[Mace]

This is great.


No one truly knows what the truck is going to be like but LOTS of people seem to be annoyed by it.

Is it mostly a styling issue??

IFS?

Traction control??

Or just the fact that it is not a model that we cannot get here in the states???


This is an official bitch thread..

All opinions welcome.

[bad_religion_au]

IFS

the bastardisation of the FJ40/55 in a market that has few understanding people in it, just a fawking retro throwback no substance fling much like the new beetle.

i think the core goes to the fact that cruisers were never meant to be pretty, or stylish, they were meant to get a job done. and this new one isn't designed for a "job" more to cash in on people with high disposable income and a fear they are "boring".

it may not be as obvious in the US where landcruiser is a fairly prestigeous/ comfort oriented thing, but where they are still being put through their paces on the land, it's fairly plain to see.

the thing looked like sh!t untill someone two toned it, then it looked ok. no doubt IFs will be enough for 99.99 % people who buy it, but i guess we are like the lotus/ferrari/ porsche fanatics, which cannot understand the addition of stereo/ climate control/ ABS/ and the like to their "pure" sports cars. 99.9% of those owners wouldn't feel the performance loss due to these elements.

i don't hate it, i also wouldn't buy one off the showroom floor. i got a 76 fj40 to beat sensless, and if it isn't being offroaded, it had better be f@#$ing fast

[madams557]

I'm going to speak up...

My concern is more along the lines of 'What makes a Land Cruiser a Land Cruiser?'

I'm a Toyota guy, thick or thin.

I admire the Tundra, Tacoma, Forerunner, Camry, Scion brand, Lexus brand, etc, etc, etc. If I was going to by a minivan, it would be a Toyota. If Toyota made athletic supports, I'd be buying athletic supports...

So with that said, I like the FJ Cruiser. But will I consider it a Land Cruiser replacement - not likely. Not yet.

If Toyota continues to sell Land Cruisers side by side with FJ Cruisers, I'll always be in the market for a Land Cruiser.

So what makes a Land Cruiser a Land Cruiser.

Something being made in Japan? By Araco? Body on Frame? Does it have to climb to the first base camp on Mt Fuji? Labelling it a Land Cruiser?

Jury is still out...

[nuclearlemon]

for me it's styling...that thing is butt ugly

[Pskhaat]

The V6 gets me (so does the only option of a 2UZ-FE in a 100 series). I know they're a fine engine, but I love my straight 4/5/6 cyl tractor engines. LOVE the 2F/3F and 22R(E), even like the 1FZ-FE.

I don't want to start any flame war, just wish they'd stick to the 5RZ-FE or 1FZ-FE. In my dream world we'd have a 1HZ or like in there.

[Mace]

Originally Posted by madams557

I'm going to speak up...

My concern is more along the lines of 'What makes a Land Cruiser a Land Cruiser?'

I'm a Toyota guy, thick or thin.

I admire the Tundra, Tacoma, Forerunner, Camry, Scion brand, Lexus brand, etc, etc, etc. If I was going to by a minivan, it would be a Toyota. If Toyota made athletic supports, I'd be buying athletic supports...

So with that said, I like the FJ Cruiser. But will I consider it a Land Cruiser replacement - not likely. Not yet.

If Toyota continues to sell Land Cruisers side by side with FJ Cruisers, I'll always be in the market for a Land Cruiser.

So what makes a Land Cruiser a Land Cruiser.

Something being made in Japan? By Araco? Body on Frame? Does it have to climb to the first base camp on Mt Fuji? Labelling it a Land Cruiser?

Jury is still out...

So is the Lexus a cruiser?

Toyota stopped selling anyhting under the LC name a couple of years ago as I recall.

Every one of the new "Land Cruisers" are badged as Lexus..

[mantis]

Originally Posted by Mace

So is the Lexus a cruiser?

Toyota stopped selling anyhting under the LC name a couple of years ago as I recall.

Every one of the new "Land Cruisers" are badged as Lexus..

Toyota still sells Toyota badged cruisers:

http://www.toyota.com/landcruiser/

[HZJ60 Guy]

IFS sucks!

Gas engines suck!

It's WAY to retro looking!

It's to fat and big looking!

DUMB and useless wheels and tires!

Dumb looking.

How's that?

TB

PS, Im glad Toyota is at least offering something. BUT it ISNT a real world 4x4.

[mantis]

Originally Posted by HZJ60 Guy

BUT it ISNT a real world 4x4.

Is it from the sqrt(-1) world?

[madams557]

Mace - piggybacking on Mantis's post, they are still selling Land Cruisers at the Toyota dearlership. But you do bring up a good point.

What if Toyota decided to bring in the UZJ100 replacement badged as a Lexus only? Does that count as a Land Cruiser? In my opinion, yes.

Under that thought process, the Lexus GX470, and Forerunner are based on the Prado or J120 platform. So are they Land Cruisers? Personally, I think the GX470 is closer, the Forerunner is more of a close cousin, that's just me though.

If Toyota decided to start importing 70-series into the U.S. and decided to rebadge them as Daihatsu (which they own major stock in), I would buy it and consider it a Land Cruiser.

So under this premise, then the FJ Cruiser is a cousin twice removed - why?

Jury still out.....

[HZJ60 Guy]

Originally Posted by mantis

Is it from the sqrt(-1) world?

ok, what exactly does that mean? My point is that nobody is going to buy that thing and take it to the Rubicon, or Moab, or Fordyce Creek, or Johnson valley, or any other wheeling place. People DO buy wranglers and take them there. people would buy a HZJ/BJ-74 and take it there. People would buy a PX-10 and take it there.

TB

[rustycruiser]

My thoughts on the subjesct? I wrote this "Cruiser Musing", last September. It has the unique distinction of being the only one rejected in the three years I wrote for Toyota Trails. Enjoy





Cruiser Musings : God Bless Toyota

By Ross Lake

God Bless Toyota, but God Damn them for what is about to happen. Right now I feel like I am driving in a car, and I am the only one that can see the massive pileup ahead that is going to occur. There is nothing I can do to prevent the accident, but that doesn’t stop me from dreading it. It is going to be ugly, and everyone of us is going to either be involved, or is going to be one of the rubbernecking drivers who inexorably slows down to watch the carnage as they slowly creep by.

So what the hell am I rambling on about this time, you are probably wondering. Good question. I am talking about the imminent release of the new darling of Toyota design and marketing, the FJ Cruiser. Everyone has to have seen the pictures by now. It is the butt ugly RAV-4 sized abortion of a “cute-ute” with a few design cues from an FJ40 Land Cruiser. It might possibly be the most grotesque thing to be penned to paper, yet the marketing geniuses at Toyota see $$ signs every step of the way from production to delivery at the dealer. And they would be stupid not to. With the Land Cruiser name, they have 50 years of history to base their ads and marketing concepts from. The average Joe is going to lap the Cruiser story up like it’s mom’s best apple pie. And I am going to hate him for it.

The thing that bugs me the most is that Toyota is perfectly capable of redoing the FJ40 if they wanted to. They already did it. It was called the PX-10, and it was a limited run of HZJ73s that came out in the mid 1990’s that sported retro looks. Any of you that have made the trip out to Los Angeles recently would have most likely seen one parked in Chatsworth, in Marv Spector’s Land Cruiser Museum.

Now be for you go off, I realize that the FJ Cruiser is not meant to be the FJ40 reincarnate. It is what it is. A cheaply made box that Toyota can sell to Dads of teenage girls and Soccer Moms, whilst whoreing 50 years of Land Cruiser history to sell said cheaply made box. Ain’t the future looking bright?

I can already see the Sunday afternoon next Fall. You, Joe Cruiserhead have just finished installing an SM420 and 3 speed transfer case into your burgeoning rock crawler. You take it out for a spin, to check that everything is kosher in your new mis-mosh mix of Toyota and Chevrolet clutch parts. And up next to you pulls an FJ Cruiser full of four giggling 16 year olds talking about how cute your FJ Cruiser is, and why did you switch to those funny white wheels. I can’t freaking wait!

So maybe I am a grouch who doesn’t like change. But it is slowly creeping in every second. Do you think that it is random chance that a Land Cruiser was chosen for MTV’s “Pimp your Ride”? I might need a tinfoil hat, but I think it is a little too convenient. I think it was a great piece of marketing on Toyota’s behest. BTW, the cruiser in question looked better before it was “pimped” in my opinion.

What about the Land Cruiser that made it into an episode of “Monster House” on the Discovery Channel? Was that coincidence too? Call in the black helicopters, but I again think that there is marketing involved. Every time between now and the debut of the FJ Cruiser that you see a Cruiser in print or on TV, I think that Toyota will have played a role somehow. It is their best interests to reintroduce the Land Cruiser to the mainstream market, and to foster the image of it’s toughness and heritage. And all for the grand plan to sell lots of ugly little boxes.

God damn you Toyota for ruining yet again that which was once a grand thing.

[HZJ60 Guy]

Originally Posted by rustycruiser

My thoughts on the subjesct? I wrote this "Cruiser Musing", last September. It has the unique distinction of being the only one rejected in the three years I wrote for Toyota Trails. Enjoy





Cruiser Musings : God Bless Toyota

By Ross Lake

God Bless Toyota, but God Damn them for what is about to happen. Right now I feel like I am driving in a car, and I am the only one that can see the massive pileup ahead that is going to occur. There is nothing I can do to prevent the accident, but that doesn’t stop me from dreading it. It is going to be ugly, and everyone of us is going to either be involved, or is going to be one of the rubbernecking drivers who inexorably slows down to watch the carnage as they slowly creep by.

So what the hell am I rambling on about this time, you are probably wondering. Good question. I am talking about the imminent release of the new darling of Toyota design and marketing, the FJ Cruiser. Everyone has to have seen the pictures by now. It is the butt ugly RAV-4 sized abortion of a “cute-ute” with a few design cues from an FJ40 Land Cruiser. It might possibly be the most grotesque thing to be penned to paper, yet the marketing geniuses at Toyota see $$ signs every step of the way from production to delivery at the dealer. And they would be stupid not to. With the Land Cruiser name, they have 50 years of history to base their ads and marketing concepts from. The average Joe is going to lap the Cruiser story up like it’s mom’s best apple pie. And I am going to hate him for it.

The thing that bugs me the most is that Toyota is perfectly capable of redoing the FJ40 if they wanted to. They already did it. It was called the PX-10, and it was a limited run of HZJ73s that came out in the mid 1990’s that sported retro looks. Any of you that have made the trip out to Los Angeles recently would have most likely seen one parked in Chatsworth, in Marv Spector’s Land Cruiser Museum.

Now be for you go off, I realize that the FJ Cruiser is not meant to be the FJ40 reincarnate. It is what it is. A cheaply made box that Toyota can sell to Dads of teenage girls and Soccer Moms, whilst whoreing 50 years of Land Cruiser history to sell said cheaply made box. Ain’t the future looking bright?

I can already see the Sunday afternoon next Fall. You, Joe Cruiserhead have just finished installing an SM420 and 3 speed transfer case into your burgeoning rock crawler. You take it out for a spin, to check that everything is kosher in your new mis-mosh mix of Toyota and Chevrolet clutch parts. And up next to you pulls an FJ Cruiser full of four giggling 16 year olds talking about how cute your FJ Cruiser is, and why did you switch to those funny white wheels. I can’t freaking wait!

So maybe I am a grouch who doesn’t like change. But it is slowly creeping in every second. Do you think that it is random chance that a Land Cruiser was chosen for MTV’s “Pimp your Ride”? I might need a tinfoil hat, but I think it is a little too convenient. I think it was a great piece of marketing on Toyota’s behest. BTW, the cruiser in question looked better before it was “pimped” in my opinion.

What about the Land Cruiser that made it into an episode of “Monster House” on the Discovery Channel? Was that coincidence too? Call in the black helicopters, but I again think that there is marketing involved. Every time between now and the debut of the FJ Cruiser that you see a Cruiser in print or on TV, I think that Toyota will have played a role somehow. It is their best interests to reintroduce the Land Cruiser to the mainstream market, and to foster the image of it’s toughness and heritage. And all for the grand plan to sell lots of ugly little boxes.

God damn you Toyota for ruining yet again that which was once a grand thing.

Wow, good one. Can we send that to Toyota North America, and CC it to Japan?


TB

[haystax]

I think it is foolish to think Toyota would do anthing other than what they have done. They already build the Cruiser(s) everyone on here wants, have for years - they don't, won't, and can't import them to the USA and make money. Simple market demand - how many people do each of us know that would condiser a clunky, boxy 70 Series rather than a Cherokee or Exploder - market demographics, that's all.

I'm pretty dissapointed that it didn't try to match some of the Rubicons specs, e-lockers and 4:1 would have made me put up my deposit right now - but I'm certainly gonna take a test drive when they come out and vendors in the aftermarket are going to have a ton of products on the shelf or in the works to make this as capable as any other new USA Toyota model.

[firetruck41]

Originally Posted by HZJ60 Guy

ok, what exactly does that mean? My point is that nobody is going to buy that thing and take it to the Rubicon, or Moab, or Fordyce Creek, or Johnson valley, or any other wheeling place

Riiighhht... just like no one takes a $60k 100 series wheeling, or 4runner, or a Taco, or even a H2 for goodness sake (not that it would do great). Give me a break, your speculations are entirely unbelieveable.

It's WAY to retro looking!

It looks too retro, but it would be great if it was a replica of a 40 or some other 20 year old cruiser, right???
I think this is the process when you are posting:
Rage building, can't make sense of it, anger, seeing red, arrrrgh *begin typing*

[landtank]

Well you think the bastards could at least offer the 105 series as a TOYOTA LANDCRUISER and the 100 series as the Lexus LX470.

How much work would that be?

[HZJ60 Guy]

Originally Posted by firetruck41

Riiighhht... just like no one takes a $60k 100 series wheeling, or 4runner, or a Taco, or even a H2 for goodness sake (not that it would do great). Give me a break, your speculations are entirely unbelieveable.


It looks too retro, but it would be great if it was a replica of a 40 or some other 20 year old cruiser, right???
I think this is the process when you are posting:
Rage building, can't make sense of it, anger, seeing red, arrrrgh *begin typing*

Well that's fine Firetruck. You just keep thinking that. Everybody get's their opinion. I dont care one way or another what you happen to think, the same as you dont care what I happen to think. There, now we've established something havent we.

Ive been wheeling all the places Ive mentioned and more many times. Ive never seen an 80, 90 or 100 series on the trail!

Now thats not to say 80's dont wheel, Ive seen the pictures. But they sure dont wheel in any numbers. And they sure dont wheel like 40's, 55's and 60's wheel. And they sure dont wheel like a PX10 or HZJ/BJ74 would wheel. Because those vehicles were made for the trial, not the grocery store like the new cruiser.

[Mace]

Originally Posted by HZJ60 Guy

ok, what exactly does that mean? My point is that nobody is going to buy that thing and take it to the Rubicon, or Moab, or Fordyce Creek, or Johnson valley, or any other wheeling place. People DO buy wranglers and take them there. people would buy a HZJ/BJ-74 and take it there. People would buy a PX-10 and take it there.

TB

Personaly I disagree.

I pretty much have decided to buy one the second they come out.
From the dealership I plan to drive it to the hammers and play a bit. Will I run sledge with it?? Nope, but there are other trails out there that it shoudl be perfectly capable on. Added to that is the fact that I would not take a stock anything LC on sledge...
I would absolutely take it to Moab, the con and with a winch, fordyce..

People run these trails with Tacomas/4 runners all the time. And if the FJ cruiser is related to them then away we go..



Not saying you are wrong at all. just another opinion

[cruise4070]

I think its kinda disappointing that it doesnt seem to be an evolution of the Cruiser.
From the 25,to the 40/45,55,60,70,80,100 it advanced in design,build quality, etc...
-
This is not really even related to the platform. The last 40 was sold in '84, and now 13 years later Toyota looks to cash in on the past so to speak.
===
I think it can be likened to alot of other situations.
The new Malibu is in NO WAY related to the 64-72 vintage, but Chevy revived a historic name.
-
Same thing with Pontiac. The new GTO (Holden) is certainly a nice newer vehicle, but not related in any way to its namesake.
-
At least the Ford Thunderbird retro TRIED to create a link to its past.
=
I am definitely interested in seeing the finished product, however.

[Mace]

REmember folks, nobody is wrong.. This is all about opinions..

And I specifically asked why people don't like the new FJ cruiser so much..


This is not a fight..

No name calling

[HZJ60 Guy]

Originally Posted by Mace

REmember folks, nobody is wrong.. This is all about opinions..

And I specifically asked why people don't like the new FJ cruiser so much..


This is not a fight..

No name calling

Mace is right. This has been a pretty good discussion so far. Im just way disapointed in Toyota. How they cant find a market in North America for 70 series trucks amazes me. Frankly they're to smart for that. There has to be something else going on.

Sad.

Back to my BJ74 importation issues.


TB

[Mace]

Originally Posted by HZJ60 Guy

Mace is right. This has been a pretty good discussion so far. Im just way disapointed in Toyota. How they cant find a market in North America for 70 series trucks amazes me. Frankly they're to smart for that. There has to be something else going on.

Sad.

Back to my BJ74 importation issues.


TB

A lot of the 70 seris importation issues are based on the fact that they don't comply with current safety standards. The amount of money it would cost to retool for the USA market would be pretty big. Basically the same reason Rover stopped importing the D90 in 97. It just got too costly to bring then up to standards.

Can you imagine designing new body paneld for the 70 series that have all of the proper crumple zones/ air bags etc..

Toyota would have to sell a BUNCH of them to make up the loss in retooling. And the considerable down time (when no 70 series would be produced) while they are retooling..

Is it unfortunate?? yep. I would love a Troopy 70 series. But I can see the issues..

[haystax]

Marketing always wins, that's all. How many LC owners are on this board out of the total # driving one? A very small percentage, almost all of the current LC market is country clubbers and soccer moms. The LC and the Lexus are status symbols in a lot of US neighborhoods, Toyota won't risk devaluing a brand built on quality and $$$ by associating a new entry-level vehicle with the LC name.

I'm looking forward to the release, a lot of these questions and arguments will be answered the first time one hits the pavement, let alone the rocks.

[rustycruiser]

Originally Posted by Mace

A lot of the 70 series importation issues are based on the fact that they don't comply with current safety standards. The amount of money it would cost to retool for the USA market would be pretty big. Basically the same reason Rover stopped importing the D90 in 97. It just got too costly to bring then up to standards.

Can you imagine designing new body paneld for the 70 series that have all of the proper crumple zones/ air bags etc..

Toyota would have to sell a BUNCH of them to make up the loss in retooling. And the considerable down time (when no 70 series would be produced) while they are retooling..

Is it unfortunate?? yep. I would love a Troopy 70 series. But I can see the issues..

I think the shipping is an issue too. For most of the last decade, Toyota was selling every 80 and 100 series that they could bring over here. Now shipping from Japan costs the same for a cheaper bare bones 70 series, and an optioned out luxo cruiser. The 80/100 series has a much larger profit margin per vehicle. Toyota has worked really hard to turn the Land Cruiser name in the US into one associated with luxury and status/eliteness. Selling a bare bones pickup or swb with the same name does not really tie into the branding they have tried to establish. Plus, honestly, who the hell in the US would buy any 70 series. Trust me, we are a minority. Toyota has quite the market research department. If there was any sort of demand or market for the 70 series, it would be here. But sadly, there isn't. Such is life. My 2 cents.

[woody]

Originally Posted by rustycruiser

Plus, honestly, who the hell in the US would buy any 70 series. Trust me, we are a minority. Toyota has quite the market research department. If there was any sort of demand or market for the 70 series, it would be here. But sadly, there isn't. Such is life. My 2 cents.

exactlee...there are 100 addicts with the disposable/available income to purchase a 70 series in the US. There are 900 others who say they will, but practicality and logic will override when it comes time.

I personally like it...since I'm cruiser shopping right now, I'm only bummed it's not available now (and yes, I checked with my Toyota contacts ) I will take a hard look when it comes out in 2006 tho, and perhaps talk my budget into it.

[mabrodis]

I think it's pretty good. If they were calling it a FJ40 Cruiser, that would be kinda wrong, since that would drag in the FJ40 name...but they aren't doing that. If they were calling it a FJ Land Cruiser, that would be wrong too IMO, since they are draggin the name in again. But they aren't doing either of those, they are calling it the FJ Cruiser, a mixture of the utility aspects of the old 40, some luxury and benefits of the newer Land Cruiser and making a vehicle out of that.

I think we should all be happy Toyota hasn't attempted to sell a 70-series Cruiser here, if they did, they would lose major amount of money and probably have to radically change their company or go bankrupt, in which case none of us could buy any new Toyotas, I'd rather have what we have now than that.

I think ya'll need to stop bitching, Toyota could have just made another Highlander, or Rav4...

[Mace]

Originally Posted by mabrodis

I think ya'll need to stop bitching, Toyota could have just made another Highlander, or Rav4...

Ummmmm, this IS a bitch thread



If you can't say something negative then just don't say anything at all

[reffug]

Originally Posted by Mace

Ummmmm, this IS a bitch thread



If you can't say something negative then just don't say anything at all

OK

BITCH

[Pskhaat]

Okay, I don't work for Toyota or any auto manufacturer. But I have consulted for a couple in the past and work in market pricing as a management consultant now.

Let me tell you that I highly doubt there have been extensive studies on market needs, especially the ones to which we are referring. When you get as big as the Big3 or Toyota you simply dictate a market. If you put /anything/ out there for the most part it sells; as time progresses you look at what your loss leaders are and remove them. Iterate this process, introduce new things, and the theory is you `organically' grow your product base from your original (thought-out) product set.

This can backfire. It happened to the American car companies in the 70s/80s. When you start telling your customers what they want a smaller, better engineered company who has actually done marketing studies can nip you (the way the Japanese took on the American autos).

I fear Toyota is in the same big boat now. This is the natural evolution of corporate America though, their job is to bring return to their investors...period.

I bet not one person here has been or has known or has heard of anyone that has been surveyed by Toyota of what they want in an auto.

[HZJ60 Guy]

Sorry guys, but Im callin BS! If the damn TJ will pass whatever safety inspection tests than you can bet your big fat white asses that the 73-74-75 series would too!

Rover stopped selling the D90 because they refused to install AIR BAGS! Period. I have a friends who are D90 nutz and theyve been over to Rover in England. It was a ideological point. The US wasnt going to make them change there vehicle.

They could simply produce the damn thing here in the US and not worry about all of that. If they can build that worthless Rav 4 (and IT can pass the tests) they could build a 73-74-75 that would too.


TB %$#@^