Traction Control *and* a Locking Rear Diff?

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by Mace

Ahh but apparently the traction control turns off when you lock the center diff

Wrong. And that's (not you, it) insane. That's when you need it the most, in CDL demanig application. It's always there for you in any mode. Obviously if you lock the rear then the doesn't have TRAC but the front does.

[Landpimp]

LOL.........no worries at all, I was giving chit and expect it back

John

Originally Posted by HZJ60 Guy

Im just teasing the Pimpster. Were both fellow (jack asses) Warshentonians.
Im going to get a Lojack system from him soon so I cant beat him up too much!



TB

[SteveLCetc]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

Want to see? Come wheel with me. Locked 80. Locked 100/Traction controlled 100. You see, you'll believe.

I don't think I follow you. Are you saying the Traction Control is better than the lockers? Do you just lock the ARB's when you want to get stuck, or did you have an extra couple of thousand laying around?

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by mabrodis

Wait a second what are we talking about here? The CDL turns off the traction control? On what vehicle? The FJ Cruiser isn't even made yet.

Traction Control to me makes sense if a tire is cleanly off the ground, so it can just spin and spin. In that case putting on that brake, makes some power go to the other tire still on the ground, so putting a brake on a tire that's not touching the ground is fine (that tire is doing nothing for momentum anyway, it's in the air). Now in a more normal scenerio, where a tire is just barely spinning faster than the other putting on the brake on that tire seems it could be counter-productive. If you could only slow that tire down to match the other tires then maybe it'd work, but not sure if they drag the brakes or pulse them.

However, I think the problem with all traction control systems is what if there is very little traction, so you NEED to spin all 4 tires, some faster, some slower, etc, but spin them all. I've heard the 100-series does pretty good with this and lets them spin. I know the system on a '01 Hummer did NOT do that, and I watched them take forever to get through stuff that any normal vehicle would walk through, because their traction control would not let a tire spin, but to get over a rock, all 4 tires needed to spin, there wasn't that much traction. So that is a problem with all systems, just some have different ways to lock out the system in that case and let the tires just wildly spin..

Backwards Mark (on the H2)

H2 wheelspin is excessive (like almost all systems) and not too effective. I pulled one out with the 100. It's very tightly controlled on the 100. The only error to be made on the 100 is using too much gas. If you use too much gas then the system lets the wheels spin (ala spitting mud off so you don't get stuck). My buddy has some videos of the 100 on his site.

Go here and let me walk you through them:

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehic...s/john100.html

"FR42 Trail, good TRAC action" shows driver error. I began to climb then hit those holes and gave it more gas. I was embarassed. I should have not increased the gas. I stopped then lightly touched the pedal and away I went with TRAC.

"Nice Wheel Lift action" show just how effective TRAC is in the 100. There's NO momentum loss. Those holes are HUGE and those are 35's. Other unlocked vehicles spin and spin in those holes while trying to get traction. The 100 reacts extremely fast.

"Wheel lift, Chivo AZ" is an example of locked rear and open front. Though I've done this obstacle unlocked, I was locked here. Using TRAC up front eliminates the worry about breakage (or sliding) while turning up those rocks. A combo of locker and TRAC is invaluable IMO.

Please don't get on me about "Three Feathers Climb, AZ". I had 22-lbs in. At 18lbs this climb is done without a slip.

So believe in ActiveTrac. It works, sometimes BETTER than lockers. When a rear locker has pulled me to an edge, I unlock, go light on the gas and let TRAC, TRAC away.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by HZJ60 Guy

IFS should be against the law!

Lockers PREVENT either wheel from spinning slower or faster than the other. Hence the term locked.

To damn retro looking. To fat. Probably to heavy.

Oh well, better than NO FJ I suppose.



TB

Dude...it's 2005. I'm glad you like your truck. I luv my 80 too, but whatever ya do, don't challenge an IFS 2004 Double Cab Tacoma TRD (equally modified) to an off-road challenge. ALL our Cruisers would LOSE!

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by Landpimp

I was sworn to secretcy, but its time to let the cat out of the bag. the new FJ is not what you think it is, its really a HJZ74 hidden under a plastic fake body just so they can get them into the US, when you buy one, take it home and remove the FJ body, you will find a brand new 2007 74 series underneath it.

Sorry I ruined the suprise

Way to go PIMP!

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by SteveLCetc

I don't think I follow you. Are you saying the Traction Control is better than the lockers? Do you just lock the ARB's when you want to get stuck, or did you have an extra couple of thousand laying around?

Depends on the situation as to which is best. I've went places with TRAC where the lockers wouldn't even move me, they just slid me.

I've climbed things with a locker(s) where TRAC didn't cut it. VERY steep and lose grades with holes. Emphsize, VERY steep.

Idealy the combo of lockedrear and front TRAC is best because you can turn and without binding. Heck, you really need to turn, grab a 2000+ 100 with TRAC, lock the ARB rear, UNLOCK the center (turns FAR easier) and let the front wheels TRAC through the obstacle. You won't BELIEVE how you can turn and how you can climb and WITHOUT the fear of breakage!

I've also be spared by TRAC over lockers on scary climbs. The locker would pull me to the edge. So I'd unlock and use TRAC patiently and safely.

[SteveLCetc]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

Depends on the situation as to which is best. I've went places with TRAC where the lockers wouldn't even move me, they just slid me.

I've climbed things with a locker(s) where TRAC didn't cut it. VERY steep and lose grades with holes. Emphsize, VERY steep.

Idealy the combo of lockedrear and front TRAC is best because you can turn and without binding. Heck, you really need to turn, grab a 2000+ 100 with TRAC, lock the ARB rear, UNLOCK the center (turns FAR easier) and let the front wheels TRAC through the obstacle. You won't BELIEVE how you can turn and how you can climb and WITHOUT the fear of breakage!

I've also be spared by TRAC over lockers on scary climbs. The locker would pull me to the edge. So I'd unlock and use TRAC patiently and safely.

Well, you convinced me both is best. However, if you could only have one or the other???

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by SteveLCetc

Well, you convinced me both is best. However, if you could only have one or the other???

Easy choice:

100 = TRAC
(It carries you through almost every off road situation and some lockers won't. I'd NEVER give up TRAC in the 100, though I could give up the lockers if I had too.)

80 = Lockers
(They'll allow you to do those 5% of obstacles TRAC might not do. Considering the 80 is more of a trail rig (much less expensive, etc. etc.) the lockers are the choice.

[reffug]

Can't we just wait until somebody buys one and wheel's it and then formulate opinions. I think Shottz and Pimp both have already proven that a rear locker and IFS are an excellent wheeling comibination.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by reffug

Can't we just wait until somebody buys one and wheel's it and then formulate opinions. I think Shottz and Pimp both have already proven that a rear locker and IFS are an excellent wheeling comibination.

The thread turned into another subject, huh REFFUG?

Hey, what's you-alls favorite beer?

[reffug]

Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout

Samuel Smith Imperial Stout

[ShottsUZJ100]

Thank god YOU replied FUG! If somebody else had I'd a been in trouble with ya for sure!

[shocker]

Think the whole thing here is that the actual off-road functionality of TRAC is new to anyone who doesn't frequent the 100 series board, so you've got a whole new class of students to convert!

[reffug]

If anyone is not convinced or is a doubter of the combination all they need to do is an advanced search with Shottz as the user and there are pictures, more than enough that prove the point. Also with a shorter wheelbase this vehicle with that combination should prove more than competent.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by reffug

If anyone is not convinced or is a doubter of the combination all they need to do is an advanced search with Shottz as the user and there are pictures, more than enough that prove the point. Also with a shorter wheelbase this vehicle with that combination should prove more than competent.

I'm praying one of 2 things happens:

1. The FJ sucks
2. I don't like it

I can't afford it right now. Gotta pay off the Taco.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by Aseif007

Personally I enjoy the lockers. I haven't driven with the traction control so I cannot directly comment. I thought the point of whelling/obsticles was that the driver actually controlled the car?? Isn't that most of the fun??

Ahhh, ya. So having TRAC means one doesn't have to pick the right line, use the right amount of gas, learn how to drive off road? Of course they do.

So now it is a question of the car's ability, not the driver ability/input. That is all good for the mall cruisers, but I actually would like to feel like I accomplished something, not my computer accomplished something. I'm sure the traction control works great and will get you through everything.

TRAC is NO different than ANY other traction device in that it aids traction. If that's your outlook then I'm sure you'll never want to use lockers either? What fun would that be? Using a device or electronics to help drive you through.

I'm sure I will one day accept the traction control, but I think I will consider myself old at that point...

Maybe. I'm really old myself and it shows because I drive a TRAC-controled 100 series mall cruiser that's no fun to drive.

I still love Toyota's though, mostly before 1998. But the mall cruisers are nice too. There I said it, I like the 100s too.

Yes, you must be younger. You only call the 98 and up mall cruisers? You don't remember when everybody called the 80's mall cruisers? In fact, everything from the 55-up is a mall cruiser. You want a non-mall cruiser? Then go by a Jeep Wrangler.

[mabrodis]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

Backwards Mark (on the H2)

Hmm...I was talking about a H1 though, not a H2. The H1's I saw (5+ in a group) several years ago, they had major issues, they could not spin their tires. Their leader who was conducting the trail run (all but 1 or 2 of these drivers had NEVER even taken any vehicle offroad before, and had just bought a H1) was coaching them, what to do, when to turn, normal stuff. He didn't want to use the winch, so he made them all get through this section with no winch (a good move I'd say to teach them something, but when there were 20+ vehicle waiting, not such a good move). It was crazy, there was black smoke pouring out the exhaust, they were floored, and each tire would move a bit, then stop from the traction control kicking in (atleast that's what the leader, who seemed to know his stuff, said was happening).

It was rather funny and a bit humbling for those drivers, after they spent 45 minutes+ to get everyone through a Toy truck with 33's, rear locker and maybe a 3" lift just walked through it, made it look cake, which it was, but the Hummer dudes had totally the wrong vehicle to have on that trail, but who knows, maybe they learned something that day that you aren't always king of the hill in all situations...and maybe they got rid of their H1 and now own Cruisers..

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by mabrodis

Hmm...I was talking about a H1 though, not a H2. The H1's I saw (5+ in a group) several years ago, they had major issues, they could not spin their tires. Their leader who was conducting the trail run (all but 1 or 2 of these drivers had NEVER even taken any vehicle offroad before, and had just bought a H1) was coaching them, what to do, when to turn, normal stuff. He didn't want to use the winch, so he made them all get through this section with no winch (a good move I'd say to teach them something, but when there were 20+ vehicle waiting, not such a good move). It was crazy, there was black smoke pouring out the exhaust, they were floored, and each tire would move a bit, then stop from the traction control kicking in (atleast that's what the leader, who seemed to know his stuff, said was happening).

It was rather funny and a bit humbling for those drivers, after they spent 45 minutes+ to get everyone through a Toy truck with 33's, rear locker and maybe a 3" lift just walked through it, made it look cake, which it was, but the Hummer dudes had totally the wrong vehicle to have on that trail, but who knows, maybe they learned something that day that you aren't always king of the hill in all situations...and maybe they got rid of their H1 and now own Cruisers..

Oh, yes sir. Got that wrong. Was thinking of H2's. Sorry.

Yes, the H1's with traction control experienced mixed results depending on road surface. The way they can active/deactivate it is by pumping the brake pedal (so these guys tell me). Hummer has again been adding lockers as options as the non-locked models really struggled as you've seen.

[Mace]

H1's have never had a computerized traction control..

They either have limited slips or lockers..

There was a bunch of other things happening in that group..


"pumping" the brake does not turn the traction control on and off. It places a "load" on the wheel and transfers power to the wheel with more traction.

It is a very common practice with limited slips..

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by Mace

H1's have never had a computerized traction control..

They either have limited slips or lockers..

There was a bunch of other things happening in that group..


"pumping" the brake does not turn the traction control on and off. It places a "load" on the wheel and transfers power to the wheel with more traction.

It is a very common practice with limited slips..

That's what I thought too. I know the braking trick. I remember the manager of Sedona Hummer Tours telling me their rigs didn't have lockers though they were traction controlled and they move the power around by pumping the pedal.

[firetruck41]

This discussion got me thinking:
Can you imagine what it would've been like if there had been LC message boards in '88 when they introduced fuel injection? It'll never work off road, the electronics will never hold up to the vibration, you'll need a new ECU every year, it'll leave you stranded all the time, yada, yada, yada

[Mace]

Originally Posted by firetruck41

This discussion got me thinking:
Can you imagine what it would've been like if there had been LC message boards in '88 when they introduced fuel injection? It'll never work off road, the electronics will never hold up to the vibration, you'll need a new ECU every year, it'll leave you stranded all the time, yada, yada, yada

Hey, stop making sense