The perfect Pan-American Expedition Vehicle

[sandcruiser]

Anyone know if it is possible to get a locker in the rear end of a schoolbus? what the heck axles do they run, anyway?

Shortbus w/ locker w/ monster winch on front and rear..... add chains for the rear tires.... you'll get where you need to go. Sure, a Mog will go further, but at that point it probably won't go that much further. No offense, Jilt, but I get the impression that driver error will be the cause of most stucks, not vehicle incapability. If that is the case, having a much more able 4wd will probably just result in much, much more serious stucks.

A PTO would really be the best winch option. After that, I suspect that a large hydraulic would fit the bill.
A 12,000lb electric wouldn't be strong enough, and to go bigger starts requiring some pretty fancy alternator/battery configurations that add cost and complexity. I'll bet that they can source a small hydraulic pump that can run off of the motor directly. Maybe just an extra, dedicated, power steering pump.

So I'm back to suggesting the bus as the 1st choice.

I like Josh's extra vehicle idea, but lets keep in mind that they've already got two bikes and avid cyclists. Perhaps just adding an extra bike per person would be a good way to get into town (or out to ruins) to look around. If biking doesn't fit the bill, maybe a small motorcycle or scooter could be carried in the back of the bus or on a rack behind the bus.

I would not want to try to tow a vehicle behind. Good for side-trips, but bad for everything else.

I'll tell ya- all this planning is giving me some serous wanderlust!

$3,000 on eBay for new bus. $3,000 for goodies: build monster roofrack w/ roll-down protection for windows on bus as well as a seating/viewing platform on top with tripod mounts at each corner, add a milemarker winch, add a dedicated pump for winch, some lights up front for driving/fog, some lights on the sides/back for reversing and camping, several 12v fans for inside the bus, a locker on the rear, if possible, chains for the rear tires, two 2m x2m sections of cyclone fencing would make the ultimate in traction aiding devices for very muddy/sandy conditions (and store easily on the roofrack-- could even be incorporated into the security for windows)

Ok, I think I blew more than 3K above. :(

Also inject $1,000 into complete motor overhaul-- all new hoses & belts and fix any/all leaks and do whatever PM those big old motors require, but at least a new water pump and a radiator cleanout/pressure test.

Oh, paint. But I guess that could be a work-in-progress as you go south.

Personally, I'd incorporate some simple heating devices and some good filters so that I can run some veggie oil. Yeah yeah yeah, no good at cold spots. Fair enough. There are plenty of very warm areas in Central/South America!

The beauty of the huge bus is that folks can sleep inside and/or outside as weather/safety permits... carry tons of gear... keep stuff in boxes welded to the floors for petty-theft protection... and walk around when not driving. Which is a serious luxury on such a long trip. When desired, adding the cyclists into the vehicle is trivial, quick, and easy to undo.

Ok, nuff outta me for now. Gotta Work!

[dmc]

i'm going to hijack this thread just a titch based upon Sandcruiser's (man i should have come to tamarindo to buy you a beer when i was in CR. i was lost and wandering, the one country i wish i could do over) comments about overhauling the motor.

Jilt is sounds like you want to go new and/or reliable (land cruiser) because of a lack of mechanical knowledge. whatever route you take i would suggest someone in your group get some crash course mechanic training. obviously you can service the bikes. a rig is not going to be much different. just bigger and far dirtier. you won't always have access to a forum like this (unless you'll have bgan then ignore me) and it might be put on your own shoulders to fix a problem or even more importantly diagnose the severity of it. two quick examples from my last 5 months.

I started blowing fuses in Peru. Hopped on MUD and did a search. The answer was one of a few hundred things. I had the basic skills to start trouble shooting each one, one at a time to source the problem. I'm not going to rebuild any motors but i'm not afraid to change my own oil. i'm somewhere in the middle with my skills.

As I rolled into Ushuaia I noticed a noise from my rear end. I climbed around the truck found the problem and more importantly knew it was okay to pull the driveshaft, engage the center diff lock and drive in 2wd for the rest of my trip. I had done the same thing on my way to Alaska a few winters ago.

So you or someone in the truck should have beyond just basic skills. Depending on your route you will find yourself in places where you won't see anyone for days (happened to me on a beach in peru and it was bliss) or where you don't want to see people. either way some knowledge will help. i'm sure you've thought about all this and i'm not telling you something new but along with all your lists i'm sure you're creating (i only had 4, for one guy and no documentary) you need to put this near the top. it will save you headache, hassle and money to work on your own truck.
dmc

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by canucksafari

I can't believe the term Land Rover actually made it in a tghread were dependability is key. They are horrible for quality - especially their electrics and oil leaks.

I should add that I have no experience with landrovers, save what I've viewed and read (not that much). ihana.com* -* the story of wicked travels through latin america is an example of a pair of guys who did a trip like this in a rover. I would like to play with one some day.

@ sandcruiser: I don't see what the major downsides are to towing a samurai. It doesn't weigh anything. On long highway stretches it's not going to get in the way, and for city driving/parking/dodgy roads it can be detached instantly and you're a 2 truck convoy. On the off chance that you encounter a situation where your bus is somehow truly stuck, the Samurai CAN get out of it and get help or whatever... those things are like quads and a small winch will pull one through a pit of superglue. IMO this just allows you to choose a larger 'basecamp' vehicle, and adds back in the redundancy benefits.

[Bogo]

Originally Posted by Jlit

We've been looking further into unimog options for the vehicle, but to the best of my understanding, they're only available with a 2 seat cab, whereas we need something for 5-6.

An old doka cab Unimog will likely set you back only $25,000. With two bench seats it will hold 6.

[Jlit]

Alright guys, we would love to do this expedition with 2 toyota hilux's. What is it going to take to get two new ones up here? The closest place we've found thus far is mexico city. Anyone know of anything closer to the border?

Also, there are some cool features of the tundra I can't find out about on the hilux. With the tundra, though automatic, can be driven like a standard. Seems very practical. Also, the rear crew cab window rolls down offering a lot of access to the back of the truck, also handy. I test drove a tundra today and was very impressed, especially with the turning radius.

How would you compare the tundra to the hilux? Also, storage space comparison?

thanks.

[mikeincognito]

Hilux comes also automatic (Diesel Turbo). And also have the little window in the back...that slides open to access the camper. Check out the specs in the Toyota Australia website (just because the Toyota websites for latin america are all in spanish).

[Eshu Elegua]

anyone use 34 x 10.50 16 on steel rims-(the one like the old land rover pizza cutter type rims) ....On tires Q 78 or LTB ,with Old Man Emu 3 inch heavy-heavy, so i can have a picture of your fj-60 ? The LTB have a load carrier E( on 16 size) ,what´s the difference between c (15 tire ) and e load carrier ? I love expedition type fj60,my 87 still stock factory and with a few photos i can start building mine the right way, i dont want wider rims-tires...tall and skinny rules the jungle !!!! Thanks Jose

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by Jlit

Alright guys, we would love to do this expedition with 2 toyota hilux's. What is it going to take to get two new ones up here?

How badly do you want them? I'm in Guatemala City and for the right price I could drive two up. I'm heading north at the end of May anyways. Taxes importation etc. etc. are all your problem as they are NOT registerable in the USA!

[1tontoy]

Jlit: IIRC, The petrol Hilux IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS A TACOMA. If you must have a turbo diesel (which we all recommend), your closest will be Guatemala.

[sandcruiser]

Josh: I'm just not a fan of towing anything.
We dragged an "off road" trailer behind the 60 for the baja portion of our trip. Now, baja is wayyy more trailer friendly than most of Central America, but by the time we were done with baja, I HATED that little trailer. It just makes it so much more difficult to maneuver.

Adding a suzuki will also double the toll road costs, while only increasing their payload capacity by a teensy tiny bit, and will also increase shipping costs by a fair amount (I think? You know better than I do on that one!)

Finally: to be frank, I think that Jilt is already overpacking/oversupplying on this whole thing by a fair margin and I think that any recommendation to keep it light(er) is a good one.

Last thought for now.... while TD hilux is a great platform for this trip, the expense of going outside the USA to get them and bring them back, and the insurance hassles... even if you drive them a LOT for two years you aren't going to save much on fuel using the diesel vs. the gas. The gassers are quieter and (mostly) parts should be cheaper. But mostly, you can get 'em in the USA. I'd still take 80 series cruisers... but grab a two-door tacoma and a 4dr tacoma, and off you go! Does Toyota USA still make an extra cab vs. 4 door? if so, then I'd take an extra cab and a 4dr.

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by sandcruiser

Josh: I'm just not a fan of towing anything.
We dragged an "off road" trailer behind the 60 for the baja portion of our trip. Now, baja is wayyy more trailer friendly than most of Central America, but by the time we were done with baja, I HATED that little trailer. It just makes it so much more difficult to maneuver.

Well I agree with you there... I've absolutely refused to tow a trailer behind my 60 even with all our stuff. But that's a 60, it's a lot more maneuverable than a school bus... my logic behind towing behind the bus is that it's a big vehicle anyway... I wouldn't think it would be even all that noticeable.

Originally Posted by sandcruiser

Adding a suzuki will also double the toll road costs, while only increasing their payload capacity by a teensy tiny bit, and will also increase shipping costs by a fair amount (I think? You know better than I do on that one!)

I wouldn't think you'd get charged extra for towed vehicles at toll roads. For shipping, yeah that's a point. However you COULD technically put the samurai IN the bus if you set it up that way.

Originally Posted by sandcruiser

Finally: to be frank, I think that Jilt is already overpacking/oversupplying on this whole thing by a fair margin and I think that any recommendation to keep it light(er) is a good one.

Hey he's a film crew! In the spirit of documentary, I'd want to have plenty of vehicle to vehicle shots as well as maximum versatility.

Can you get ANYTHING diesel in the US? It might be worth it to look into professional diesel conversions. At $10k per truck that isn't too bad for an expedition of this magnitude. You'll end up saving that in just fuel costs, and then get all the benefits of diesel including added resale value.

[Live to Ski]

Hm, I've seen short WB heavey duty buses with factory 4x4.

Here's an example:
4X4 School Bus - Binder Bench

or

Home

[Jlit]

Flying down to mexico city, and driving back up north, though a hassle, would be a good way to get a brief introduction to the expedition. I've also heard the Hilux is going to be released in the US in august, perhaps we can connect with toyota to get an earlier release 4 months ahead of schedule. If you were us, would you guys make a trip down and bring up 2 hilux's or go with the tundra's?
-thanks

[Bogo]

About graphics. I'd not have anything permanently painted for graphics. On the other hand a set of magnetic sign sheets that you can apply for filming and take off other times would work.

Think carefully about what color for your vehicles. Look at what colors are most common in central and south america and select from them. Don't go with anything that is distinctive or USA only.

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by Jlit

Flying down to mexico city, and driving back up north, though a hassle, would be a good way to get a brief introduction to the expedition. I've also heard the Hilux is going to be released in the US in august, perhaps we can connect with toyota to get an earlier release 4 months ahead of schedule. If you were us, would you guys make a trip down and bring up 2 hilux's or go with the tundra's?
-thanks

The roads in Mexico, especially the northern half, are better than further south and Central America, as is most other things. Think of it a little like "Latin America Lite". They may release the HiLux in the US but I am 99.9% positive it will NOT be diesel. The Tundra is a US ONLY Toyota, they don't make or sell it in other markets (no one else wants such a large pickup but Americans). The HiLux is a global market vehicle. The new diesel Hilux that a fellow at the school has is made in Argentina.

[sandcruiser]

4x4 bus. Ugly color. Otherwise very well suited for this trip.

Please don't take Tundras. I think you'll regret it. As said previously-- USA only vehicle is going to stand out and be harder to get repaired. I've got a friend here w/ a Tundra. He hates getting parts for it here and just told me the other day that he just flies to Miami now, buys there, and flies back. RT air is less than $400 and he saves a week or three of downtime (and the parts are usually 2/3 the price anyway).

I'll stop mentioning 80s after this post..... but I still think that they would be cheaper, easier, and more comfy. What you spend on extra fuel, you'll recoup on lower purchase cost.

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by Jlit

Flying down to mexico city, and driving back up north, though a hassle, would be a good way to get a brief introduction to the expedition. I've also heard the Hilux is going to be released in the US in august, perhaps we can connect with toyota to get an earlier release 4 months ahead of schedule. If you were us, would you guys make a trip down and bring up 2 hilux's or go with the tundra's?
-thanks

The answer to that is easy. If you're considering flying to Mexico, buying hilux's, and driving them back. It's really not very much farther to Guatemala (look on a map, central america's a tiny place!), so go the extra tiny bit and get diesel hilux's! Also maybe then you can convince cruiser guy to help you out with any tricky details. You'd be going what 5% further to get a 150% more suitable vehicle IMO!
Although, either going to mexico or guatemala, i doubt you'll ever be able to register them *legally* in the US

[n2666s]

+ you will be less of a target with a mexican or guatemalan tag

Lou

[sandcruiser]

in a new vehicle, on toll roads in Mexico you won't feel much different than driving on the US interstate (except when you stop for food or fuel). Guatemala City to the US is only a few days, much of it on high-quality toll road if you want.

I'd check on pricing for a 78series cruiser in Guate as well, hilux are great trucks, but the Cruiser is built to handle heavier loads/heavier terrain- bigger axles, better suspension and more interior space. Probably more expensive and somewhat inferior mileage. The turbo diesel hilux might work better in the mountains than the 1hz in the Cruiser, which doesn't have a turbo (but should have an altitude compensator)

Saw this one in Costa Rica a few years ago and think it is near-perfect for overlanding.

[dmc]

I agree with sandcruiser. if you're going to go to mexico to get rigs, go to Guat, buy 2 used HZJ78s and go that route. the Hilux is a great vehicle but Cruisers have stouter frames and running gear to handle the load as well as things like lockers and full float rear axles. you may not ever use them but nice to have just in case. you could get from guat city to texas in a few days easily. the toll roads in most of mexico are just like US interstates.
dmc

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by dmc

The toll roads in most of mexico are just like US interstates.
dmc

Yep, if there wasn't toll booths every 1/2 hour at 100 pesos a time! Sometimes I use the toll roads and sometimes I take the "libre" roads. It depends on the terrain and if I'm in a hurry or not. The toll roads can get expensive fast.

[dmc]

oh i agree with you on that. but i'm just talking the pace of getting back to the states. i took a bit of both on my route through mexico and think it worked out okay. it does get pricey fast but there are some days when you prefer cruise control and no thinking over speedbumps and small towns.
dmc

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by sandcruiser

The turbo diesel hilux might work better in the mountains than the 1hz in the Cruiser, which doesn't have a turbo (but should have an altitude compensator)

Huh really? I thought the 1hz was a factory turbo engine?? Only cause I just saw one and I thought it had a factory turbo in it??