maybe I should pickup a spare set if I use them).

dieselcruiserhead · 06-19-06, 02:56 PM

Here are some more from the photos section of the 4BT yahoo group

dieselcruiserhead · 06-19-06, 02:58 PM

So this is why I have a keen interest in the FZJ80 frame motor mounts which could work. But that said I will not mind cutting off the 80 series mounts at all and fabbing up my own, it was probably the funnest part of the last build, so much so that I did it twice

The 80 series:

dieselcruiserhead · 06-19-06, 03:00 PM

finally some pics of the beastly drivetrain pulled...

lowtideride · 06-19-06, 06:01 PM

Hey brudda,
Looks like its coming along well. I got the body off the 80 today, I just have to pull the engine off the frame and start taking the 62 apart to drop on the frame...

http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/57360-project-uranus-3.html

theres the like to the thread...

It sure was fun rolling the 80 series body off

-Al