A little competition coming for the FJ...

[Cruiserdrew]

Originally Posted by saskdiesel

Well, since I've owned Jeeps, Cruisers, Fords, Chevs, Toyota's of all sorts (Including my diesel Surf) and the odd Dodge, I have to say..............I really like that 4 door Jeep with solid axles and a deep low range!
If Toyota had built a solid axle FJ Cruiser (Maybe even a diesel!) I would probably have one.
4 Doors just sweeten the deal for my needs. That truck will sell very well. It may not appeal to an FJ owner but I will not argue the off-road merits that vehicle will have.

A diesel and a solid front axle, and I would already have an FJC. I would prefer it was a 70 series, but I guess that's out of the question for us 'mericans. That Jeep, will likely get the diesel that the Liberty got last year. You must admit, that's an apealing package. I doubt I would step away from Toyota, but the idea of a 4 door wagon, with real accessories for off-road use would be nice to have. Kind of like an 80 series...

[beno]

For the price of one of these (probably) + the lift and new tires, I'd rather get a late 90's 80 series, build the heck out of it and still have enough money for the 2UZFE swap once the 1FZFE goes south.

You'd still be ahead and it would be a Toyota.

I don't normally go with brand association, but with a Toyota, you really have no choice...there is nothing comparable.

Just my .02

[FirstToy]

This topic is moving into similar territory as the "Keep my 80 or get FJC" thread.

I know it keeps coming up, so I want to leave it here in tech. That means the topic is debatable, but personal attacks of any kind are not.

I would like noobies, FJC owners of all skill levels to feel free to ask or comment in this thread.
Thanks all

btw, I agree w/ Andy I think think the Jeep is pretty darn cool.

[bulldog-yota]

The fundamental problem is the Wrangler is the weakest selling Jeep in the Jeep line up. So business 101 says, why would you as a competitor focus on a product with declining sales and weak market share. All the IFS Jeeps are outselling the Wrangler 2 to 1, apart from the COmmander.
http://www.daimlerchrysler.com/Proje...s___May_06.pdf

So short deduction is people who actually buy new cars don't want a solid axle. So if you want a SA from the factory start buying vehicles with SAs new. That will show there is a market and more manufacturers will take that market segment seriously.

There is a reason why Jeep started selling IFS vehicles. It is what the market wants.

[TexasBadlands]

I wish I had a smiley with a hand motion... Solid axles... big deal.

So where is the proof on them taking bypasses with the FJ? Maybe you should go drive one off road before talking it down. Seems a lot of people who are old 'die hard solid axle' guys are down on the new Cruiser, but I didn't hear anyone whining about the 100 series with it's IFS. Sure, they could have made a new 'replica' of the older 40, but they didn't and I see this as a modern vehicle that keeps some of the same lines, but with it's own style that can still run with the best of them.

If you don't like the newest Land Cruiser on the block, go buy yourself a rusted out 40 with horrible on road performance and trailer it everywhere. Me, I have a 40, and I know what it can do. I also know this new Cruiser can do anything my 40 could do, and with slight modification (like a mild lift), even better and with much better ride to and from the trail.

As far as that Jeep goes, yes it does look cool. However with my past experience helping tow out and tow home my friends Jeeps, I have decided to stick with what I KNOW will not let me down on the trail, my Toyotas.

[jfonz]

Originally Posted by Cruiserdrew

A diesel and a solid front axle, and I would already have an FJC. I would prefer it was a 70 series, but I guess that's out of the question for us 'mericans. That Jeep, will likely get the diesel that the Liberty got last year. You must admit, that's an apealing package. I doubt I would step away from Toyota, but the idea of a 4 door wagon, with real accessories for off-road use would be nice to have. Kind of like an 80 series...

Sad (but really not so sad) but true, the Libby diesel is going by by. According to Chrysler Becuase of the new standard the Fed has put out, and the recent addition of a 3.0L diesel to the Grand Cherokee, the cost of making the 2.8L CRD in the libby meet the new diesel standards just isn't worth it. And putting the 3.0 in the libby is out of the question becuase it is to big... But there is plenty of room under the hood of the wrangler for the 3.0L ....

[DBS311]

Badlands, if you don't think the 100 series has gotten flak from us "die hard solid axle" guys, you need to spend some time over in their side of the forum. They hear it from us all the time (especially the 80 vs 100 thread).

I have no proof that the FJC took the bypasses. So..........could somebody please post some pics they have found of it going through Little Sluice, etc. I'm willing to bet you won't find any. You would think that if it did some of the very difficult sections, pics would be all over the place. What would prove its prowess more than hammering up Little Sluice? I'd love to be proven wrong.

Let's not compare the new Wranglers with the old 40's. Everyone knows they (40s) ride harshly. I think any vehicle with front and rear leaf springs will ride poorly. There is a huge difference between the ride of a coil sprung Wrangler and the leaf sprung 40. The first time I rode in my buddies TJ in Moab it felt so smooth because all I had to compare it with at the time was my 62. Then I rode in my brothers Disco II and 80 series. IMO, solid axles with coil springs are entirely liveable and provide a very nice ride.

Again, solid axles are a big deal if you have any desire to wheel above moderate level trails. When All-Pro finishes its SAS and posts pics of the nutty trails they will indeed take it on, there will be solid axle envy going around. C'mon, we all know that the hot girls want to ride in the vehicle that can actually take on the hardcore trail and not the one that drives cush to the trailhead only to have to get out and watch!

[FirstToy]

Let's talk tech-
The advantages FJ Cruisers will enjoy with their rigs? What benefit does their setup give? What did Toyota do right with the heart of this rig?

Also, one advantage Mud has is a huge resource of experienced wheelers and fabricators. So, maybe an approach that explains why SFA is so coveted. Why are the Jeep's stats so enticing?

Maybe this way FJC owners can understand SFA's value and Cruiserheads can see how great the FJC is

[jfonz]

Hears one plus about IFS. Speed. Now for the most part I would say almost all of us are in it for the crawl, but I guarentee your going to see FJC in the Baja...

Another bit of truth that is very un spoke so far on this thread is offroading, when it comes to non buggy type rigs (for the most part), Is still 90% driver and 10% rig....

[Cruiserdrew]

I don't really want to debate the whole IFS vs live axle thing again, but I was present and spotting when the first 100 series (and an IFS 4Runner who has since swapped in a SFA!) went through the Rubicon along with a bunch of 80 series. Your friendly moderator was there too. All the rigs were close to equivalent--locked on both ends, 35 inch tires, 3+ inches of lift. The SFA trucks were MUCH easier to get through. The reason is that when a tire goes up on a rock, it takes the entire axle, differential, and truck body up with it, which in turn magnifies your ground clearence. With IFS, only the tire goes up leaving the rest of the front end closer to what ever it is you are trying to drive over. This is not to mention the weaker components, weaker steering, and vastly increased complexity if a trail repair is needed.

There is no question that IFS is better at high speed, but if you buy an FJC because you think offroading is about high speed, I hope you have a deep wallet and a friendly tow truck driver. While offroading, people pay big money to be able to go slower, not faster! For you FJC owners who are new to this, the 4:1 transfercase of the Jeep is a HUGE advantage. 4Wheel a bit, and then tell me you don't want a deeper low gear. Marlin may be your friend!

There is also no question that the FJC will be a less troublesome vehicle than the Jeep. It's based on the proven and reliable 4Runner, and I would expect no less. It's also likely to be a better street car for trips and the daily commute. Thus, it will make sense over the Jeep for most use. If, however, your goal is 4 and above trails, and you can choose only between the FJC and this proposed Jeep, the Jeep will get the nod.

[saskdiesel]

One of the reasons I got rid of my Hilux and went to a solid axle Superduty was the IFS. Specifically the rubber boots. I was shredding a boot or two every trip hunting mulies and to tell you the truth I just got fed up with the greasy mess I had to deal with. The low scrub would polish the underbelly clean and rip holes in the boots.
Now those prickly bushes and scrub just wipe my front axle clean!
My 40 loved that trip 10 years ago but a couple of big mulies takes up all the space in the back.
Nothing wrong with an IFS truck for a D/D.
I hammered the ball joints out of my Hilux every 30-40k on the rough gravel roads I drive while the 40 still has the kingpin bearings I installed 13 years ago.

[TexasBadlands]

blah blah blah...... I am sick of this thread. I never had a problem wheeling with IFS, and have seen plenty of yotas on sledgehammer and other hard trails with IFS doing fine. In my opinion it boils down to underside armor, and driving ability.

[yep]

Originally Posted by FJCruiserOwnersGroup

... But, in the end, both the FJC and the Wrangler are compromises. They can't be everything to everyone. The purchaser is going to have to decide which is best for them, and what they're willing to trade off in order to get the vehicle that is closest to what they need.

Yep, and it is nice that we live in a place were we are afforded the opportunity to have such a decision and discuss it openly

[mapleton cruiser]

as for me and my house we will drive the fj!

[TexasBadlands]

Originally Posted by yep

Yep, and it is nice that we live in a place were we are afforded the opportunity to have such a decision and discuss it openly

Thank God we live in America. No apologies either if you're offended move to a communist country!

[Guisepi]

I have had several Toyotas and Jeeps in the past. I now own a Wrangler and a FJC. The Wrangler is pretty sweet off road but I would put my money on a Toyota any day. I have had some kind of problem with every one of my Jeeps and not one problem with any of the Toyotas. I still love my Jeep and it is so much fun to drive but I don't see competition. Everywhere I go in the FJC people have to talk to me about it and stare at it. On several occasions after returning to the FJ from inside a store I'll have to wipe forehead prints off the window where someone was looking inside. Seriously people love this thing.

[Fman]

A friend at work just picked up a new FJ cruiser, and I have to admit I was disappointed that it looks nothing like an FJ40. I almost wanted to drive home and pick up my 1970 FJ40 and bring it back to say, "How is this considered an FJ????"

If you look at an old Jeep CJ5 and look at a new YJ/TJ/Rubicon, they still have similiar looks. When I look at the FJ, I see only the grill of the FJ40, lots of plastic and nothing else. I personally was hoping Toyota was going to use the same body style and add more updated features (ie: A/C, fuel injection, 4 wheel disc brakes, quieter interior noise, etc..) but they chose to create a totally different FJ cruiser. And not being able to remove the top??? I still cant figure that one out.

Maybe over time they will grow on me, but for now call me old school... you just cant beat the older FJ40 body style and straight axles for serious offroading. Although, the older 40's are definitely designed for "off-road" use... they would make a challenging daily driver. For a grocery getter, family town hauler, and updated features to make it a more acceptable daily driver, the FJ would be the way to go.

Fman

[jjbodean1970]

Originally Posted by johnny4ever

Does anyone ever wonder what it does to an Auto company to basically be an unwanted orphan??? Jeep has changed hands how many times now?

jeep changed hands once, from amc to chrysler

[jfonz]

Originally Posted by jjbodean1970

jeep changed hands once, from amc to chrysler

thats a good point. I would think if any company could have been concidered an un wonted orphan It would have Been Land Rover, but even still they only changed hands 2 times I think first to BMW then to Ford.. It does kinda trip me out that there owned by Ford now, but even stranger so is Volvo, Jaguar, and Astin Martin...

[FJBen]

2WD model still features a solid front live axle interesting although I fear the Solid front axle will be dead in a few years for Jeep as well...which is sad even tho I'm not a fan of Jeep, I'm glad they are building rigs like this and keeping the competition up. It benefits ALL of us! I tappears that the front REALLY looks like it's leaning towards IFS with the way that shield is covering things.



116" Wheelbase YOWSERS!!!! 4" more than my 80 series!!!! And I feel big/long on the trail...holy crap!


THe other thing is...how much will a Unlimited Wrangler Rubicon 4 door be?? 36K? +???? Thanks A LOT of coin to still have to add 5K more to it to go off-roading.

[jfonz]

they haven't released any pricing yet. I think a full loaded unlimited goes for about 32-34K, but that includes a soft top and a hard top. My guess is they will be prices similerly to the H3. You can get an H3 with the locker and low gears for about 32k-ish. It will be interesting to see how they are priced. I think with the FJC Toyota changed there price structureing as soon as they saw how excited people were about them. I wen't to the dealer ship the other day and to get the one I wonted ordered it would have cost me about 28K, and fully loaded,the price can jump up to 36K.

[firetruck41]

Originally Posted by jjbodean1970

jeep changed hands once, from amc to chrysler

Well, except when it was Willys-Overland, then Willys, then Kaiser... and then there's the Ford jeep...

[FJBen]

Originally Posted by firetruck41

Well, except when it was Willys-Overland, then Willys, then Kaiser... and then there's the Ford jeep...

According to a number of Army sources, the nickname most GIs chose for the little Willys fourby was "Peep" (the 1/2ton Dodges remained "Jeeps"). When the first units left overseas, these terms of endearment stayed with them for some time, but it wasn't long before a tide of change overwhelmed everything. By this time there was a huge influx of GIs going into service, many of whom had been subjected to a veritable media blitz about the new 1/4ton 4x4, which the press insisted on calling a "Jeep".

Over the years, much ado has been made over the name Jeep having been derived from its military nomenclature, GP, for General Purpose. This can be disproved easily by noting that until mid1942, the Army designation for the truck was command reconnaissance, not general purpose (that would come later). No doubt the demise of the 1/2ton Dodge Jeep as standard equipment contributed to the use also. When Willys began using the term "Jeep" in advertising, MinneapolisMoline balked. In June 1942, the House Committee on Military Affairs substantiated MM's claim to the name, citing numerous references in newspapers and magazines dating back to before 1940.

In 1943, Bantam joined MM in taking exception to Willys' use of the term. Bantam, having developed the platform from which the other 1/4ton vehicles were based, felt seriouslycompromised by having been left out of the Jeep building business and relegated to making trailers and aircraft landing gear.

In 1944, the Federal Trade Commission chastised Willys over the use of "Jeep"; the turmoil lasted well into the 1950s. But was to no availthe public had spoken. A Jeep was a Jeep and would forever remain a Jeep. While there is no doubt that Willys-Overland was cheeky, perhaps even unethical, in its use of the name, the 640,000 vehicles produced during the war and the many thousands built later certainly earned the right to carry it.


All this interesting stuff... history lesson hijack over

[TEPUI]

Here's a little competition for the 2007 J**p

[jazzkenpo]

I used to own a Jeep, several of them actually. One got rolled by a Sunbeam Alpine, and the other went the way of the testosteroneless wussy jeep (yes it was a liberty). I just got my FJC and I could'nt be more pleased with it. This new jeep isn't even tested yet and you are worried about competition... lets see what happens when the rubber hits the trail ! By the way the interior looks like that sissy Jeep Liberty my fiancee and I had.

[calamaridog]

I have some issues with the Jeep.

Stronger axles? About time! I'll believe it when I see one.

Modular roof? I suspect it will leak like heck. There is no way they pull this off.

Quality control? I suspect it will have quality issues.

My wife's Liberty has a ton of problems. I had to buy the damn repair manual because I can't afford to fix all the problems at the dealer. Multiple power window issues. Ball joints 2 times in less than 30,000 miles. Brakes are gone. Trim pieces falling off and coming loose. Power steering squeeling all the time. This is a vehicle with only 30,000 miles on it that has been serviced at the dealer, including 3,000 mi. oil changes.

My favorite problem is the "Liberty Pull". What is that? It's the pull to the right which is always there and is considered "normal" by Jeep. All Liberty's pull to the right.

The only really good thing about the Liberty is the 3.7L V6, which is related to the 4.7L V8. That family of engines is actually pretty good. Too bad it is NOT the engine being put in the Wrangler, which gets a V6 from the car line.

So yes, it is SFA and has a lower crawl ratio. That is appealing to me as well. I hope these turn out to be fine vehicles, but I don't have high hopes.

If I was in the market for a new vehicle, I'd be looking seriously at the FJ Cruiser.