[MidLife]

Hello,

I've decided to make tires my first mod. I want to get a 255/85/16 because I've read that they are very good for expeditions.

My problem is deciding between a mud-terrain and an all-terrain.

I know that the mud-terrain will be a louder and rougher riding tire and that is a concern.

I was recently told that All-terrains are terrible for anything off-road, and that is a concern also.

Can anybody recommend one that is a good combination of both?

[wearsabrowncoat]

I think your selection is better for mud terrains in that size.

[ashooter]

I'm getting ready to switch my 80 over to that size and the two best alternatives I've seen look like Toyo M-55 and Cooper Discoverer S/T. The Toyo comes in an 8-ply now that is not insanely priced (if you can find them). The Cooper looks pretty agressive in person, but supposedly handles well on pavement. BFG Mud Terrains are what a lot of guys here seem to be using, but I would think they would not be very good for anything other than off-pavement driving.

You might do a search here for "m55" and "M-55". Everybody that has them seems to LOVE them.

[e9999]

Originally Posted by MidLife

snip

I was recently told that All-terrains are terrible for anything off-road
snip

what does that mean?

[Brian894X4]

I don't know that you have many options in that size. I know BF goodrich has a Mud Terrain T/A KM in that size.

Have you considered the 285/75R-16. It's a hair shorter, about an inch wider.

There are a lot more options in that size. I personally like the Goodyear MTRs, which I've been running for 6 years, but a more economical choice and still a very good tire would be the BF Goodrich, All Terrain T/A. And yes, they do work well in most off road conditions. The MTRs are very expensive and don't wear all that great.

Everything is a compromise and for an expedition vehicle, you're probably going to see lots of time on pavement, hardpacked roads and gravel roads, so a road friendly tire, as opposed to an extreme off road tire is something I would recommend and the BFG is a good all around road/off road tire.

Also, using a tire in a common size for whatever area you plan to travel in is a good idea in case you need to buy a replacement. 285 is a common size here in the states and from what I've read, the entire western hemisphere. Not sure about the other side of the world.

[joshoisasleep]

If you're going anywhere near snow you will feel very silly with mud terrains. In fact, if you're on an expedition and not spending a whole lot of time driving through serious mud, I'd feel silly with mud terrains. All Terrains are named aptly... they will get you through mud, snow, rocks, wet highways, and dry highways. Fuel economy would also decrease with mud terrains I believe.

[Brian894X4]

Originally Posted by joshoisasleep

If you're going anywhere near snow you will feel very silly with mud terrains. In fact, if you're on an expedition and not spending a whole lot of time driving through serious mud, I'd feel silly with mud terrains. All Terrains are named aptly... they will get you through mud, snow, rocks, wet highways, and dry highways. Fuel economy would also decrease with mud terrains I believe.

I respectfully disagree. At least when it comes to MTRs. Having them siped is the key, but they have been the best snow tire I've used when siped they work great on ice too. The only terrain where I've any issues with the MTRs is sand. They tend to dig down when you don't want them too. Airing down helps, though. I'm just talking about MTRs....I can't speak for other mud terrains.

[MidLife]

I live in Southern California and have never rock crawled, expeditioned, gone in sand.

I know this 4x4 stuff starts getting expensive real quickly (kind of like a boat does) and I really don't have lot of bananas on hand. So I guess I'm going to take a two pronged approach. The first is to keep Mods to the minimum. The second is not to do the heavy stuff where I am more likely to break my stuff.

I need a tire that can do the Pizmo beach for November's Turf-N-Surf.

I plan on driving up the California coast, into Oregon, through Washington, and into Canada and coming back down through the High Deserts of Eastern Oregon.

I plan on going to the Grand Canyon/Flagstaff, Sedona (nothing too crazy).

I will also be doing New Mexico, Colorado, and Wyoming.

Not all in the same year....

I figure the tires I am interested in are the Toyo M55, Toyo Open County MT, Yokahama Geolander MT,
Cooper Discoverer ST or SST, BFG MT K or K2, Bridgestone REVO and possibly the Hankook .

I prefer a thinner tire no more than a 265 (for reasons of economy), no taller than 33+" (so that I don't have to regear and not put too much stress on my drivetrain). I don't want a tire shorter than 32".

I prefer a tough tire that is less likely to let me down, but don't wan't to hear the loud humming that comes with some of these MTs.

Am I asking for too much? I don't know, but mainly because I have never 4x4'd. The M55 seem like it could handle all this or can I go with a cheaper easier riding tire that will handle what I want to do?

[e9999]

Originally Posted by Brian894X4

I respectfully disagree. At least when it comes to MTRs. Having them siped is the key, but they have been the best snow tire I've used when siped they work great on ice too. The only terrain where I've any issues with the MTRs is sand. They tend to dig down when you don't want them too. Airing down helps, though. I'm just talking about MTRs....I can't speak for other mud terrains.

My MTRs are great in sand.
Don't know about ice.

[e9999]

Mid:
to me, the durability of the tires is the primary issue if you're going to be out there in the boonies. You have to be sure they are strong enough that you won't end up with punctures or especially sidewall cuts too easily if you're going over some sharp rocks, thorny bushes etc. Traction is good, but lack thereof usually does not mean you have to walk back 50 miles whereas a weak sidewall may. So check the sideplies.


don't worry about Pismo, a street tire will do fine there.

[sandcruiser]

when I first got into driving offroad, a buddy gave me some excellent advice:

go drive. when you get stuck or break something, ask yourself "why". Then fix the problem.

you would probably be surprised at just how much you can do with a totally stock rig on street tires. Sure, you'll get stuck. Travel with a friend or two and they can pull you out.

Of course, before any of that..... fix any/all leaks, make sure your brakes and steering are in excellent shape.

finally: x2 on street tires for Pismo.... they'll work just fine. That event will be a good opportunity to see what other people are doing, and learn from their success

[MidLife]

Great advice, I just priced the Toyo M-55 and the prices went from $285 at the lowest and went up to $317 at the highest. Wow that takes a bite out of things.

I may look for a less expensive alternative. Not only that the salesman told me that the 8 ply Toyo M55 have been discontinued.

Is there a way to get them in a group buy or something?

I just figure that I am better off with a tire that can handle whatever I get myself into.
'

[roscoFJ73]

Originally Posted by MidLife

Great advice, I just priced the Toyo M-55 and the prices went from $285 at the lowest and went up to $317 at the highest. Wow that takes a bite out of things.

I may look for a less expensive alternative. Not only that the salesman told me that the 8 ply Toyo M55 have been discontinued.

Is there a way to get them in a group buy or something?

I just figure that I am better off with a tire that can handle whatever I get myself into.
'

Ive done a few desert trips on A/T and they are ok. I reguarly use them on the beach and they are also more puncture poof than road tyres

The M/T tend to break the surface in the sand

[hks3sgte]

I chose the Cooper S/Ts for my "expedition" Land Cruiser.

They were the perfect choice for me, as they would see as many tarmac miles as gravel miles.

They have taken me everywhere; snow, mud, dirt, sand, washboards... perfect tire, never had a flat... really skinny in person also, a little over 9" wide.

you can see how narrow they are...

[Phil in BC]

I'm in the process of looking for tires for my bj-74 and i've found some nice looking ones. Interco 9-34-16 super swamper, tall and skinny, 6 ply, $1167.04 all taxes in and installed. Looks a lot like the millitary use tires, and not over priced. Does anyone have these already to let us know how they are?

Phil

[hks3sgte]

Originally Posted by Phil in BC

I'm in the process of looking for tires for my bj-74 and i've found some nice looking ones. Interco 9-34-16 super swamper, tall and skinny, 6 ply, $1167.04 all taxes in and installed. Looks a lot like the millitary use tires, and not over priced. Does anyone have these already to let us know how they are?

Phil

I think you used the word "looks" too many times. The Swampers are very soft rubber which gives them good grip, but short life span. I don't think they will be a first choice for an expo vehicle.

[ashooter]

Midlife,

I have been mulling this same decision over for weeks and done as much research as I know how and have come to a few conclusions -

In the U.S., the two most common tires that will fit an 80 with no lift are 265/75's and 285/75's. 255's are cool, but not easy to find in case you need to buy a replacement somewhere outside a major city.

Because 255's are an oddball size, there are a lot fewer choices in a truly "all-purpose" tire that is TOUGH, will handle well on pavement, and will not leave you stranded in the boonies. The BFG M/T's look GREAT as an "expedition" tire, but they probably generally suck on pavement, especially if wet or icy/snowy. Toyo M-55's are probably the best thing out there, but you're gonna pay for 'em. Everything else in the 255/85 size is either too soft to resist punctures when driving through greasewood etc, has a reputation for really bad chunking/chipping in rocks, has a reputation of being very hard to balance, wears out too fast, or is more of a commercial truck tire and not really meant for off-pavement driving at all.

I really WISH there was a "perfect" 255 for "expedition" type use because that is the best description of the type of driving I'll do with them, but the best tires for this type of use are not available in that size... except MAYBE the Toyo M-55, but I'm too much of a cheapskate to pay $1500 for a set of tires. The best tires for me would probably be Toyo Open Country M/T's in 265/75/16... assuming I never need or want to buy another one while out in the hinterlands someplace. The second best (much as I hate to admit it) would be BF Goodrich All Terrain T/A KO's in the same size. Next best (next easiest to find) would be either of the above in 285/75 R16.

Just so you know my frame of reference, I plan to drive roughly half my mileage on pavement (75% of which is 70 mph hwy), the other half will be roughly 90% rough dirt/rock roads and 10% through the brush and rocks with nothing remotely resembling a road. Short of a hard-core rock-climber, I can't imagine a much rouogher life for a tire. In my area, about half the ranchers etc drive whatever's cheap so they can just throw them away when they get torn up, and the other half drive BFG's.

If anybody reading this thinks I'm wrong about any of the above, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. I'd really LIKE to find out I'm wrong, so I could pick a "perfect" 255 simply because I think the truck will look better with that size... I can't imagine the extra 0.5" of ground clearance will make any practical difference.

After saying all that, I still might very well end up with a set of 255 BFG muds.

[MidLife]

Hey,

Thanks for the responses everybody.

I know, or have heard that the BFGs MT KM2s are coming out in 16 inch sizes in the near future. You can probobly count on 255s being dead last if at all.

Maybe I should just get the BFGs A/Ts and be done with it. They sure look good. Anyway, the Toyos look like they just might be the last tire I'll ever need if I can find them in an 8 ply (salesman told me they were discontinued in 8 ply.).

[MidLife]

HKS,

What size tire spacers are you using with your truck? I think it looks good that way. By the way, where did you get them?

I like the way your truck looks

[joshoisasleep]

All I'm sayin is they're called All Terrain for a reason. Think you might drive over All sorts of Terrain? All Terrains! I mean it's not like just one of those old names that stuck, they still make them for all terrain...

[MidLife]

Josh, Not only that most all-terrains are quieter, last (wear) longer, are less expensive, and probobly help maintain a more fuel efficient vehicle.....and more sand friendly...I think.

The BFGs look very attractive on a truck and come in every size imaginable.

[MidLife]

Now for the dark side of all-terrains... More likely to get a flat in adverse conditions.

[MidLife]

Can anybody inform me where I can get wheel spacers so when I buy my 255/85/16s I can keep a wider stance... Any recomendations?

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by MidLife

Now for the dark side of all-terrains... More likely to get a flat in adverse conditions.

Compared with a mud terrain? I guess MT's do have those thick lugs all over them. Makes sense.

Still, one thing I've heard time and again from experienced adventurers. I don't know if some will disagree, but I've always been told by guys that they just keep their tires at 80 psi (I assume they had tires rated for that pressure), and no lower, and they almost never, or never got a flat.
I practice this at the 50psi rating of my AT's, and they don't have so much as a mild leak. They have plenty of tread, but they're old and worn looking... I avoid sharp rocks and such when I can, but these babies have been through some serious **** in their life with me alone (they came with my 81 bj60 donor truck).

I'm pretty sure they're BFG's. And yeah, they can handle the mud when necessary. I've driven almost as much thick deep mud in the last few days on washed-out local highways as I did in highschool playing in mudpits... they've done great.

[wesintl]

I believe i'm going with the 255/85/16 truxus

[hks3sgte]

Originally Posted by MidLife

HKS,

What size tire spacers are you using with your truck? I think it looks good that way. By the way, where did you get them?

I like the way your truck looks

Thanks for the comments.

As far as spacers, I don't believe in them, hence I don't run them. Proper wheel size is key.

[Texas bj-42]

I went with this tire after wearing out my 8.25R16 Michelin XZLs. After a lot of sulking because I have not been able to replace the Michelin's, I decided to go with the BFG M/T in 255/85R16.

I use my little diesel BJ-42 like a tractor on the ranch (uprooting small trees on the fence lines, dragging whatever needs it, etc) but I also drive it to work 83 miles a day (round trip).

I am completely sold on the BFGs. They are quiet (relative), wear very well on-road and dig well off-road.

Justin Wehring

[fernandol]

I love the 255/85/16 BFG mud terrains I had them in my Nissan Patrol when I lived in Spain and used them in snow and lots of fairly high speed road driving +/- 100mph is pretty common in Spain, they ware evenly and are not very loud.
I am running them on my 4runner now and still love them. Plus you can get them fairly cheap at tire rack.

[sandcruiser]

I'd be curious to hear more opinions on flats in MT's vs. AT's....

Every flat I've gotten in an MT has been the result of a thorn (or nail, or screw) that catches the tire between lugs, where there isn't much rubber

I would think that ATs would reduce that chance as the void space is smaller

but I don't have much experience to back that up as I've only been driven a few months w/ ATs, and not heavily loaded, and not much serious offroad

[Bogo]

I deal with thorns all the time. My experience is they go into any tire regardless of lug pattern. Best to have a good set of steel belts. Thorns don't go through them as easily. For patching, anything in the center 7/8ths of the treads can be patched via a rope type plug from the outside while anywhere else requires dismounting and an interior patch.