I love the haters... :)

[Pskhaat]

You're right. Read the CFRs, there is /very little/ in terms of safety regulation, almost nothing on crumple zones, etc. Especially if you have a low-volume line. Anything producing under 10k vehicles are subject to many exemptions.

Toyota with their resources could easily retrofit airbags and whatnot. hzj60, read my upper thread, it's just that they don't CARE to, not that they WON'T nor CAN'T, there would still be profit, albeit not as much as a 100 series, but gotta be more than the Prius...

[HZJ60 Guy]

Originally Posted by 3fj40

You're right. Read the CFRs, there is /very little/ in terms of safety regulation, almost nothing on crumple zones, etc. Especially if you have a low-volume line. Anything producing under 10k vehicles are subject to many exemptions.

Toyota with their resources could easily retrofit airbags and whatnot. hzj60, read my upper thread, it's just that they don't CARE to, not that they WON'T nor CAN'T, there would still be profit, albeit not as much as a 100 series, but gotta be more than the Prius...

VERY good points all. I mean come on guys. We all know how well the 70 series are made. If a TJ can pass a crash test you dont think a FJ/HZJ/BJ-74 can pass better???

Ya sure buddy.

I agree. The bastards are still pissed off at us for dropping two nukes on them! That's why we only get the shit!


TB

[Mace]

So you think it would be a good idea to retool their plant (adding airbags as an example) and potentialy add a bunch of emissions stuff to the motors just to sell under 10K trucks a year???

It is all about profit..

[Mace]

[quote=HZJ60 Guy]VERY good points all. I mean come on guys. We all know how well the 70 series are made. If a TJ can pass a crash test you dont think a FJ/HZJ/BJ-74 can pass better???
QUOTE]


Okay,
Fair question..

How many people can attest to how well a 70 series is made???

[Pskhaat]

I'm not saying its a bad idea!

1) There would be profit. Not BIG profit, but margin nonetheless.
2) They would create what's called `affinities' where I would be more likely to come back and buy a 100 sereis high-margin-mobile for the wifey if I could have /exactly/ what I wanted that was less profitable. Retailers do this every day, promote and sell loss leaders because it `drags' sales of other higher profitable products. Why is peanut butter on sale but jelly's so expensive?
3) You don't have to retool a plant to put airbags in, nor to add emissions equipment. Europe has some very strict emissions that would pass US laws with flying colors, it's already been done on most of those engines.

[Heffenoche]

Face it, Toyota must sell a vehicle that can be driven on a daily basis. No one can sell a vehicle that is purely a trail princess and make a profit. Why do most of the people wheeling built 40s trailer their rigs to the trail rather than drive them there? How many people that do own and DD a 40 don’t have another vehicle at their disposal? An uncomfortable riding vehicle seriously limits your market of potential buyers.

We are a limited market that want a serious off- road machine. Take that small number and subtract the majority of “wanters” who would not actually throw down the cash once such a vehicle was produced and you’d have a very small number. If Mr. T thought it could make a profit with such a vehicle in the US market they would do it.

My point is that to sell a new vehicle in the US market is that it must handle the DD task fairly well because the buyer may not have a second vehicle to pick up the task of a long hauler.

[Pskhaat]

70 series out-of-the-box is certainly road and highway worthy. Australia is quite lucky to have that and they in general don't build these things to be solely-trail rigs.

Remember, I could probably make a profit performing pool maintenance though too, but I have chosen to spend my time doing consulting work. The difference here is that Toyota could build prospective customer bases out of people like us for /other/ purchases. You could make the argument about how much of a customer base, and the statistics for future purchases around it. Hell, I might even find someone needing enterprise software while doing pool maintenance.

Point is, they simply don't want to!

[HZJ60 Guy]

I can keep going back to the TJ as a stance to all these points.

The 70 series fits in the same market. Even if it was more expensive. The Rubicon and Unlimited are more expensive and they are selling the hell out of them.



TB

[Chef]

Originally Posted by Mace

I love the haters

Quote Chef: "I hate hate haters."

Let me preface this by saying this by saying:
"I now speak as Chef, regular grade idiot, not Alan, TLCA Pres grade idiot."

Nomex On:

Bashing the new FJ in comparison to the old one makes as much sense as bashing the new Tacoma for not being a 40 year old Hilux.


Toyota could have built a Wrangler if they wanted to. They didn't. Different target demographic, different end result.

[Mace]

This thread is not supposed to make sense.

It is here so that the haters can vent somewhere without cloging the other threads

[firetruck41]

BTW- I hate that Woody or Gumby is no longer counting posts in the FJ Cruiser forum for our post count. We all might as well stop posting in this forum now since the "padding" has stopped

[gulp3000]

I can deal with the IFS, it will go anywhere I normally go. What I don't like is the tiny windows and the huge blind spot.

One of the few vehicles that doesn't have a major direct competitior is the Wrangler. The basic styling of the 40 and the CJ has endured beyond just about all other car styles. It has a proven appeal that won't go away anytime soon. I won't rule out buying an FJC until I see one and take one for a spin, but a Taco seems like a more appealing and useful choice.

If I were king, we would have a modernized 40 style Toyota. Simple, with form following function.
Hard or soft top option, e lockers optional. Between the appealing style and the reputation Toyota has earned here, it would be a hit. Every other car on the road here in CO is Wrangler eventhough lots of folks agree that it's not a near Toyota quality.

[haystax]

Originally Posted by 3FJ40

Point is, they simply don't want to!

That hits the nail on the head right there, and what can we all do about it, send hatemail to ToyMoCo or deal with it. That seems to be the definite division of sides here too...which makes things a lot easier to argue about when there are only two sides

Do vehicle manufacturers actually have a "loss leader" product? I can't really make the same retail principles in our business apply to a vehicle manufacturer and dealership. When its winter, we put water trough heaters on sale and put horse blankets and dog sweaters next to them right out front = I can't see how a 70 series is a loss leader for a 100 series.

We have never bought a Ranger because it was cheap and stayed around long enough to buy a Powerstroke because it was placed conveniently next to the Ranger on aisle 5.

I just don't see anything more than they can but they won't and we get this thing because we a trendy US consumers.

[Gumby]

It's not just crash safety. There's a lot of other crap that car manufacturers have to do to sell a car here. OBDII is a big one. I don't know if the two door 4x4 tariff is expired, but it would add thousands to the price if it hasn't. Add that to the fact that Toyota already has as many or more models of SUVs than anybody else that sell well in the US, many of them built here, and they have 0 reason to sell a handful of 70 series to the few of us that would buy one. the average Joe is not going to spend $40 grand on a jeep like vehicle when they can buy a Jeep for under $20,000.

[fj40Matt]

I'm just wondering exactly which 70-series do people want? There's at least a half-dozen incarnations, right? What if they imported an LJ-73? Sure its got a solid axle, but aside from that.... it's just a mini-truck right? And isn't that what the FJ-Cruiser is probably going to be, more or less?

The FJ-Cruiser represents a catchy vehicle (for the general market, not this group), small niche, that draws attention to the brand. Seems to be sort of like the Plymought Prowler. Not the real thing, on the right track, draws attention to Chrysler. Seems a heck of a lot better idea than importing a bunch of over-priced 70 series that most folks don't need, and even less can afford.

Imagine average Joe at the dealer. He looks at the V8 Tundra quadcab, versus the inline-6, manual tranny, bare bones 70-series. And the Tundra costs less...

As far as the FJ-Cruiser, I think its kind of ugly, but some improvement could be made. I'm interested to see the production version...

Matt

[yooper]

Originally Posted by fj40Matt

I'm just wondering exactly which 70-series do people want?

I want this one.

[HZJ60 Guy]

I WANT THIS ONE!

HD/HZ/BJ-74 PPLLEEAASSEE!

[TomH]

Originally Posted by yooper

I want this one.

I would trade in my Tacoma in a minute if I could have one of those.

BTW - when I was in Japan last September, the Toyota dealer told me that the 70 series is no longer being sold in Japan. So the US market is not the only market missing out on the 70 series.

[Dirk Diggler]

Originally Posted by yooper

I want this one.

Thanks for posting this pic. I now have a new wallpaper

[bad_religion_au]

[quote=Mace]

Originally Posted by HZJ60 Guy

VERY good points all. I mean come on guys. We all know how well the 70 series are made. If a TJ can pass a crash test you dont think a FJ/HZJ/BJ-74 can pass better???
QUOTE]


Okay,
Fair question..

How many people can attest to how well a 70 series is made???

i can. tough as. a friend of mine flipped his end on end, went over twice (second revolution in the air) before landing on it's side. we pulled it back up onto it's wheels, tracked down a short in the dizzy (350 chev) and drove it. it was fine. still tracks straight and true, etc etc etc

mmm might pop over to the local dealer

http://lc78.toyota.com.au/LC78/HomePage/0,,,00.html

[bad_religion_au]

Originally Posted by Heffenoche

Face it, Toyota must sell a vehicle that can be driven on a daily basis. No one can sell a vehicle that is purely a trail princess and make a profit. Why do most of the people wheeling built 40s trailer their rigs to the trail rather than drive them there? How many people that do own and DD a 40 don’t have another vehicle at their disposal? An uncomfortable riding vehicle seriously limits your market of potential buyers.

My point is that to sell a new vehicle in the US market is that it must handle the DD task fairly well because the buyer may not have a second vehicle to pick up the task of a long hauler.

you can't DD a 75? or 70? i daily drive my 76 fj40 without power steering... most my 4x4 friends daily drive their 75 series, and the new one is coil sprung front, comes with power windows, remote central locking, air con, and CD player... why can't you DD this?

[66fj40x2]

Originally Posted by bad_religion_au

mmm might pop over to the local dealer

http://lc78.toyota.com.au/LC78/HomePage/0,,,00.html

Don't rub it in . I would dearly love to smuggle a 78 diesel pickup into the US...but thats a different thread.

I could bitch about the FJ and completely understand the dislikes of the car. That said, the wife and I have already decided we will be in the market for one when they are finally released.

This car was simply designed for the US market...a US market that made the Lexus branded SUV's as popular as the already loaded out 80 and 100 series, and has made retro styled cars and trucks very profitable for the mfgr's. I would expect nothing less from Toyota because it is all about the money, bottom line. If there was enough of a market for the 78's in the US, Toyota would bring them here...money. There's not enough of a market for them here because they are too utilitarian, not enough bling for the Americans. The FJ brings the bling.

Hell, I wish Toyota had taken all the old tooling for the 40's, put a 3FE, H55, 4:1 case, 4.11's, lockers and updated the interior just to show chEEP how to build a "Trail Rated" 4x4. I'll settle for the FJ though. A little lift, more tire and another locker and I'll be good. Just my 2 er maybe 3 cents worth.

[Chef]

I'd buy a 78 series in a heartbeat. I'd DD it, and I'd tow my 40 with it. Slowly, I'm sure. But I'd be willing to sell my Cummins for that

[haystax]

Originally Posted by Chef

I'd buy a 78 series in a heartbeat. I'd DD it, and I'd tow my 40 with it. Slowly, I'm sure. But I'd be willing to sell my Cummins for that

I wouldn't buy one...a truck like that would make sense for my place but it's just too small. The cab is way too small for all my junk and it wouldn't pull a gooseneck trailer without popping a wheelie

Dodge and Ford rule the diesel pickup world, no denying that - another example of Toyota producing a awesome niche vehicle and not wanting to compete on US soil.

[denis]

I love how this thread turned into one more in the million "I want 70 series" threads