Sand Ladders, its a good item to buy it?

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by r3run33

I have used the floor carpet mats and they actually worked; the maxtrax would be cool but they are expensive

so just to get this straight... it's literally just... carpet?

[r3run33]

honest i wish i had pictures from that day it was super soft sand very hot ;dug a path and used the floor mats ( carpet) laid outboth front and back and used the rear cargo floor one for the front and it worked.

[r3run33]

i want to get a winch b/c now when i go i am very cautious and avoid the super soft stuff. I dont want to get an arb bumber b/c of the weight issues would love to add just a winch but i think to get a strong enough winch some thing has to be done upfront. here in the usa toyota does not offer a front winch package one thing i noticed is that those ladders also work as good shovels

[NorCal Cruiser]

I've had good luck using truck mud flaps- Discount Work Gear, Inc. :: Truck Accessories :: Semi Truck Mud Flaps

[ianfotheringham]

so here in Oman, where desert - sandy dune kind of desert - is the norm i have learned many bits and pieces previously unknown to me through direct experience - firstly - while i am currently preping my fj45 troopie i am enduring a feat of patience being forced by predicament to drive a 98 cherokee - with aptly named 'super digger' tires....and after getting seriously effin stuck more times than i would ever care to admit - i have learned a few things from the yocals...firstly - and im talking in sand sand, not sand with rock or hard sand - but in sand sand....like you would imagine in a desert....anyway - before hitting it put your pressure down to no more than 20psi - then when you get stuck and desperate you can bring it down further - but anything lower than 10 and you really run the risk of having your bead bust off your rim further worsening your little predicament....so as soon as you start digging in with one wheel [as will happen], stop! - and tell yourself to write down: 'i need to invest in diff lockers for my stupid sand sinking-in car' ... now that thats done - get out - reduce your pressure - keep it in first [if you have an auto you're extra hooped] and keep the wheels going as long as you're moving a little - but if they are digging then you're there to stay - and if this has happened your silly little sand ladders are probably of very little use - and by this i am speaking only form personal experience as i come from the same mid set that when one gets stuck that they need to stick all kinds of random crap under the wheels - you should see my floor mats - looks like i have hosted formula-one races at my feet....where as in reality you need to increase your tires footprints and reduce the weight on them - and you need lockers as stock diffs are actually designed to get you more stuck once you start getting there...so - now you're wicked stuck - and therefore the only thing to due is to winch yourself out - oops - only you're in the desert with nothing to attach to - no friends - and as a matter of, no winch! - and no big gay pull-pall because you're too realistic to spend 500 bones on a fancy shovel...hmmmm...now what - good thing you brought your hi-lift jack with something to stick under it - now - jack your rig up in which ever corner its stuck - stick some new stuff under it - make sure none of the wheels are buried - and take off foo!

all there is to it.

[ianfotheringham]

ps - NO ONE here uses silly sand ladders - the only thing i would ever consider them for would be to protect my windows [but if you protect those windows - how do you protect the others?] or to use as portable benches and the such - unless they were strong enough to use for bridging - which the normal ones arent....

so - if you have sand ladders dont come to oman - they will laugh at you.

[Mace]

Originally Posted by ianfotheringham

ps - NO ONE here uses silly sand ladders - the only thing i would ever consider them for would be to protect my windows [but if you protect those windows - how do you protect the others?] or to use as portable benches and the such - unless they were strong enough to use for bridging - which the normal ones arent....

so - if you have sand ladders dont come to oman - they will laugh at you.

Classic..

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about

[ianfotheringham]

Originally Posted by Mace

Classic..

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about

shame macey - you've obviously made an unwise investment....

[joshoisasleep]

It was my understanding that tall skinny tires were best in the desert.

check out ihana.com ... those guys used their waffle boards and sand ladders a LOT. When you need em you need em. I think it's true though that most people will never need them and should not bother carrying them around... they're a tool for those who are frequently on rough/loose terrain in the middle of nowhere with no help. Weekend wheelers really probably don't need to bother with them, as they're likely in a convoy and can go home at the end of the day.

[samba]

this might be a stupid question, but i do not own a set of ladders and dont know any one who does. i also spend a lot of time in the desert and sand, but its mostly beach sand which changes consistency a lot. heres the question, once you get the ladders in place and you finally get rolling in the sand sand, how do you recover the ladders without stopping and getting stuck again? is it a two person job where one grabs the ladders and runs to jump in? i just have this picture in my mind of having to use them over and over again until firmer sand is reached. i dont know, like i said ive never used them or seen them in action.

[e9999]

I am still struggling with the notion of what is fine sand...
I have been a lot in sand in the US Western States and never got stuck. Yes, progression forward impeded many times while playing on steep slopes, but always could back down again in reverse.
Now, this was not talcum kind of sand, was coarser than that, admittedly.
So, I can't talk about the real real fine talcum powder kind of deep sand -if there is such thing out there, if so please describe, I'm interested- but for "normal" sand, I can't see a sand ladder being too essential.

But, I really support the notion that you don't air down all the way from the beginning, keep a bit more airing down in reserve you get you out of predicaments!

[JO MAOMA]

Originally Posted by samba

this might be a stupid question, but i do not own a set of ladders and dont know any one who does. i also spend a lot of time in the desert and sand, but its mostly beach sand which changes consistency a lot. heres the question, once you get the ladders in place and you finally get rolling in the sand sand, how do you recover the ladders without stopping and getting stuck again? is it a two person job where one grabs the ladders and runs to jump in? i just have this picture in my mind of having to use them over and over again until firmer sand is reached. i dont know, like i said ive never used them or seen them in action.

tether them to the rear bumper and drag them along...

[JO MAOMA]

Originally Posted by e9999

So, I can't talk about the real real fine talcum powder kind of deep sand -if there is such thing out there, if so please describe, I'm interested.....

find someone who has raced dakar and ask them about fesh-fesh...

[joshoisasleep]

Just got stuck on the beach again tonight (you'd think I'd learn). Wish I'd had sand ladders, although to be fair the bits of plywood I had worked well. I aired down to like 15 and nothing happened until I used the plywood... my truck is quite heavily loaded so that could be why. Its true you can use lots of different things for sand... it's bridging where you really need ladders. Then again, if I hadn't had the plywood I might have been SOL...

[ianfotheringham]

Originally Posted by joshoisasleep

It was my understanding that tall skinny tires were best in the desert.

check out ihanna.com ... those guys used their waffle boards and sand ladders a LOT. When you need em you need em. I think it's true though that most people will never need them and should not bother carrying them around... they're a tool for those who are frequently on rough/loose terrain in the middle of nowhere with no help. Weekend wheelers really probably don't need to bother with them, as they're likely in a convoy and can go home at the end of the day.

the thing this with tall thin tires is that they are super for gas economy - but when in sand they act something like knives, cutting into sand...which is bad - the idea is to create as much surface area as possible [read: fat tires] - kind of like snowshoes, thus distributing the weight of your ride to as much ground as possible...this is also the reason for airing down your tire pressure - as the more you do, the less pressure you put on the sand per square inch...ideally for sand you would want as little as possible - hook yourself up with some of these bad boys and you'd be applying something like 1psi......

[joshoisasleep]

Yeah I understand the principal of spreading the weight, but I had been told that the reason the old school military desert landrovers had used tall thin tires was to cut through the loose sand on the top, and get down to the packed down deeper layers where they could get more grip instead of spinning on the surface.

[Bogo]

Originally Posted by joshoisasleep

Yeah I understand the principal of spreading the weight, but I had been told that the reason the old school military desert landrovers had used tall thin tires was to cut through the loose sand on the top, and get down to the packed down deeper layers where they could get more grip instead of spinning on the surface.

That only works till you get to the really deep soft sand, then you have back up and route around... Same principal works in mud.

[Mace]

Originally Posted by ianfotheringham

shame macey - you've obviously made an unwise investment....

Yep, I have never sen a situation where sand ladders made a difference that airing down would not have.

[AdventureBuddies]

Interesting discussion. I agree that sand ladders are probably not necessary for the average US weekend wheeler. My opinion is that an expedition rig should carry bridging ladders which of course can double as sand ladders. For a 7500 lb rig with overhanging bumpers and a minimal lift, there are times when a bridging ladder could help you through a section that would be a piece of cake for a lighter, more lifted, better approach/departure angle type rig.

As for sand types, I have been to many Western US sand dune areas and beaches, and I'd say our sand is pretty easy to deal with. A few years ago I was traveling in Egypt and was out near the Libyan border in a place they call the "Great Sand Sea" (part of the Sahara) and there were places where walking barefoot on that sand I was sinking to my ankles. I've never seen anything like it in the states. That's the kind of sand you can get stuck in and that's the kind of sand where you definately want wide tires because there's no frim surface below. However, there were other places where the sand was so firm you could ride a bike on it. The changes in consistency probably have something to do with wind loading.

Anyway, if you're driving across Africa as I plan to do, it seems like it would make sense to carry sand ladders (or for me, bridging ladders) just in case. After all, if you're truly in the middle of nowhere, by yourself, with nothing for hundreds of miles in any direction, I can assure you that you don't want to get stuck and be sitting there cursing the day you decided that you didn't need sand ladders.

As for how to use them on the back tires (and recover them): tie 15 ft of rope to the front, outside of the sand ladder. Tie the other end to a tow loop on the outside of your bumper. Run the middle of the rope out away from the car to ensure that the tire will never roll over the rope - you don't need it wrapped around your axle, pinching brake lines. Do the same for the other side. You probably would benefit from lifting the tires and setting them back on the ladders. Now drive with your ladders in tow until you reach firm ground.

Ok, so after all that, anyone know where to get those nifty fiberglass waffleboards that can be bridging and sand ladders? I mean get them cheaply?

[joshoisasleep]

there's a few sites that sell waffles (google waffles, 4x4, landrover?), but I understand they're just rebranding them and selling em at a premium... they have a real life purpose that's not for 4x4ing, my advice would be to find out what that is and buy them from the appropriate supplier at much lower cost

[NLXTACY]

Molded Fiberglass Grating, RGP

[latinoguy]

As another option, how about using this: a hard plastic/nylon composite material used as poultry/kennel flooring. The pieces come in 2’ x 4’ sheets, and cost about $12 a piece. http://www.farmtek.com

I happen to use this a the flooring for my roof rack, but it I think it would be solid enough to be used as sand ladders...although they would be proned to flex...

[joshoisasleep]

got a link to the actual product?....

[sandcruiser]

just go to the farmtek site and search for PolyMax or flooring
they are almost $20/sheet now... still seems very reasonable. I'm going to see if I can find them down here for use on my roofrack. Would be nice to remove the rusty expanded metal and maybe lighten the load at the same time.

My thoughts on sand ladders are that they must work better than sticks and carpeting. They just have to. So if you find yourself in an area where you get stuck not-infrequently in muddy/sandy conditions, ladders might make sense. Otherwise, don't waste your $$ on 'em.

Incidentally: something to keep in mind on the air-down vs. sand ladder "debate": if you are truly out in the sticks and only find a little loose sand/mud, it might be a lot easier to use ladders than it is to air down then have to air up again for the road.

At the end of it all, sand ladders are like most other modifications in that if you have to ask "do I need it?" then the answer is probably "No. You don't need it."

[RHINO]

heres my take, sand ladders make self extraction easier and quicker, for those who are touring with time being a factor in distance sometimes, i'd say they are a good investment. for most of us a little time and effort is no biggie.