The perfect Pan-American Expedition Vehicle

[Jlit]

Yeah, that's been my thought as well regarding driving towards panama. I think it's a really good idea for us to wait in medellin. From the last few days, however, we do agree that bikes through the darien would be a bad idea, so they will likely walk through as recommended. Once they clear the jungle, it would be best if they can start riding as soon as possible. What do you guys think about taking a cache with bicycles near there for them to pick up once they're through? Perhaps I could leave the vehicle and girls in medellin, and drop off equipment with the help of local enforcement? If they knew the location, could a small cache be hidden?

We've been looking further into unimog options for the vehicle, but to the best of my understanding, they're only available with a 2 seat cab, whereas we need something for 5-6. To outfit something bigger from Unicat, a larger expedition vehicle with a large cab and basic setup in the back, we were quoted around 700,000 dollars. Our goal with this whole mission is to raise awareness and build schools and orphanages, and 700,000 is more than I could justify, much less find sponsors to justify it as well.

I would rather not go with ford, but I don't know of a toyota setup large enough to outfit us with one vehicle. Is there an equivalent to an F-350, diesel, turbo, crew cab, extended bed? Even that fully outfitted, I think we could be short on space.

Thanks.

[joshoisasleep]

Just get a custom cab made (as mentioned in my little cost estimate ). I'm sure someone on here must know someone who does it.

I don't see any advantage to an F350. I think if you really want the "camper" on the back there's a lot of superior platforms that can be added to. And I think with that setup you'll DEFINITELY be short on space. If you didn't want self sufficiency I'd say no problem take a BJ60... or a pink cadilac. But if you're not planning on staying in hotels the whole way, then sleeping and carrying that many people, PLUS your gear which takes up a lot of space. Basically I don't really think the campered pickup gives you much if any space advantage over a 60 with a roof tent. With that weight at that distance in those conditions, your F350 is also going to fall apart.

Old army trucks can be had cheap too. I think they sometimes have PTO winches. Maybe finding out if there's something you can get that's in commercial use in South America for parts availability would be a good idea.

[cruiser_guy]

If you're looking for a single vehicle large enough for housing and transporting 5-6 people just get an old school bus as has been suggested earlier and do what you need to so you can travel and live in that. There are lots of old US school buses doing public bus duty in Central America.

[Jlit]

Ok, we're thinking pretty affirmatively of a compromise between all of the above. We're thinking of going with 2 vehicles for safety: 2 toyota 08 tundras, crew cab, short bed(because you can't get a longer bed with the crew cab), camper shell, and just fixing them up a little to work, ie, roof rack, bumpers, lifts, winches, aquatic setup for the rainy season, and wheels. What do you guys think?

[Wanna_40]

Hello all,

I've been lurking for a couple years actually but this is my first post... I see Unimogs mentioned which I think might be a good idea but dang parts are expensive for them, top speed/mileage is bad and cab options are limiting. Why not one of the Volvo C30X/TGB trucks? My uncle has a TGB 1313 (C304?) that was previously a Swedish radio truck which he converted to a camper and is currently treking across Africa in... Talk about plenty of room, plus it has somewhat better top speed/mileage as a mog. Not to mention, they use the Volvo B30 engine and Landrover brake parts so they are available and at a fraction of mog parts. I'm in the process of buying a C303/TGB 11 that I'm setting up to drive to Costa Rica this time next year.

Do a google image search for TGB 1313 or 1314, I think that could be easily modified to perfectly suit your needs.

-JD

[sandcruiser]

Two Tundras are pretty likely to make it just fine. If you were going for longer than about a year, you might want to look at older vehicles (easier to fix/find parts)

You might also seriously consider two diesel 80-series trucks. You can get them in Panama for pretty good prices, then either ship them up to the USA or drive them up in about a week of *hard* driving.

Even if you don't go diesel... I'd rather use two 80series cruisers than two Tundras. More durable. Less breakable. Better comfort. And wayyyyyyyyyy easier to source parts in Central America (Tundras aren't a popular option in Costa Rica at least-- you can get a hilux for 4 people or a landcruiser pickup for real work). With the 80, you could also find two good quality vehicles w/ lockers. Then real expedition mods have been tried and proven by dozens of people on this list alone.

You would have slightly more cargo space in the Tundras. But with two vehicles for 5 people, you shouldn't be too cramped on cargo.

Final thought: Skip the Wolfhounds!! Based on the comments by that breeder, you haven't got the dogs yet and are rather getting them for this trip. A wolfhound is going to weigh in at 130lbs or so and measure nearly a meter at the withers. That's a bad choice in a vehicle for long periods. And just imagine A) how frikkin hot they are going to be (Central America, for the most part, does not resemble Ireland in temperature) and B) how *amazingly* bad they are going to smell after they roll in the mud to cool off.

I know, you are worried about security. Fair enough. But, and this will be backed up by every single central american Mudder: People in Central America have a very large measure of respect for the damage that a small dog can do. Said otherwise: folks down here are afraid of dogs. If someone is going to disturb you/your camp with a 30-50lb dog present, they are going to do the same to a 130lb dog.... the sick and sad truth is that they'll throw a pound of hamburger meat with some poison in it and the size of the dog isn't going to make much difference.

I've got a mutt that weighs in at 23kg (about 50lbs) measures less than 2 feet at the withers, and will scare the living crap out of anyone who wanders into my camp/car when they shouldn't be there. She eats 1/3 as much as a wolfhound, and can curl up neatly into the front footwell of the cruiser even if someone is sitting in the passenger seat (not for hours at a time). In a pinch, I can carry here under one arm (for a little while) if she is hurt or if there are a bunch of army ants (been there, done that).

Short-hair dogs can wear a blanket if it gets really cold. They dry quickly and don't shed everywhere. Most importantly-- they are easy to clean up after the mud.

Get a pit bull mix. They are compact and notoriously protective.

Another GREAT option would be an Australian shepherd, but they are really high-energy and might not do so great for 8 hours at a stretch in the car. But they are smart, attentive and protective.

Or heck, for that matter, get a small-sized lab (I think the "english" ones are smaller than the "american"). Sweet dogs, but plenty willing to protect their pack.

The point is- you don't need a HUGE beast, unless you plan to use them as your last-ditch recovery technique for getting the trucks out of the mud, in which case.... bring ponies.

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by sandcruiser

Another GREAT option would be an Australian shepherd

Or a short-haired, long-tailed, short-legged, long-toothed australian fighting dog...

We spent hours and hours before we left trying to come up with the ultimate Vehicle Protection Pet. Many people suggested that dogs are a bad idea because they can get you into more trouble than they'll get you out of. Also, because of the way they cool themselves (tongue only), they are a bad choice as they will die in a hot car.

We came up with:
1. a very large snake. Snakes will happily lie on a hot dashboard all day, and if you get a dangerous one, nobody wants to break into your car (unless they deal in exotic pets!). Cons: snakes are not cuddly, and it might also kill you
2. Goose. In a car... What were we thinking?
3. Medium sized cat. Really, does the average car thief want to fight off an ocelot or a bobcat? A female would be cuddly (apparently bobcats are extremely loyal to their owners). Also, in a pinch it could hunt for food!

in the end, we ended up with a very tiny kitten that we found in the street. She sleeps on the dashboard, and we like to think that the presence of even a very small animal prevents break ins, because there's something alive inside. She also bites a lot if they tried to pet her.

Ideally, I would like a large orangutan. He'd be happy hanging onto the roofrack or sitting inside, and could pull off a thief's arms. Also, with the right training he could act as a valet!

OK this is getting silly...

[joshoisasleep]

had a look on toyota Costa Rica website last night. Diesel 70's (1HZ) are currently sold brand new. Didn't have prices though.

[canucksafari]

Ever see a dog with mange? Likelihood your dogs will catch mange is probably 100% if you spend a lot of time in the countryside and allow your dogs out where other dogs are running or have run. Do you want to ride with dogs which have mange?

[dmc]

08 Tundras are VERY uncommon south of the US. brand new they'll be fine but also attract attention. the new 200 series cruisers south of the US get the old 4.7 v8 or a diesel so do not share drivetrain components with the Tundra.

maybe look into something like this. a helluva a lot cheaper for 2 than 700k. it was very nice and clean inside, tons of room and they could separate themselves from the cab and essentially lock themselves in the camper section.

spare parts would be widely available throughout your trip for the drivetrain. it has lockers, a long range tank and diesel for economy.
dmc

[joshoisasleep]

Another thing about the dogs... why not pick up one of the many strays that you'll see down there instead of buying expensive purebreds? Rescued dogs are known to be fiercely loyal and protective of their owners - sometimes more so than dogs that have been babied with a good easy doggy life. Not only will people be afraid to even touch your dog let alone mess with it, but it'll be armed with a tough doggy street upbringing that will mean you won't have to worry about "what's that weird thing it's eating". All that, and your pet will have awesome character... "I found him in Nicaragua..."
Also, it's possible that purebreds are likely to be stolen and may make you more of a target...

[sandcruiser]

x2 on the stolen dogs thing, but I would think it is less likely with a fullgrown wolf hound.
You might find that smaller dogs get out of the puppy stage faster too, which will make them better travel companions and guards.

I feel like a lot of us are raining on your parade, sorry about that. Your expedition sounds fun and cool and wonderful! In your shoes I would worry less about theft/seizure and more about daily comfort & convenience. The dangers of all-out auto theft down here are less than most urban USA settings.

[n2666s]

Ahhh; brings back memories of the "good ol days" when you could drive from Cucuta through the "Paramo de Berlin" to Pasto unmolested except for police checkpoints............... from there on to Santiago on the "New Pan American" highway......transportation..........a 56 BMW 502...........there was even a road race from Buenos Aires to Caracas where the winning race car was a chevy of all things..........armored cars?, 4 WD? not neede for the regular roads...........incountry?, Toyota all the way; see what is being driven in the gold strike areas of Amazonia.........Toyotas; oil drillers did use Dodge Power Wagons 4WD with a winch around the Rio De Oro, Maracaibo and Eastern Venezuela areas............FWIW ...........

Lou

Lou

[n2666s]

security...........long haired northen dogs?!........a medium sized short haired stray local dog will be a much better choice, they are like mules, thrive on anything; all you want it for is for its bark!; for backup; a british Martin Dale or german Corneta Machete............keep it razor sharp...........they are high carbon steel and WILL hold an edge..........locals mow their lawns with them..........+ they are legal! my 0.02

Lou

[BJ 71]

Hey Jlit, glad to see you are making out better here then on the Benzworld Unimog forum. I would have thought the Unimog crowd would have been much more accepting and positive in their responses. I think the mention of Toyota Tundra's must have put them in defence mode. Don't let those few negative responses speak for all of us Unimog owners.

I just thought I would share a few good examples of Unimog expedition vehicles. They do have their draw back, such as slow speed and expensive parts. On the other hand their off road capability is amazing and they are capable of handling extreme weights on and off road.

[BJ 71]

Mercedes trucks have been used for all kinds of cross country adventures

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by sandcruiser

I feel like a lot of us are raining on your parade, sorry about that.

x2 on that. At least until I saw the Benzworld unimog forums! Wow those guys are a little harsh. I always hate when someone goes to a forum to do their research and people tell them they need to "go back and do their research"

Nice mog picures... that really big yellow one sure looks like it would do the trick. Although, it really does stick out... might increase your bribe costs...
I'd be really interested if someone could find out how much the 70's are for sale in Costa Rica.

[sandcruiser]

there was a built 78 for sale at Purdy Motors in Liberia (Costa Rica) for about $45K last year. It looked brand new and had ARB bullbar, OME suspension, a winch (warn?), ARB roofrack, 1hz motor, ff/rr lockers, 5 speed, 285/75r16 tires on grey split rims, arb snorkel, vinyl interior w/ manual windows...

Great truck! Lemme see if I have a photo anywhere....

[sandcruiser]

oops! I misremembered the price!! They were actually asking $67,000 for the built 78. Mid-$40's must be the stock troopy (hzj75). there are several more photos
here

[sandcruiser]

and here's another good Mog setup

[joshoisasleep]

Nice. That mog looks like it would suit the OP's purposes just fine. Add a roof tent to the front roof rack and comfortably sleep 4!

Sandcruiser: Do you think these are the same re-released 70 series you get in Australia, or the old 70 series still being sold new down there? I had kinda assumed it was the latter...

[sandcruiser]

definitely the newer, 78 series. Coil springs up front, 5 bolt wheels.

I would guess that there is room in that mog pop top to sleep 4 adults already. You could probably rig a fifth (and/or 6th) on a cot or two inside as well. Maybe not, not clear how big stuff is. But adding a 2- 4 person rooftop tent would be trivial.

[canucksafari]

I think you got some very good advise here and on Expo Portal. I think you need to spend less time worrying about your vehicle and more time learning about where you are planning to go by others who have been there. There are lots of web sites and good books out there. I would concur with the others about not needing a 4x4. The short school bus would be a better runner, less noticeble than a new Taco, would take all your gear and get you pretty much everywhere on a reasonable budget. The only way a LC or a Hilux is going to work for you is if you have two of them.

[mikeincognito]

Maybe the school bus idea with aussie flavor will be better.









Seriously i live in Latin America and the most reliable vehicle you can have here is a LC (either 78 or 80).

And about the security, don't worry about the dogs, unless they are bulletproof as well, I don't see how can they protect you if the delincuentes are carrying guns. Just use common sense, don't be too flashy and relax.

[n2666s]

and a mog smells, no, it reeks of money..........in countries where a days salary is 10$ and you are gringo's and flashing a mog........hehehe, did someone say target along with a couple of expensive looking long haired dogs............might be looking at spending a few years in a FARC rest camp bad guys carry cell phones and can set up a roadblock easily,,,,remember..the bad guys do and can wear military uniforms............just cause you arrive at a checkpoint and the guys there all are wearing uniforms it does not mean they are there to defend you; YOU might be the target..........low key is the way to go........subdued colored medium size bus or a cpl of landcruisers..my 0.02 good luck

Lou

[Jlit]

Yeah, dude, now there's a school bus I wouldn't have minded riding to school every morning. No traffic either...

Those are some really cool unimog setups for sure, but you guys do bring up very good points. I've pretty much ruled out unimog for that reason specifically, too much attention, plus financial reasons to get the right setup. We were thinking of going with tundras over tacomas mainly because of the power it's going to take to get through mountain ranges like those in bolivia, plus we need the maximum possible amount of storage space for all our gear. Film gear, communication gear, expedition gear, all-in-all, a metric s*** ton.

However, I think 3 important factors we would like for our vehicle are reliablility, diesel (if possible), and fixability. I thought a newer toyota would be best because it would have fewer breakdowns in the course of 3 years, please correct me if I'm wrong. Is the Hilux diesel? Also, we are setting up one large insurance plan here in california to cover people, equipment, and vehicles, and would it be an issue to register the hilux here in the US? I hear I can get a new one from guatemala, but where is the closest?

Also, I've barely heard anyone mention Land Rover. What do you guys think of newer rovers? Considering petrol, reliability, and fixability, do you think a land rover discovery is a good option? Or any other land rover option for that matter? I really question whether it could be enough space.

Two smaller vehicles or one larger? What do you guys think? There are many aspects of the short bus that I really like, however, over the course of 2 years down there, we'll be going through 2-3 rainy seasons which (to the best of my understanding) means slippery roads, dangerous ditches, and probably fording rivers when necessary. We are thinking a bus couldn't make it, or would offer too many problems. I feel I would rather go with 2 of something newer and more versatile, and save the hassle. There are serious benefits either way.