fj60 power steering for pigs

2manycruisers · 01-07-07, 09:54 PM

I searched and found just a couple threads, but nothing very detailed. I want to put 60 ps on my 55, but want to make sure I'm prepared. Engine is out, so I figure it's a good time to do it. Anyone have a detailed writeup and/or pics?
Mine will be 2f powered and sprung *under*. Stock suspension now, hope for custom springs down the road, still SUA, and 33s or 35s.

What parts do I need? I have an '83 fj60 box, column, shaft, pitman arm, hoses. I think I gave away the fj60 drag link. I'm using fj-60 knuckles for disk brake conversion, but have '79 fj-40/55 steering arms to retain the fj-40/55 tie rod. I could go with the 60 arms and shorten a 60 tie rod if it's better to fit the 60 drag link?
What about shock towers? Are F-250 towers the standard? Anyone have a p/n or model year to ask for?
I'm swapping in an fj-60 2f and have the stock p/s pump. Should I keep it or go ahead and use a saginaw pump?

Any other advice or resources?
thanks,

scouthead · 01-08-07, 02:18 AM

I put a 60's box on my '76 FJ55 earlier this year...
Very happy with it untill the box started leaking last week. Mine is also 2F and all stock at the moment.
I would suggest you use as much of the FJ60 stuff as possible...The 60s use larger rod ends than the 55s; also larger tie rod and drag link, so mixing stuff gets tricky. I ended up with a draglink that's half 55, and half 60 and will need to have a custom 1 piece made at some point unless converting to all FJ60 stuff later. Just do it now. 60 stuff is probably cheaper and definately easier to find. My steering arms are not interchangable with 60 series knuckles, nut '79 40 series might be...if so might have the same rod ends? I built my own tower,but put too much time into it(for something that might ultimately need to be changed again after lifting), don't have any #s for the ford towers but might have been easier. I used 3/4 inch pipe to extend the male half of lower column's slip joint about 11 inches(splines on old U-joint matched to the 60 box's spud shaft).
If you have the 60's mount and pump, use it. Everything will have the same fitting, and it will save you a bunch of headache in the long run. They have a reputation for leaking, but this coming mostly from people who repeatedly buy used ones( that leak soon after installing because they are old and used). If you already have it-use it. If it fails buy a NEW one and it should last.
If I can figure out how to make my photo files smaller, I'll post a few...

Luke111 · 01-08-07, 04:23 AM

Call or email Lance at Ironpig offroad he just did one on my 55. I do not have pics yet and the trucks 60 miles away at thier shop.

PabloCruise · 01-08-07, 06:30 AM

Nat put this on his Pig, and had some pics up...

Paging Nat!

RHINO · 01-08-07, 09:40 AM

i used a sag pump, but if you have the toy stuff might as well keep it. when i put mine in i used the 55 column, just needed to lengthen it a bit but bolted right on the 60 box. i kept the 60 arm and drag link and fitted it to the steering arm on the knuckle, i have crossover steering but it takes a toy TRE so its all the same as non crossover. to mount the box i drilled through the frame and welded in sleeves through the holes to both frame sides. i did not use any plate to reinforce, i just did excactly what the factory did with the 60 series. this pic is w/o shock so you can see the box,,, i made a custom shock mount for that side, was gonna put in ford towers but changed my mind
need any more info let me know.

2manycruisers · 01-08-07, 02:40 PM

Good info so far.
What needs lengthened on the column, the main shaft so the driveshaft still fits? (IIRC mine has a steering shaft with 2 ujoints, or am I wrong?)

If I go with 60 knuckles I would probably have to shorten the stock 60 tie rod and the drag link both, as opposed to a hybrid drag link with 60 on one end and 40/55 on the other if I use the stock 40/55 tie rod, does that sound right?

I'll contact IPOR, I couldn't find anything on their website for 60 steering last night.

Scouthead, it's easy to replace seals on a 60 ps box. Both of my last 60s blew seals as soon as I swapped to v8 and saginaw pumps.

RHINO · 01-08-07, 07:01 PM

yes i lengthened the shaft about 2" i think?? if using 60 series tie rod/drag you'll need to fine tune length, prolly shorten as you suggest.

uglyoinker · 01-09-07, 11:27 AM

I have the scout box set-up on my pig. I used two ford shock towers. They work great and are cheap as poop. part number is E5TZ-18183-A I believe they were 12 bucks a piece.
jake

n2666s · 01-10-07, 11:38 AM

have decided to go with Lance's setup as it is totally bolt-on; will try to get pix out but they are here somewhere on the forum;

Lou

RHINO · 01-10-07, 02:33 PM

i ran the push pull style for a couple years, it works great and is real easy to do. its biggest downfall is big tires, i run 36's and although it held up and worked fine i did have to routinely check and tighten mounting bolts.

scouthead · 01-11-07, 05:21 AM

I'ts good to hear that it's easy to replace the seals on a 60 box...mine is only leaking from the seal on the spud-shaft, so I'm hoping I can replace It without complete disassembly.
I missed the part about your FJ40 arms being '79 arms...will these fit on the 60 knuckles, and have the FJ55 sized taper for your tie-rod? If so, the hibred or custom dragllink starts to look pretty easy(and leave the tie-rod)...Is there some reason you can't just bolt the 60s spindles onto the 55s knuckles and keep the stock steering arms/tie-rod?? Seems like the main reason people want the 60 knuckles(besides a disc brake conversion) is to allow for high-steer arms, and you plan on staying spring under anyways, right?

These pics are before both the leak and getting a stabilizer sqeezed in there...

scouthead · 01-11-07, 05:51 AM

I saw a FJ55 once out of the corner of my eye that appeared to be very clean, so I doubled back and hopped out to take a look. Real clean truck except the driver's side frame rail was twisted...The owner had installed a scout II box on it and it appeared to have just repeatedly stressed and tweaked the frame where the box was mounted,untill it stayed that way...(when I saw it,it was only sitting on 33inch tires)
When I installed the 60 box on mine, I had this in the back of my head. There is no gusset or crossmember in the section of frame where the box needs to be mounted...So I started thinking about maybe running a brace from the front crossmember(diag.) to the inside of the rail, right behind the box. I looked through a few service manuals, and came across a diagram of a 60 series' frame that appeared to show the exact same bracing I was considering building.
I am not really familiar with the 60 series, but got the impression from one of your posts that you might be. Have you ever seen anything like this on one? Just kind of curious because the 55 and 60 series frame diagrams looked very similar, and thought maybe Toyota threw in a gusset to keep the frame straight??

2manycruisers · 01-11-07, 11:31 AM

My 55 is a '74 so the 60 knuckles gets me disk brakes. In 79 Toyota went to the larger bolt pattern on the steering arms, but the rod-end size stayed the same on 40/55s. So, yes, using '79 steering arms will allow me to keep the stock tie rod with the larger pattern knuckles.

Interesting about the twisted frame, I hadn't given that much thought. I guess that's the benefit of push/pull steering mounted there. FJ60 frames are fully boxed and super stout, I've never see a cross brace on one. It might be worthwhile to consider a support such as you described, though. There are similar (in function and mounting location) aftermarket supports made for crack-prone GM truck frames. Might be worth comparing, probably made by Off-Road Unlimited or Off-Road Design. Hmm, how to build it around the pto driveshaft....

Seems like the motor would be a fairly effective crossmember, too, but maybe there's too much flex in the motor mounts.

RHINO · 01-11-07, 03:02 PM

i didnt use any bracing or plating on mine, the 55 frame is everybit stout as the 60 frame. so far i have had no problems, no cracks and no loose bolts, lets hope it stays that way. a buddy of mine put scout power on his 55, he developed a crack but the scout only mounts with 3 bolts, maybe thats the difference?

PabloCruise · 01-11-07, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scouthead

So I started thinking about maybe running a brace from the front crossmember(diag.) to the inside of the rail, right behind the box. I looked through a few service manuals, and came across a diagram of a 60 series' frame that appeared to show the exact same bracing I was considering building.

Any pics/illustrations of this?

I am very interested in seeing more...

Radd Cruisers · 01-11-07, 07:21 PM

I have a couple right hand drive boxes, would they fit inside the frame with the engine???

scouthead · 01-12-07, 02:22 AM

I already had a saginaw box(inside the frame) sitting in the garage, that I wanted to use on my FJ55. Not FJ55 friendly. I don't know what kind of right hand drive boxes you have(FJ60??) but not much room inside the frame for a box(with a 2f anyway). The saginaw is used on FJ40s all the time, but on a 55 it woul require major front crossmember surgery. Another huge issue would have been that the column would have gone right through the motor mount...no easy fix there.
Curious about the right hand drive boxes though. If the box sits above the frame like my 60 box, and bolts to the frame around the sector shaft like my 60 box, it might be doable...

2manycruisers · 01-13-07, 11:20 PM

I started dismantling today. I progress at a glacial pace--with so many other distractions around the house (mostly 2 kids) I don't get a lot of continuous time to work on it--so don't expect to see the finished product up here right away. But THANK YOU Toyota for bolting on the box/shock mount! Much easier than chiseling or torching off the pillar like the 40s. Wonder why they bolt this one on instead of riveting?

2manycruisers · 01-14-07, 11:27 AM

The Ford towers fit shocks with eyes at the top instead of pins, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by uglyoinker

I used two ford shock towers. They work great and are cheap as poop. part number is E5TZ-18183-A I believe they were 12 bucks a piece.
jake

nuclearlemon · 01-14-07, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2manycruisers

The Ford towers fit shocks with eyes at the top instead of pins, right?

yes.

2manycruisers · 01-14-07, 04:12 PM

Scouthead, did you locate your steering box using one of the original shock tower bolts (the lower right steering box bolt in your pics above)? or is that bolt in between the original two? Trying to figure out how close to allow the tie rod and drag link to get.
thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by scouthead

I'ts good to hear that it's easy to replace the seals on a 60 box...mine is only leaking from the seal on the spud-shaft, so I'm hoping I can replace It without complete disassembly.
I missed the part about your FJ40 arms being '79 arms...will these fit on the 60 knuckles, and have the FJ55 sized taper for your tie-rod? If so, the hibred or custom dragllink starts to look pretty easy(and leave the tie-rod)...Is there some reason you can't just bolt the 60s spindles onto the 55s knuckles and keep the stock steering arms/tie-rod?? Seems like the main reason people want the 60 knuckles(besides a disc brake conversion) is to allow for high-steer arms, and you plan on staying spring under anyways, right?

These pics are before both the leak and getting a stabilizer sqeezed in there...

scouthead · 01-15-07, 02:03 AM

I placed the box with the arch of the pitman arm over the tie-rod, so that the tie-rod wouldn't hit the end of the sector shaft if the axle moved up far enough. The top rear hole drilled for the box goes right between the sides of the motor mounts, and the bolt has to go through from the outside, and the nut is inside the mount. I welded a small plate to the inside of the rail, because one of the front holes went right between two existing holes. I may have also drilled through a nut that was welded to the inside of the frame somewhere...
I built the shock mount so it could be pushed right up against the box, and it leans forward positioning the top of the shock very close to where it's stock location(maybe 1/2 inch outboard) was. It reused the rear two holes on the top of the frame, and one or two of the ones on the side. Next time I'll just weld something to the frame but I was thinking about ease of removal(just in case).
I also drilled out the holes on the box(just a little) so that I could use 1/2inch hardware instead of $metric$.

scouthead · 01-15-07, 02:08 AM

With regards to how close the tie-rod and draglink are...There's about twice the clearance the stock setup had ( you could see where the stock setup barely rubbed when the truck got bounced hard).

It all kind of worked like the box had been designed for a Landcruiser wagon!

2manycruisers · 01-15-07, 06:29 PM

Thanks. I think I have mine where I want it after some cycling and comparing to stock fj60.

Do you or anyone else know if the tie rod ends and drag link ends for fj-60s have the same taper? i.e. Can I use fj60 tie rod end in the pitman arm? See any benefit to one over the other--the regular rod ends or the multi-piece ones used on the drag link? Does one allow more angularity or anything?

scottryana · 01-15-07, 07:46 PM

I used a diagnal brace, but it was for my panhard mount. I am hoping that it will also work to tie the 2 frame rails together and provide some strength benifit for the 60 steering box. I have seen some nice plates that are welded to the frame with sleeved bolt holes. I didn't take the time nor did Ihave the room with the coilover towers to plate the frame. If anyone has any good photos of 55 frames failing with 60 steering boxes I would love to see them.... Maybe if you are going to be using large 37"+ tires hydro assist is a must?

Ryan

Quote:

Originally Posted by scouthead

I saw a FJ55 once out of the corner of my eye that appeared to be very clean, so I doubled back and hopped out to take a look. Real clean truck except the driver's side frame rail was twisted...The owner had installed a scout II box on it and it appeared to have just repeatedly stressed and tweaked the frame where the box was mounted,untill it stayed that way...(when I saw it,it was only sitting on 33inch tires)
When I installed the 60 box on mine, I had this in the back of my head. There is no gusset or crossmember in the section of frame where the box needs to be mounted...So I started thinking about maybe running a brace from the front crossmember(diag.) to the inside of the rail, right behind the box. I looked through a few service manuals, and came across a diagram of a 60 series' frame that appeared to show the exact same bracing I was considering building.
I am not really familiar with the 60 series, but got the impression from one of your posts that you might be. Have you ever seen anything like this on one? Just kind of curious because the 55 and 60 series frame diagrams looked very similar, and thought maybe Toyota threw in a gusset to keep the frame straight??

scouthead · 01-17-07, 04:13 AM

I'm not sure what the deal is with the multi piece rod ends...I have one on my 55's setup, but I'm going to replace it with a regular rod end the next time I get into it. I think they are just meant to be adjustable/rebuildable, but I think they must add a bit of play, when the springs inside them wear, and the only two I've seen taken apart, were too rusted up to be easily(fully) disasembled.

Scottryana, that's some good cruiser porn right there...I have 31" tires with my FJ60 box and can't imagine running 35" without hydroassist. Just doesn't seem like the box has the same assisting power as a saginaw box. Fine for smaller tires though.

2manycruisers · 01-17-07, 10:47 AM

Have you compared the rod ends? I assume they have the same taper and big/little dimensions, but want to be sure. If I have to do custom rods, I might as well use regular rod ends if they are the same.

A saginaw pump with the fj60 box moves big tires okay. I ran Dana 60s with Detroit Lockers and 36" Swampers under an fj-60 and it worked well. Sometimes the bind of the Detroit would make it hard to turn, but usually a little on/off throttle to unlock it would allow me to turn it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scouthead

I'm not sure what the deal is with the multi piece rod ends...I have one on my 55's setup, but I'm going to replace it with a regular rod end the next time I get into it. I think they are just meant to be adjustable/rebuildable, but I think they must add a bit of play, when the springs inside them wear, and the only two I've seen taken apart, were too rusted up to be easily(fully) disasembled.

Scottryana, that's some good cruiser porn right there...I have 31" tires with my FJ60 box and can't imagine running 35" without hydroassist. Just doesn't seem like the box has the same assisting power as a saginaw box. Fine for smaller tires though.

RHINO · 01-17-07, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scouthead

...I have 31" tires with my FJ60 box and can't imagine running 35" without hydroassist. Just doesn't seem like the box has the same assisting power as a saginaw box. Fine for smaller tires though.

i run 36" and dont have any complaints.

scouthead · 01-17-07, 10:33 PM

I don't have any fj60(non multi-piece rod) ends to compare to the one hanging off my pitman arm, but when I was at Specter Offroad a while back, I was thinking of picking up a few. They had boxes full of used rod ends. All of them appeared to have the same taper...all larger than my stock FJ55 ends.

Maybe I'll try a saginaw pump on my setup, when I lift it and put on some bigger rubber. Or maybe I'll try to find a smaller pulley for my pump...I used a minitruck pump(remote reservoir) so I could cram it in with the smog pump and emission crap.

2manycruisers · 01-18-07, 08:33 AM

Don't bother picking up the rod ends. I pulled a tie rod off a 62 axle last night and the drag link is much larger than the tie rod end. The small d of the taper on the drag link is bigger than the big D of the taper on the rod end.