[NYCTRD]

Just heard from the Toyota factory rep that Toyota has engineered new fender aprons with support brackets welded to the inside (of the aprons).

They will be going into production vehicles ASAP. Right now, they offerered to fix my truck by replacing the fender aprons and welding the newly designed brackets in. Or, they said I can wait until the new fender aprons go into production with the brackets affixed to them. I said I'd wait.

NOTE TO ALL OWNERS: TOYOTA MIGHT NOT TAKE CARE OF THIS OUTSIDE THE ORIGINAL 36-k/3 YEAR WARRANTY. EVEN IF YOU HAVE AN EXTENDED WARRANTY (read the fine print.sheet metal is NOT included in extended warranty). I was told I would have to get this repair done BEFORE the factory warranty expired.

I would have preferred a buy back...but, this is the next best thing (I hope).

[Corey]

Be careful when they weld, member Highbeams over on the blue forum had his entire FJ destroyed by fire.

The dealership got sparks underneath the dash when welding, and a smoldering turned into a raging fire.

They are suppose to take your whole dash off when fixing this.

He gave up and has left Toyotas, and now has a 4 door Rubicon.

[AmityFJ]

Is this an "official" recall item now? Will all affected fj's be retrofitted if requested by owners?
I hear what you are saying about the warranty thing.

[FlyNdrive]

Don't worry about the mileage if the problem is currently happening on your warranty vehicle.

What is important is to get the problem documented with mileage still under warranty, get a copy of the receipt showing you brought it in and keep it in a safe place. Once a fix is found go back to the dealer with the bulletin number. As long as the fix is in the system it can be fixed at any mileage as long as it was documented while under warranty. If paint is involved it has to be approved by the regional representative.

There will be a fix, but proper documentation will help you after the warranty period.

If you are over warranty mileage you have to wait for a recall notice to get the problem fixed. This probably won't happen unless the "fix" is under $400 per vehicle.

All this information is not from the blue room, but from my service manager.

-Ben

[AmityFJ]

Presently I don't have the problem on my rig, but I'm sure it will happen if I continue to wheel offroad like I am. I can't document what I don't have "yet" but I would hate to see it develop into a problem after my warranty expires, then the dealer says you are SOL

[NYCTRD]

Originally Posted by Corey

Be careful when they weld, member Highbeams over on the blue forum had his entire FJ destroyed by fire.

The dealership got sparks underneath the dash when welding, and a smoldering turned into a raging fire.

They are suppose to take your whole dash off when fixing this.

He gave up and has left Toyotas, and now has a 4 door Rubicon.

I should be so lucky if they COMPLETELY destroy it in an approved Toyota body shop! Then I could wait until this is a factory update and get a new 2009...

My luck it'll catch on fire but not be totalled!!

The rep said it's going to be a while before a TSB/recall occurs. They have to ramp up manufacturing of the new aprons with the affixed brackets. He said to call the dealer in June to check on the progress since I only have about 19-k miles and more than a year to go on factory warranty.

He was fairly clear that even though I had it documented now, it would NOT be covered after the initial warranty EVEN THOUGH I have the platinum extended service agreement (note-it's NOT really an extended "warranty".

I'm inclined to ask if they would first try just welding the brackets in now and LEAVING the existing aprons because I just have samll bulges at this point and it would be much less of a tear down. I plan on keeping this rig for a long time and the less sheet metal work the better.

As I suspected all along, this IS a major structural issue made obvious by the fact that they're incorporating this fix into all future production models (according to what the rep stated).

[niggs0026]

You guys seem to be well in the know about this, maybe you can help me out

I just bought an '08, not sure of the actual production date. I'm not around to check right now

Will it not have the new fenders if they are only just going into production? I was under the impression that the '08s had redesigned fenders, are these the same ones? Or are the ones with the brackets another redesign? I read on the other forum people with '07s were having their fenders replaced with ones from the '08s. Any help is appreciated. I'll be around my truck tomorrow to actually check, though I doubt I'll know what to look for

[NYCTRD]

The 2008 model has slightly modified fender aprons that simply moved one of the UPPER crumple zone dimples further away from a LOWER dimple. This obviously had little or no effect on the bulges/cracks.

All current models, even the new ones will be suceptable to over flexing, bulging and eventual cracking over time. It doesn't appear to be related to hard off-roading or abuse, but I'm sure that could excerbate the problem once a bulge or crack develops.

The NEWLY redesigned fender aprons under development will have this reinforcement bracket integrated into the design. They are not ready yet...possibly by late summer and showing up on new vehicles sometime in the fall.

These were gusstimates by the factory rep who was very upfront and honest, but initially didn't know much about the overall issue.

My overall concern was that since this was initially affecting a relatively tiny # of consumers, it would be swept under the rug, but TOYOTA seems to be on the case and offerring fair (if not sometimes spotty) resolutions.

Now go have fun, beat your rigs or baby 'em (whatever youyre into) and rest assured Toyota wants to remain a top seller in the good ol' US of A....

[Toledo FJ]

good to know!

[FJCRUZR]

Thanks for the info!
I will be talking to my service advisor...

[niggs0026]

Originally Posted by NYCTRD

The 2008 model has slightly modified fender aprons that simply moved one of the UPPER crumple zone dimples further away from a LOWER dimple. This obviously had little or no effect on the bulges/cracks.

All current models, even the new ones will be suceptable to over flexing, bulging and eventual cracking over time. It doesn't appear to be related to hard off-roading or abuse, but I'm sure that could excerbate the problem once a bulge or crack develops.

The NEWLY redesigned fender aprons under development will have this reinforcement bracket integrated into the design. They are not ready yet...possibly by late summer and showing up on new vehicles sometime in the fall.

These were gusstimates by the factory rep who was very upfront and honest, but initially didn't know much about the overall issue.

My overall concern was that since this was initially affecting a relatively tiny # of consumers, it would be swept under the rug, but TOYOTA seems to be on the case and offerring fair (if not sometimes spotty) resolutions.

Now go have fun, beat your rigs or baby 'em (whatever youyre into) and rest assured Toyota wants to remain a top seller in the good ol' US of A....

Thank you very much NYCTRD. I appreciate the clarification, though the news is somewhat depressing. Shame on me for not researching the vehicle as thoroughly as I should have prior to purchase. I never would have bought it if I was aware of this issue. Whether it is cosmetic or not, it is damaging to the reputation of the vehicle either way and as superficial as that may be, it is quite important especially considering the nature of the vehicle. Here's hoping I don't run into any problems

[FlyNdrive]

GREAT NEWS!!!

I just got a call from my service advisor at Thompson Toyota. He informed me that a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) will be released today. He will call me when parts come in and can get it fixed. It is costing Toyota a lot because they have to remove the dash and front end.

I will post when I have more information.

-Ben

[NYCTRD]

Originally Posted by FlyNdrive

GREAT NEWS!!!

I just got a call from my service advisor at Thompson Toyota. He informed me that a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) will be released today. He will call me when parts come in and can get it fixed. It is costing Toyota a lot because they have to remove the dash and front end.

I will post when I have more information.

-Ben

TSB means they'll fix it if they spot it.

I think a RECALL is much more appropriate to reinforce EVERY FJ SOLD THUS FAR. My hunch is MOST will have cracks by 100-k...

[FlyNdrive]

If you don't have cracks why would you want to get new fender liners?

Recalls are more of a safety issue and are for more immediate and urgent matters. With the fix costing several thousand dollars per vehicle a doubt they will ever make this a recall. On the other hand all recalls start out as a TSB until more information on the scope of the affected vehicles can be determined. If it becomes a recall every vehicle will be handled not just warranty vehicles.

The same complaints happened with the rear diff breakage. Owners demanded that a recall be put into place and everyone was complaining that they don't want to get broken down in the desert, walk it out to civilization and get eaten by buzzards in the process. A recall hasn't happened yet and I doubt it will ever come to that. Remember this is a car company not a charity.

-Ben

[NYCTRD]

Originally Posted by FlyNdrive

If you don't have cracks why would you want to get new fender liners?

Recalls are more of a safety issue and are for more immediate and urgent matters. With the fix costing several thousand dollars per vehicle a doubt they will ever make this a recall. On the other hand all recalls start out as a TSB until more information on the scope of the affected vehicles can be determined. If it becomes a recall every vehicle will be handled not just warranty vehicles.

The same complaints happened with the rear diff breakage. Owners demanded that a recall be put into place and everyone was complaining that they don't want to get broken down in the desert, walk it out to civilization and get eaten by buzzards in the process. A recall hasn't happened yet and I doubt it will ever come to that. Remember this is a car company not a charity.

-Ben

Because if I'm right, the cracking will ecentually happen to all unreinforced aprons & wheel wells.

I thought mine was just a small bulge...but when the factory rep put it on the lift & scraped the undercoating away, I could plainly see a CRACK.

Now if this was left alone and continued, eventually your going to have gaping rips and it will turn into a safety issue.

Time will tell-These are all suppositions at this point.

[fjdave5341]

Question:
Ive been reading about the fix with the inner fenders (should see a TSB soon). This is GREAT news for those affected already, I could use some advice though:

I own an 07 FJC that does not have any symptoms of body rips as of yet. It sounds as if the TSB will only cover those with panels that have affected signs of bulging/tearing. Murphy's law states that I will not see these on my rig until after the warranty period is up. I think I fall into the majority of 07-08 owners when I say this. Are our only two options to either 1) beat the piss off the vehicle offroad in hopes the bulges show before the warranty runs out or 2) bend over and take it when they show up at the 37K mark? Any advice anyone may have for us that are unaffected so far would be greatly appreciated.

[gotvenm]

Originally Posted by fjdave5341

Question:
Murphy's law states that I will not see these on my rig until after the warranty period is up.

Murphy hates me as well...

I currently have no bulges, can the brace not be put in without tearing apart the fenders?

[Blues Dawg]

I have 2 very small cracks at 34.5K - gonna get to the dealer to document these next week. However, I'm not sure how these could turn into a safety issue?

Now, if this is a problem on all FJC's, it would appear that this is what is known as a latent defect - and thus not necessarily subject to warranty limits. Also, isn't the body perferation warranty longer than the 36/36? I know that is focused on rust, but again one would not expect to see holes in the fenders in a rig less than 2 years old.

Just my $.02...

[FlyNdrive]

We can play what if all day, but the fact is that Toyota is doing something about it. This new one is the third fender apron design, and is the first step of many toward a total resolution. The owners in Australia with the Prado's have been complaining about cracks for months and has not even gotten a recognition that there is a problem.

Continue to call 800-331-4331 and document your concerns with a Toyota Customer Service Representative. That's what you can do to help.

-Ben

[Toledo FJ]

FJDave,
You could always just put a dent in the area, take it to the dealer and have it documented as a bulge! That way you are protected if you do ever develop a problem. I know it is dishonest, but I don't really care. I guess I have loose morals to say the least!

[fjdave5341]

Originally Posted by Toledo FJ

FJDave,
You could always just put a dent in the area, take it to the dealer and have it documented as a bulge! That way you are protected if you do ever develop a problem. I know it is dishonest, but I don't really care. I guess I have loose morals to say the least!

That would be almost as low-down as Toyota not covering all vehicles regardless or mileage ).....actually I am afraid dealerships are pretty good at sniffing fake stuff like that.......Bottom Line for me is Toyota either covers it pas 36K or I am in the market for another vehicle......thanks for the advice though )

[NYCTRD]

I'd be curious if anyone else with this problem was also given the impression this WOULD NOT be handled after the initial warranty period of 3 years/36,000 miles.

I'm NOT in a hurry to have a New Jersey body shop tear my rig (literally) apart at the seams...and would like to put this off until I have MAJOR cracks.

Please share your experiences.

[Jim S.]

Our fj was documented by the dealer several months back. Later examined thoroughly by regional rep. Was informed that a repair would be accomplished when the new fenders were available. .... But the fix would have to be accomplished before the warranty runs out.

[FJCRUZR]

Originally Posted by Jim S.

regional rep.

The Regional Rep. in the Atlanta area is an ass

Sorry...I m done now.

[Toledo FJ]

I wasn't being too serious about denting your fender. I can't imagine you'd want to do that anyhow. I have a slight dent in the area in question that I think was caused by a careless tech during the CAI instal. It is almost invisible, but I didn't want to take any chances with bulges. So I had it documented at the dealer as a possible early bulge just to be careful in the event that I actually do develop bulges. I agree with NYCTRD. I think this problem is eventually going to effect many vehicles. It is clearly an engineering flaw, so it will be widespread. Keep in mind that the vast majority of FJ owners never open their hoods, don't stay informed about vehicle issues, and probably wouldn't know how to spot a problem even if they did see it. I love my truck and I'm keeping it forever regardless of if it bulges or not. I don't even know if I'll bother with the repair if it does happen. If it doesn't impact the safety or overall integrity of the vehicle I may just say **** it. Once the fix is available, I can always decide to have it done and it will be covered because of the early documentation. Gook luck everyone!

[spaldam]

I seriously doubt that a recall will never happen for this, because it's not a safety issue, and can only be seen if you lift the hood. I'm also doubt that every vehicles will develop the problem. Even if most of the FJCs get bulges, most will probably be minor enough that most people won't even notice it. I really don't see a need for a recall.

As for warranty issues, it really depends on your state's laws. Some will require them to fix it as long as it occurred before the warranty was out regardless. In other states they can get away with not fixing it after the warranty is over.

Toyota Warranty and Coverage

[NYCTRD]

Originally Posted by FJCRUZR

The Regional Rep. in the Atlanta area is an ass

Sorry...I m done now.

I was lucky...the rep I had in NJ was great. Got right back to me, was clear & concise.

Now that this is (more or less) "out in the open" as far as Toyota's concerned, there'll likely be more uniform responses across the country. But a friendly rep (and dealer) does help.

Toyota's gonna go the way of Detroits big 3 if they don't watch their act!

[Brock]

can someone post a picture for us with new FJs and no bulges...so far?

[FJCRUZR]

Originally Posted by FJCRUZR

The Regional Rep. in the Atlanta area is an ass

Sorry...I m done now.

Originally Posted by NYCTRD

I was lucky...the rep I had in NJ was great. Got right back to me, was clear & concise.

Now that this is (more or less) "out in the open" as far as Toyota's concerned, there'll likely be more uniform responses across the country. But a friendly rep (and dealer) does help.

Toyota's gonna go the way of Detroits big 3 if they don't watch their act!

I now use a much friendlier dealer and have no problems with them even if my truck is modify...