[Awl_TEQ]

Painting is done - on to the bed

Finished up the rear corner floor welding this afternoon

[Awl_TEQ]

And the front corners


More tomorrow

[Awl_TEQ]

Got a few more hours in today. I had two guys in to finish welding the side panels I have committed to making and I was going to spot weld the first floor together. I need to put the floor and cross-members together to move on to the wheel hump and rear post (which are the only things I haven't actually made yet). Trouble is, I was really hesitant to put 70+ spot welds on while depending solely on my measurements (yeah I triple checked them - minor OCD - but still...).

Soooo.... after the guys went home at lunch time I headed home to get my little utility trailer. Loaded up and took the floor home to test fit on my frame with it just tacked together and able to move bits around if necessary.

[Awl_TEQ]

The rear most mount lines up ok

and the next one forward

This one too - though I have yet to drill the hole in the frame, but there is my mark right through the hole.

[Awl_TEQ]

This is what I really wanted to check. I was worried these humpty-hump cross members wouldn't meet the frame in the right spot but they seem ok. I left room for a strip of rubber and plastic like my original bed had.

This one doesn't line up on purpose. The frame this bed is destined for has a different mount at this location (1963 frame). So it's made to fit that.

And the piece of resistance - the front mount.



So everything looks good, I guess I can read a tape

I'll take it back to the shop tomorrow and weld her up solid. And I can add the corner floors as well. I have a template/ sample wheel hump ready in the flat that I can play with tomorrow too, just a proof of concept to iron out the details and make the mistakes on.

[HJ47]

Kevin,

Have you thought about hot-dip galvanising these beds (or at least the floor...). Given you are in Alberta, and you are planning to use this as a daily driver, that would be a great way to keep the salt at bay. I am not sure how you would prime the outside of the bed in order to get the paint smooth, but you could cover the inside with Rhino Line. If you then galvanised the frame, you would have a fairly salt-proof rig.

If you hear of any law firms looking for corporate/aviation lawyers up there, let me know. If I get the job I will move to Calgary and pay you to teach me your fabrication/welding skills on the weekends. I am continually in awe; I get excited whenever I see a new post to this thread.

Cheers,

Josh

[Awl_TEQ]

Josh! - the president of the Awl-TEQ fan club, Adelaide chapter.

My uncle has an airline. Well just four or five planes. Oilfield hot shot and crew changes. A couple of hangars, licensed structural repair and maintenance facility.

Corrosion

To my knowledge we don't use salt on the roads around here. They use some sort of calcium? solution mixed with sand.

My frame and armor will all be zinc dichromate plated and then powder coated. I was going to do the hot dip but it can leave slag or buildup and the crystalline finish is sometimes visible through the powder. I am considering the zinc dichromate plating for the bed as well. My plater says he can do the whole bed by dipping one side at a time but I doubt he can get enough throw into the nooks and crannies to properly coat everywhere. So I've been thinking of plating each piece individually after welding and then spot welding everything together. That would leave the actual spot welds to worry about because the act of spot welding will vaporize the plating at that spot. But everywhere else would be covered. Then a normal primer/filler/color paint job overtop.

The cab and bed will both be lined under and inside - both sides of the floor so to speak - with a color matched spray on liner.

[HJ47]

Magnesium chloride? That is what Boulder, Co (where I grew up and my folks live) uses on their roads to melt snow. They say it is less corrosive, but it still rusts cars out with considerable vigour.

Surely if they dip the bed in zinc dichromate, they would cover just about everything, no? Is that as effective as galvanising?

I've always dreamt of finding a brand new troopy tub and having it hot dip galvanised, so rust would never be an issue...some people fantasize about naked blondes covered in chocolate sauce, I dream of bare metal troopy tubs covered in zinc. Sometimes I worry myself. Heck, what else am I gonna do down here?

Cheers,

Josh

[a.greenspan]

Originally Posted by HJ47

I've always dreamt of finding a brand new troopy tub and having it hot dip galvanised, I dream of bare metal troopy tubs covered in zinc.
Josh

Forget it ,
I made some parts " hot dipping" would never do it again.
Saw a Citroen 2CV twenty years ago, they dipped the whole car,
( experiment) the car was junk.
Not a backyard company did that, was a company with experience over more than twenty years with galvanising.
The only way to build a galvanised car is, use galvanised steel, than form & weld it - as Audi or Porsche do.
Cheers
Peter

best rust prevention ( wrote it in Mark Merbesfields thread some month ago ) :
http://mike.british-cars.de/rustprevention.htm

[Awl_TEQ]

Originally Posted by HJ47

Surely if they dip the bed in zinc dichromate, they would cover just about everything, no? Is that as effective as galvanising?


Josh

Originally Posted by a.greenspan

Forget it ,
I made some parts " hot dipping" would never do it again.
Saw a Citroen 2cv twenty years ago, they dipped the hole car,
( experiment) the car was junk.
Not a backyard company did that, was a company with experience over more than twenty years with galvanising.
The only way to build a galvanised car is, use galvanised steel, than form & weld it - as Audi or Porsche do.
Cheers
Peter

Hot dip is .... hot. Something like 800-900F molten zinc tub that they just dip stuff in. It would likely warp the material and add 100lbs to it. They charge by weight plus a base fee. Zinc dichromate is an electroplating process. The magnetic currents in the solution are affected by the ferrous material and can prevent the zinc from penetrating inside corners and between spot welded joints (the places where water goes!). My plater says he can do it but I don't want to risk a full bed. I use him for smaller stuff and he does good work so I know he can coat the cross members, brackets, floor sections etc separately.

I am also going to make some parts from pre-coated material we call Satin Coat. It is basically galvanized material with a finer crystal structure that can't be seen. This material has a couple of drawbacks as well. It is terrible to weld because the galvanizing contaminates the weld and causes popping and spitting when the zinc vaporizes. This is a problem with my construction technique because I have a lot of welding. The fumes are also deadly over time. Another problem is when I shear and punch the material the edges are not plated - just raw steel. So there is still rust problems. I can surface grind the weld areas and remove the plating for a clean weld - but how do I treat that then --- plate it? We're back to plating after welding to get all surfaces.

Damn rust


You guys want to know what I'm gonna do to my bed?

Finish each individual part (punch, bend, weld, grind, captured hardware)

Zinc dichromate plating (this will run about $500.00 BTW)

Spot weld together (and a few little TIG welds here and there)

Seam sealer where appropriate

Primer, color matched liner inside and under, paint

Done.

[a.greenspan]

Originally Posted by Awl_TEQ

Hot dip is .... hot.

can only write it in celsius:
this zinc bath has 450 Grad Celsius hot, hot, hot,
you can imagine what can happen too your steel
zinc cromated steel surface is also not so easy to paint, I had made
my experiences
now I know how to paint them , but again I would not galvanise again.
You can use it on bumpers, frame if you want, but I think it´s not necessary if you know how to prevent rust
...old school
Grease it, grease it, grease it !!
Cheers
Peter

[a.greenspan]

Originally Posted by a.greenspan

can only write it in celsius:
this zinc bath has 450 Grad Celsius hot, hot, hot,
you can imagine what can happen too your steel
zinc cromated steel surface is also not so easy to paint, I had made
my experiences
now I know how to paint them , but again I would not galvanise again.
You can use it on bumpers, frame if you want, but I think it´s not necessary if you know how to prevent rust
...old school
Grease it, grease it, grease it !!
Cheers
Peter

Celsius in Fahrenheit :
Umrechnung Fahrenheit - Celsius

[HJ47]

Peter,

Easy to convert C to F: take the temp in C, double it, subtract 10% and add 32. Take 18c for example. Double it = 36 - 3.6 (10%) = 32.4 + 32 = 64.4 (65, as we don't need decimals in F because it is more accurate than C; 1 degree F does not cover as large a range as 1 degree C. This is why countries which use the French/metric system generally express the temperature to the tenths) Simple.

Kevin,

I had no idea it was so hot...guess I need a more realistic fantasy.

Josh

[a.greenspan]

Originally Posted by HJ47

Peter,...
64.4 (65, as we don't need decimals ....
Josh

... in Australia you have Celsius...
Roos need decimals
thats why you have Fahrenheit in the States..
no Roos no decimals necessary
....Peter

[Awl_TEQ]

I bent up a first attempt at the wheel hump this afternoon and it looks promising. I have to change the layout a bit and my machine shop is making a special tool for me to help with the bending.

I had some trouble with the welding of the floor to the cross members. My spot welder has limited reach so it was a real bear to maneuver the floor assembly around in the jaws of the machine. Also, for some un-known reason the weld it was producing was very inconsistent. So I flipped the floor over and tried drilling a hole in the cross member and then "plug" welding it to the floor from underneath. This worked OK but the TIG welding process puts too much heat into the floor and it started to warp. So I nixed that plan. I made some weld coupons (samples) and took them home to my MIG welder to try. That worked much better and so for all future cross members I make I will be punching a string of holes in them to plug weld with my MIG. This is a better plan anyway for those that might buy these parts and have to assemble them in their garage. They are more likely to have a MIG at home.

[Rhinoliner]

Awesome stuff you're designing there. I can't wait to see the finished product.

I'm just kicking back and hoping that you may decide to make a roof panel some day.

[cruiseroutfit]

Originally Posted by Awl_TEQ

I would need some measurements for the three hinges locations. Should be safe to assume the middle one is in the middle but what's the spacing for the outer ones? I would need the distance between the two holes on a single hinge and then the center to center distance from hinge to hinge. Preferably using calipers for the individual hinge hole spacing and then as accurate as possible hinge to hinge (like 1/32" at least.

Other option is to drill the holes yourself and tack weld some nuts inside the channel. But why do that if I can do t for you included in the price?

I'll get some measurements as best I can. It would be great to verify it with another early 45, I'll see what I can do. I'm by no means afraid to drill my own holes and weld some captured nuts, but like you said, if you can do it

[Awl_TEQ]

Feels like its been a long time since an update. I've been busy with the winter to summer changeover - digging out the lawnmower and hoses etc. I had some time this week to make a couple of attempts at a wheel hump. These two shots are of my first attempt - proof of concept to see if I could bend it the way I wanted to. I can slap together a simple angular hump in a half hour but I wanted to make it look as original as I reasonably could given the tools I have on hand. Given enough time I can make it identical to the factory one but that wouldn't be cost effective for those that might want to buy them. I can replicate the two ribs running the length of the original and try to bend it with larger radius tools instead of sharp bends that standard tooling makes. I have a small rib embossing tool and I threw a few in the side to stiffen it up. The original has three ribs running vertically on the sides but thats too difficult to do with my tooling.

My first try - kind of ugly - destined for the scrap bin

[Awl_TEQ]

My second attempt after tweaking the layout. I finished up one corner to show what it will look like finished. This one is also going in the scrap bin after I take it home and see how it fits. I still have to add the holes where it bolts to the cross members as well as close a few gaps in the layout.

[Awl_TEQ]

I also had time to form the bed rails

[Rhinoliner]

Originally Posted by Awl_TEQ

My first try - kind of ugly - destined for the scrap bin
Attachment 330296

Attachment 330297

Wow, your bed design is looking awesome. I bet that some folks would love to have those wheel wells if you are just going to throw them away.

You are quite the craftsman (your design and execution of the bed and tailgate hooks was over the top) and some of the pictures in your rebuild thread have been very handy for me trying to put my project back together. I thank you for that.

Mowing the grass sucks, but I'll take this weather over the alternative anyday.

[Awl_TEQ]

Nah Rhino, they were like three inches too long. Not sure how I did that but oh well. They don't land on the cross members and really wouldn't work well. It was just a prototype to prove to myself the layout was good and then make fine tuning changes from as a baseline. Good thing I only made one or I'd have six that were 3" too long. Any way it was still useful - I made a half dozen changes and learned what not to do when setting up the break tooling.

[Awl_TEQ]

Besides, I already made more - 7 more - one extra in case I screwed up something in the bending process. Turns out I still have a mistake in the layout - when I placed the holes in the flat pattern I forgot to compensate for the shrinkage in width caused by forming the two ribs so the holes don't quite line up. A relatively minor problem given the fact the front and rear floor panels overlap the hump and will cover my fix (elongating the one hole 1/8").



I welded one up and took it home to see how it fit. Other than the one hole it fits pretty good. Definitely a keeper

[Awl_TEQ]

A couple more... you can see my boot print on top - I set it on the floor and stood on it - no flex, pretty solid with 200 Lbs on it. Even without being bolted into the assembly or spot welded to the side panels.

[SouthBostonFJ]

I just cannot believe the level of detail you are going to on this. Looks amazing!

[Awl_TEQ]

Well I'm trying to stay faithful to the original as much as possible so that my parts could be used for restoring a bed. Ideally, my stuff would be a straight bolt on (weld on) replacement part. Only minor grinding and fitting due to production variances on Toyota's assembly line should be required before touch up with spot filler and primer. At least thats the goal .

[HJ47]

Just out of curiosity Kevin, how much do you reckon it would add to the cost of this bed if you were make everything out of stainless steel sheet? Imagine the rust-proof element of that...

[Exiled]

Originally Posted by HJ47

Just out of curiosity Kevin, how much do you reckon it would add to the cost of this bed if you were make everything out of stainless steel sheet? Imagine the rust-proof element of that...

And the weight!

[Awl_TEQ]

Stainless runs about 5 times the cost of cold rolled steel at the moment. That equates to about an extra $2000.00 in my selling price. And would add only about another 20 Lbs to the bed if that. It would need either many, many hours of polishing or a paint job to look good. I assume there is a paint system or technique that will stick to stainless.

BTW, I have quoted a complete bed to a Mud member for $3750.00 Canadian funds FOB my dock. That includes the tailgate and comes partially assembled. The complete floor, humps, cross members and rear valence is one piece. The side panels, top rail & hooks, front and rear corner posts are another. And the front wall with top and end channels would be assembled. The tailgate w/hooks would be blank and not have latches.

That means all you need to do is stand the front wall in place, clamp the sides on and plug weld (rosette weld) through the holes provided (after checking everything is square of course).

I could also fully assemble the bed for a price and then crate it (crate charge would be more than shown below this way)

I have also offered all of the parts loose and un-assembled for $3100.00 CDN. not including the tailgate which is an additional $250.00.

Basically
$3000.00 for the bed parts (each part would be complete in and of itself, ie. welding and rough grinding)
$400.00 to partially assemble
$100.00 to crate
$250.00 for the tailgate (assembled)

I do hope my figures are not out of line as some of the other replacement bed options seem to be. On the one hand I want to keep it affordable for most guys, but on the other hand making this stuff really cuts into my family and 45 rebuild time and needs to be worth my effort or why bother? After costs I'm not making even as much as my regular job on an hourly basis but it is the type of work I like to do.

Once I get everything built and photographed I'll start a new thread in the 45 classified or the main classified section with pics and prices for all the parts.

Kevin

[miker]

These parts look great! Nice work as always.