Newb with Pictures and Questions

Lil'John · 03-02-09, 04:55 PM

Oh

.. the Joe TLC brake kit rears it head again

With the 69, you are close to the ball and claw axle.

If it is ball and claw, you will be worlds ahead tracking down a 76+ FJ40/45/55 front axle and bolting it in.

If it isn't a ball and claw, you can swap newer FJ40/45/55/60/62 or minitruck knuckles out onto your stuff.

The big issues with Joe TLC kit are:

weaker small bolt pattern knuckle. Not an issue if you are just staying stock
keeping small birfs. Not much of an issue if you aren't doing much wheeling.
Still need a non ball and claw axle. Not issue if you don't have one.
Uses large bore 3/4 ton Chevy truck calipers. Need to upgrade master for this.
Unknown flex lines. Not an issue if you believe they last forever

Personally, I'd stick with the tried and true bolt on Toyota "kit".

Hell, for $550, I'd ship you everything you need to your door from my 78 FJ55 with brand new parts(bearings, seals, wheel studs, brakelines, calipers, etc). Only "down" is scored rotors from my own stupidity.

3_puppies · 03-02-09, 05:44 PM

I like staying all Toyota, my opinion only. you can pick up a 60 series knuckles out for $250, (PM if interested, as I'm in Helena). Yes you will need new seals and bearings also, but I'd have a l;ook inside the front end anyway as you have no idea what sharp everything is in.

You'll also have to upgrade to a dual circuit brake system, which is a wise move anyway!

CarmMontana · 03-02-09, 08:15 PM

Lil john, would yo really do that? Send me everything I needed? = ) Cause that sounds pretty good to me! Also when you say Ball and Claw, what are you refering to? I think I know what you are asking but I want to make sure

Lil'John · 03-02-09, 11:23 PM

PM sent on the disc parts.

On the ball and claw, here is a picture from SOR:

If your front axle has this style of inner shafts, the housing requires significant mods to it. But according to SOR, they were last used in 1967 so you should be in good shape.

CarmMontana · 03-03-09, 05:29 AM

Awesome Lil John. I am still thinking about what I want to do but funny story. I just found another 1969 Pig in a town about 2 hours from here and the guy only wants $500 for it. I am waiting on a picture of it before I freak out and drive down there but it may slow down my disc brake conversion as you never know if this thing may just have everything I need to get my Piggie on the road. Anyway I will keep everyone informed. Thanks again for the info guys!

Lil'John · 03-03-09, 10:46 AM

Very cool. If I had the room, I'd jump on something like that too

The brake parts are in a nice tupperware box in storage so no worries.

Pighead · 03-03-09, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarmMontana

I have another question about power steering. Any ideas there and any clue or opinion to what the best/least expensive solution is? Thanks
Carmon

Best and least expensive rarely go together. Especially when you're talking about steering.
Some people are quite satisfied with a 60 power steering box. Some people are not satisfied with the 60 box and change to a Scout box. Some people go straight to the Scout box and skip the middle step. Scout box is more expensive and involved. But I think it is the best.
What I did was download and print all the power steering conversion write-ups. Then read them over and over for a month. Look at the big picture. Only you can decide what is best for your rig.

Pighead · 03-03-09, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarmMontana

. The next question I have is, What is the most cost effective disc brake conversion?
I have been researching different routes you can go, whether that be JT'S GM setup with bracket or Mini truck knuckle swap but my question is what is the best?

Again, no "Cheapest/Best' questions please....
IMNSHO, the miniknuckle/4runnercaliper/60disc is the best setup. Don't know how it compares in price. I did not even consider a GM setup.

CarmMontana · 03-03-09, 01:22 PM

Thanks Pighead. After looking at alot of different setups I think that I need to change my mindset on all of this and go with what is the best, after looking at all the disc brake options I think you guys all made me understand that the bolt on JT stuff isn't all its cracked up to be and after reading a few issues they have had I am scared to even try. The only down side of the miniknucle setup is the down time on the rig but that is something I need to get over, I need this thing to be mechanically sound before I go play... So Pighead when you say Miniknuckle, what all does that involve, if I were to go pull this off a salvaged truck what all would I want to take?

Lil'John · 03-03-09, 01:48 PM

What pig describes is almost exactly what I've offered

Basically, you take everything from the minitruck axle but the housing, third member, and inner axle shafts and bolt them to yours.

The difference in downtime between the JTO "bolt on" and using toyota stuff is very minimal... say one hour

The only three notable differences are removing the knuckles, grinding the balls on the housing for the new birfields, and replacing the birfields. Otherwise, doing the JTO kit is the same amount of work.

I spent a long weekend doing a full rebuild on my front axle. This was stripping it down, cleaning/painting everything but the housing, replacing spring bushings, and then bolting it back on. That included screwing up an inner axle seal and having to run around on a Sunday looking for one

Pighead · 03-03-09, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarmMontana

So Pighead when you say Miniknuckle, what all does that involve, if I were to go pull this off a salvaged truck what all would I want to take?

It involves a fair amount of research and independent study. I'm not going to spoon-feed it to you.
Lil' John has offered up a smokin' deal.
You MIGHT be able to put your own package together locally and save two bucks.
But you won't find it easier. I can vouch for Lil'John and his good taste in parts.

3_puppies · 03-03-09, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarmMontana

Awesome Lil John. I am still thinking about what I want to do but funny story. I just found another 1969 Pig in a town about 2 hours from here and the guy only wants $500 for it. I am waiting on a picture of it before I freak out and drive down there but it may slow down my disc brake conversion as you never know if this thing may just have everything I need to get my Piggie on the road. Anyway I will keep everyone informed. Thanks again for the info guys!

is that the one on craigslist in Missoula??? sat for years in a field before he got it?

with NO TITLE, that's why I passed on it.

Lil'John · 03-03-09, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pighead

It involves a fair amount of research and independent study. I'm not going to spoon-feed it to you.
Lil' John has offered up a smokin' deal.
You MIGHT be able to put your own package together locally and save two bucks.
But you won't find it easier. I can vouch for Lil'John and his good taste in parts.

Thanks for the vote there Pighead

Minitruck swap is the same as FJ40/45/55/60/62 swap.

Dumbed down a ton:

You strip your axle to the housing with a third member in it. Throw everything you pulled off away except for the inner axle shafts.
Put the birfields from the axle you are stealing disk brakes onto your inner axle shafts.
Bolt the rest of donor disk brake parts on... basically reverse of step one but with the donor parts

Here is a picture for step 2:

You keep 57 and 58 from your old axle and slam 54 from the donor rig.

Here is a picture of the rest of the parts that get replaced:

as well as:

FWIW, knuckle rebuild kits are around $75... wheel bearings are around $80 for both sides. Rotors are $50 each I think... and calipers are $50ish each not including core. Tie rod ends are like $25 each. That's new/rebuilt parts

CarmMontana · 03-04-09, 08:52 AM

Hey 3 not sure if it is the same one or not but here is the link, I am not gonna mess with it. The thing looks rough. I will post a pic as soon as I get off work today..

1969 fj55 Toyota Land Cruiser

Thanks again guys for all the help. I am gonna research my butt off this week and try to get my head around the idea of how this works. You guys have helped a bunch but I want to make sure I know what I am doing before I just tear the thing down. I may go ahead and do the power steering first as I think I have that down.

CarmMontana · 03-04-09, 09:26 AM

So quick question, will mini truck axles just swap right in to a fj55? And if so would that be a bad move? I have a guy telling me that I could do that and get both axles from a parts truck with all disc brakes and be better off. Yes No? Just want to make sure...

Lil'John · 03-04-09, 09:42 AM

Like any other axle swap, sure it is possible with enough work

If the minitruck is stock, the rear will be drum

Plus, you have the whole centered differential issue.

As for the rest, I believe the minitruck axle was setup spring over while stock FJ is spring under.

I am also unsure of the offset of the third member in the front so you may end up with differential to spring interference.

CarmMontana · 03-05-09, 06:55 AM

Well I got my question answered on the axle swap and I am just gonna try and pick up a cheap axle from a friend here in Kalispell and do the knuckle conversion. Found one for 100, that price seems pretty reasonable to me and I will use the 80 series vented rotors with the 4 runner calipers, that is what I was told is the best. If anyone thinks otherwise let me know. Thanks lil John for the offer on parts but that shipping would kill me... I will see what I can get local and if it doesn't work out I will definitely let you know.

CarmMontana · 03-07-09, 04:45 PM

Ok guys. I have another question. Has anyone ever built their own shackles? I only ask because as I am taking apart my cruiser's front axle I noticed that they really do not look that complex. I work for a place that has a fabrication shop and was wondering if anyone has ever done this. I will not make them, as I am not that great of a welder but I know a few exceptional ones and the only thing I can think is that it may be a safety hazard, thoughts?

laguna80 · 03-08-09, 05:12 AM

I know that there are plenty of people on mud that have made their own.

OinkOinker · 03-08-09, 05:25 AM

the only thing i can think of being an issue is if you make big (+2or3") shackels you would want to use a higher grade of steel than your run of the mill mild steel, maybe some 4140 or better?? my 2cents

Pighead · 03-09-09, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laguna80

I know that there are plenty of people on mud that have made their own.

Yup. I do know that Don (FC Fabrications) made some gorgeous shackles for his 55 project...see if you can find a pic either here or POR...have your fabricator friend shamelessly copy them.

CarmMontana · 03-11-09, 02:47 PM

Ok so i am stripping the interior to start prep for the adventure of rust removal and noticed that I have no clue how the back seat backrest attaches. When I bought it, the backrest was folded down and it didn't occur to me to ask how to attach it to the brackets there. I just want to make sure I understand how it works mechanically before I start taking everything out for sandblasting and paint. If anyone has a picture from the old manual I would really appreciate it. Thanks Pics to come as soon as the this stinking snow storm stops!

Pighead · 03-12-09, 10:13 AM

Not sure that Pighead understands the question. Are we talking abot the two pylon-type things that bolt to the rear fenderwells with the built-latches that the seat back gets held in place when up with? Or the rear seat hinges? Or the latch on the floor?
More description, or even pics of what you got would help.
Pighead did notice that there were pics of the pylon-type things with the built-in latches on badass' "build" thread elsewhere in this section...

inkpot · 03-12-09, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarmMontana

Ok guys. I have another question. Has anyone ever built their own shackles? I only ask because as I am taking apart my cruiser's front axle I noticed that they really do not look that complex. I work for a place that has a fabrication shop and was wondering if anyone has ever done this. I will not make them, as I am not that great of a welder but I know a few exceptional ones and the only thing I can think is that it may be a safety hazard, thoughts?

Howdy! I built mine from 2" angle iron. I rounded off the bottom corners so they won't snag on the rocks. I put a crossbar on mine at the center so they make an "H". Some guys leave that off so they can get a little more flex. John

CarmMontana · 03-12-09, 09:18 PM

hey John, you wouldn't by any chance have a picture of those would you? I have tons of that laying around. Did your pig get retired, i remember reading a bunch of stuff on your rig.

inkpot · 03-13-09, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarmMontana

hey John, you wouldn't by any chance have a picture of those would you? I have tons of that laying around. Did your pig get retired, i remember reading a bunch of stuff on your rig.

Howdy! No digital pix yet, but I might be able to snap a couple over the weekend. My Piggy is on extended Furlough right now. I cracked the frame under the Saginaw PS box, so I am building up a sub-frame to hang in there. It it taking way too long to finish up, just too many other things going on in life. No chance on retirement for this Piggy, as I have only had it for 23 years, and I plan on keeping it on the trail/road for at least that much longer. John

CarmMontana · 03-13-09, 08:12 PM

Awesome. That is good to hear John. I am going to take a bunch of pics tomorrow to see if any of them can help with my random questions that I have had. I also got all the minitruck stuff today to start on my disc brake setup... I am really stocked about that.

CarmMontana · 03-13-09, 09:53 PM

Ok. So I have been sitting down and reading all I can on the front disc conversion stuff and I am a little confused. I am waiting on some axle rebuild kits to come in but I have a few concerns/questions. I picked up a mini truck axle 82' and the master cylinder and booster with lines from an 85'. I know that once I get into it I may have some issues on the lines hooking up etc as I may not have gotten all that I needed but I am a little confused about the idea of a portioning valve sp?. I am not really sure what that does for you, am I crazy to think that you wouldn't need it as mini trucks had disc front and drum backs... seems counterproductive. Also i can only find one write up about installing a booster on a 71 fj40 and he is saying you have to move the clutch cylinder... really? That doesn't seem right. Any input guys, sry lots of questions.

3_puppies · 03-13-09, 10:46 PM

I don't think you need the proportioning valve, that is more for 4 wheel disc to keep the rears from locking up, by reducing the preasure that goes to the rear. If your thinking residual valve, the mini master won't have one as you stated disc front and drum rear.

The firewall on a 55 is different than a 40. It will probably take a little fab work to get the booster to fit properly. Not sure if you'll need to add a plate on the firewall for added strength?? You will need to seperate you brake lines front and rear, you should have a single circuit brake system now and need to go to the dual.

Pighead · 03-14-09, 09:06 AM

X2 on no need for a proportioning valve. I don't have one, brakes are great,