Expedition vehicle: 80 vs. 100

[dclee]

Originally Posted by -Spike-

Perhaps the 100 glides like a Mercedes, with a bump-less ride, but I doubt it. Marginally better, probably. I don't find the 80 ride to be harsh at all, in fact it rides better than most cars I've driven, let alone trucks.

-Spike

From the front seat, it does indeed ride like a Mercedes. Actually, more like a big Lincoln Continental. From the second and third rows, not so much...

[FirstToy]

you know the saying "denial ain't just a river in africa"... IFS rules on road, just like SFA rules in the rocks. It's physics, geometry and unsprung weight.

[Beetleman]

This is going to sound like cheap psychology. The fact that you've posed your question here in the 80 Tech forum instead of the 100 Tech forum means that you're proabably leaning more to an 80. You could have read up on threads in the 100 forum about how great the 100 is as a daily driver, and how smaller size but not IFS vs SA is the main reason for the 80's off road capability. Some neophyte actually wrote this and probably believes it. If you think that solid axles (rear full floaters) and selectable front and rear lockers makes no difference in real offroading, then you should definitely go with the 100. Bottom line is what you value more in a truck: better creature comforts or better off-road ability.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by BHMCruiser

Well, maybe. Though I agree that the 100 is a far more comfortable street vehicle, my "worn-out" 80 with 33's and a 2.5" OME lift on it handles much, much better than my sister's stock 2004 100. No question. I also prefer to drive the 80 around town. However, on long trips, the 100 might be the most comfortable vehicle I've ever been in. It doesn't help that I've got cloth seats and the bucket is worn out from over 12 years of me climbing my fat ass in and out of it.

I think the 80 is a great vehicle and personally prefer it. There is, however, little doubt that the 100 is more refined, more comfortable, and, if you have the side curtain airbags, safer. The down side of that refinement is that the 100 is more difficult to modify (in terms of money), more limited in the modifications that you can make (Shotts may beg to differ), and there's more stuff to break (nav system/touch screen). I also doubt that, as a rule, the V8 will prove as reliable as the I-6, but there will certainly be exceptions. Also, the 80 is getting older, and you'll really have to look to find a suitable vehicle, whereas you can just pluck a relatively low-mileage 100 from just about any dealership or used car lot. Both are very capable vehicles. I can personally vouch for the durability of the 80. I have had it since brand new and have beaten the crap out of it. I have not done any major repairs. It has been my daily driver the whole time, and has been thoroughly reliable. My maintenance costs, prorated over the entire life of the vehicle, have been stunningly low. Gas mileage sucks, but a Ford Escape Hybrid isn't going to drive through a river or climb a decent grade.

If you are looking for a DD, your best bet is probably the 100.

Did somebody say my name?

I think the vehicles are just as EZ to modify for "expo" travel with the exception of 4.88 gears if the expo rig will be really loaded.

I'd not even consider a 98-99 at any price.

For "rock crawling" the 80 options make it more buildable depending on desire.

As for engine longevity? The V8 in the 100 has aready proved it to be more relaible than the 6. No head gasket issues, early failures and it's much better on oil comsumption. Both my 80's (at the 115K mark) use up more oil than the 100. Every few tank fulls I'm down oil. The 100 uses none (105K) in between oil changes...some at 7K intervals. The engine is over-worked on the 80 and under-worked more on the 100. There's several 100's out there already over 200K and trouble-free.

I know this....in a vehicle for a long time? I'd not take my 80's ever. Once you travel in the 100 you'll be spoiled. Me spoiled.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by Beetleman

Bottom line is what you value more in a truck: better creature comforts or better off-road ability.

His topic isn't extreme off-roading. It's moderate and expo-style roading.

You sound like a "wheeler" like myself so your comments are noted and I agree.

For this guy's needs...the 100 is improved in almost every way over the FZJ80. Where he will travel the 100 will go every bit as easily as an 80. So why not enjoy all the improvements it offers?

[DirtyHarry]

Originally Posted by tech_dog

I think the biggest advantage the 80 has in hard core offroading is mental. You can sink the thing in a river, rip up some sand, and push it to the brink of rolling, and your downside is still less than $10K or so (assuming you live).

The newer 100's are just too nice to kill, unless you're a Saudi shiek or something.

It is more than mental. A solid front axle, narrower width, and front and rear lockers are more than mental.

FWIW I don't like torsion bar IFS. My girlfriend used to perfer to drive our OME suspension 80 versus her stock Nissan Frontier over rough rutted roads. If the 100 series had coilovers it would be nice, but who uses torsion bars on their luxury SUV?

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by DirtyHarry

It is more than mental. A solid front axle, narrower width, and front and rear lockers are more than mental.

FWIW I don't like torsion bar IFS. My girlfriend used to perfer to drive our OME suspension 80 versus her stock Nissan Frontier over rough rutted roads. If the 100 series had coilovers it would be nice, but who uses torsion bars on their luxury SUV?

Come on Harry. Don't compare a coil 80 to a T-Bar Frontier with the notion the comparo holds true against a 100. The 100 is no Frontier.

[DirtyHarry]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

Come on Harry. Don't compare a coil 80 to a T-Bar Frontier with the notion the comparo holds true against a 100. The 100 is no Frontier.

Agreed. I just don't understand why the entry level 4Runner I just bought and the Tacoma have coilovers though and the 100 series has torsion bars. Even GM and Dodge have ditched torsion bars and they still use pushrods so it isn't like they are cutting edge! I really want a 100 series to be honest (GF wants another 80 but after seeing spressomon's 100 is being swayed) but the torsion bars are the biggest thing keeping me from pulling the trigger.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by DirtyHarry

Agreed. I just don't understand why the entry level 4Runner I just bought and the Tacoma have coilovers though and the 100 series has torsion bars. Even GM and Dodge have ditched torsion bars and they still use pushrods so it isn't like they are cutting edge! I really want a 100 series to be honest (GF wants another 80 but after seeing spressomon's 100 is being swayed) but the torsion bars are the biggest thing keeping me from pulling the trigger.

The T-bars still offer a smoother and more luxurious ride....so they say.

Me? I don't care. I just like the ride.

[BHMCruiser]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

Did somebody say my name?

I think the vehicles are just as EZ to modify for "expo" travel with the exception of 4.88 gears if the expo rig will be really loaded.

I'd not even consider a 98-99 at any price.

For "rock crawling" the 80 options make it more buildable depending on desire.

As for engine longevity? The V8 in the 100 has aready proved it to be more relaible than the 6. No head gasket issues, early failures and it's much better on oil comsumption. Both my 80's (at the 115K mark) use up more oil than the 100. Every few tank fulls I'm down oil. The 100 uses none (105K) in between oil changes...some at 7K intervals. The engine is over-worked on the 80 and under-worked more on the 100. There's several 100's out there already over 200K and trouble-free.

I know this....in a vehicle for a long time? I'd not take my 80's ever. Once you travel in the 100 you'll be spoiled. Me spoiled.

Shotts,
There's so much poop in your response I don't know where to begin. But let's just look at engine durability, since that's the only (relatively) objective part of your post:

1. I'm not talking about your three cruisers. I'm talking about ALL of the cruisers, AS A GENERAL RULE. For instance, my engine has the original HG and burns very little oil (I won't even get into the fact that you have a LEAK for crying out loud. Remember your posts about the leak that you have? How your son's LC has a leak? Seriously, what does that have to do with whether the LC "uses" oil or not? I will stipulate that an engine with a leaky seal with "use" more oil than one without.), but I'm not going to say that "80's have no HG problems, and they don't use any oil." I also have a dent on my rear quarter panel; I'm not going to say "80's have dents on their rear quarter panels," or "80's dent very easily."
2. There are a ton of I-6's well in excess of 200k still trouble-free. I would not be surprised if the number of trouble-free 200k+ 80's on the road outnumbered trouble-free 200k+ 100's by 10 or 20 to 1. However, that doesn't mean that 100's won't be trouble-free, just that I doubt the reliability will be as high.
3. HG issue: How many people on the board actually have a HG problem? Anyway, the numbers have been crunched, and it's not an epidemic.
4. Your saying that the 100's V8 is more reliable is totally absurd, if for no other reason than it is impossible to know at this point.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by BHMCruiser

Shotts,
There's so much poop in your response I don't know where to begin. But let's just look at engine durability, since that's the only (relatively) objective part of your post:

1. I'm not talking about your three cruisers. I'm talking about ALL of the cruisers, AS A GENERAL RULE. For instance, my engine has the original HG and burns very little oil (I won't even get into the fact that you have a LEAK for crying out loud. Remember your posts about the leak that you have? How your son's LC has a leak? Seriously, what does that have to do with whether the LC "uses" oil or not? I will stipulate that an engine with a leaky seal with "use" more oil than one without.), but I'm not going to say that "80's have no HG problems, and they don't use any oil." I also have a dent on my rear quarter panel; I'm not going to say "80's have dents on their rear quarter panels," or "80's dent very easily."
2. There are a ton of I-6's well in excess of 200k still trouble-free. I would not be surprised if the number of trouble-free 200k+ 80's on the road outnumbered trouble-free 200k+ 100's by 10 or 20 to 1. However, that doesn't mean that 100's won't be trouble-free, just that I doubt the reliability will be as high.
3. HG issue: How many people on the board actually have a HG problem? Anyway, the numbers have been crunched, and it's not an epidemic.
4. Your saying that the 100's V8 is more reliable is totally absurd, if for no other reason than it is impossible to know at this point.

My son's '93 isn't leaking oil. It's T-case fluid.
My '97 isn't leaking oil either. The rear mail is sweating.
They both burn oil. The 100 burn zero.

My "engine life longevity" comments are based on what people have posted in the 100 forum. Additionally you can find added reliability facts from mags. The 100-series is the most trouble-free Cruiser overall to date. As yes....there's many more aged 80's than 100's. DUHHHH the 80's are much older.

They're both awesome trucks. Face it. No argument. It's just nice to not worry about head gaskets, overheating, creaking sun roofs, and the other stuff they eliminated on the later series. As for starter contacts? Who cares. $200 and it's fixed, plus you have an idea it's acting up.

[BHMCruiser]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

My son's '93 isn't leaking oil. It's T-case fluid.
My '97 isn't leaking oil either. The rear mail is sweating.
They both burn oil. The 100 burn zero.

My "engine life longevity" comments are based on what people have posted in the 100 forum. Additionally you can find added reliability facts from mags. The 100-series is the most trouble-free Cruiser overall to date. As yes....there's many more aged 80's than 100's. DUHHHH the 80's are much older.

They're both awesome trucks. Face it. No argument. It's just nice to not worry about head gaskets, overheating, creaking sun roofs, and the other stuff they eliminated on the later series. As for starter contacts? Who cares. $200 and it's fixed, plus you have an idea it's acting up.

My mistake. I misread your posts about the leaks. I thought you had a leaky engine seal. I suck, and I apologize.

The 100 is an awesome machine, no doubt. I don't know where you got your info that the 100 is "the most trouble-free Cruiser overall to date," but you're sort of making my point about the overall durability of the two engines: we don't know yet, because the 100-series is too new. What people post in the 100-forum, IMO, don't really reflect the vast majority of owners. How many people regularly post there? I think that being on IH8MUD gives one (me included) a skewed perspective of the merits and problems of our trucks.

As for overheating, we'll see if there's a problem when more 100's get up there in age.

I guess I got lucky when I bought the one 80 that didn't overheat, leak, or have a creaky sunroof.

I also think the starter contacts are a non-issue.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by BHMCruiser

I suck, and I apologize.

As for overheating, we'll see if there's a problem when more 100's get up there in age.

I guess I got lucky when I bought the one 80 that didn't overheat, leak, or have a creaky sunroof.

1. No you don't. I do.

2. I don't think we'll see overheating on 100's unless something fails. My '93 runs fine. The '97 sucks. With so many folks modifying their 95-97s I guess I'll need to do that to my '97 too.

[BHMCruiser]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

1. No you don't. I do.

2. I don't think we'll see overheating on 100's unless something fails. My '93 runs fine. The '97 sucks. With so many folks modifying their 95-97s I guess I'll need to do that to my '97 too.

As for sentence two, that's the whole issue: when does something fail?

[kbellve]

My 1996 LX450 supposed to burn oil? It hasn't yet at 145K miles and I do 5K Mobil 1 oil changes...I never need to add oil between oil changes.

Just remember, the 80 has multiple engines...

[-Spike-]

Neither of mine burn any noticeable oil, one at 90 and the other at 190K...

-Spike

[Romer]

My 97 doesn't burn oil or have any leaks.

Don't know about the sunroof issue your taling about

I never had a loose wheel bearing like you did on your 100 either

[Mikey]

Ford trucks 150-550 have coil springs to. T-bars are a bandaid and a short cut for fitting cv's, steering components, and some type of spring for suspension all in one IFS package. Everyone has used them and they have all gone away from them. Saying that a 100 is a nice highway/DD/dirt road veh.

And just one shot at shotts you forgot to mention that your 100 is worth $75,000.

[IDAHOTEMUD]

Hi,

Thought I'd chime in with some real world comparisons. I own a '91 w/350, '94 w/ 160k miles, and we just picked up a '00 FZJ100 for the wife. Picked up the 100 with 73k miles for $19.4k.

Two days after buying it we did 1,900 mile round trip from Boise to Denver and back for Thanksgiving. The 100 is plush and rides comparitively very quietly and smoothly; VERY ENJOYABLE AND COMFORTABLE on a long road trip. The 4.7L V8 is not incredibly torquey down low but REALLY scoots on a downshift at highway speeds. We towed an approx. 800lb load (military trailer & luggage) the entire distance. In OD the V8 power is noticeably better than 4.5L but not as much as you may think. The V8 was fairly quick to downshift on upgrades (remember my load), but when it did the power was impressive. It felt like I could accelerate up any grade in 3rd gear. And I think we pretty much did; and that was taking I-70 back (we took I-80 on the way to Denver).

Mechanically, it appears the 100 series may be prone to cracked exhaust manifolds (very expensive to have fixed) and quite difficult for a do-it-yourselfer. Other draw backs, replacing a key is a huge pain and possibly expensive (going through that right now). 2" lift costs about 1k and easily clears 33's; bigger then 33's don't seem to be the norm on the 100, not sure why (my '91 is riding on 35" MTR's).

It's the perfect cruiser for the wife and in 4 or 5 years when it has 160k then I'll take it over and do a build-up. So no plans to off-road it in the near future; it's just too damn pretty and the paint is so nice. Plus the wife wants nothing to do with that aggraviting rear tire you have to swing away when getting in the back.

2000 was the first year a rear locker was not available, instead a computerized traction control system is stock. I'm very curious how the system will preform; all indications are it works very well (100 series forum). I'm all for solid axles but if traction control can get power to the wheel(s) on the ground then IFS becomes much less of an issue.

Did I mention this thing rides NICE!

Mark
Boise, ID

[desmocruiser]

Originally Posted by cruiserdan

IFS sucks...........





If somebody GAVE me a 100 I'd sell it and buy something else........

I think this is fully supported by the fact that where expedition driving is DAILY driving, Toyota does NOT equip the 100 series with IFS. I think we really got very lucky when Toyota exported the 80 series in a near identical mechanical set-up as the rest of the world. With the 100 series we got a more refined vehicle for the road with IFS and gadgets everywhere, if I am not mistaken, Africa, Australia etc still offers the solid axle and very plain model availability.

I think the 100 series is a fine vehicle, I just prefer the 80's suspensionn set up and quite honestly the looks.

[Ting]

Originally Posted by desmocruiser

I think the 100 series is a fine vehicle, I just prefer the 80's suspensionn set up and quite honestly the looks.

X2 - Agree -
I like the look of 80 better than 100 maybe because of the flare... I actually kind of like newer LX 470 front.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by IDAHOTEMUD

2000 was the first year a rear locker was not available, instead a computerized traction control system is stock. I'm very curious how the system will preform; all indications are it works very well (100 series forum). I'm all for solid axles but if traction control can get power to the wheel(s) on the ground then IFS becomes much less of an issue.

As you've read, the system works very well. Overall, better than a no-TRAC/rear-locker setup (98-99). 2000+ also safer.

Like an 80, you can lock a 100. You can't TRAC an 80 though. If you expo travel into snow and ice you'll be thrilled with the 2000+ 100-series. It'll do things my 80's only dream of in those slippery conditions (due to TRAC and VSC).

How lucky we are to choose from 2 such incredible Series Cruisers.

[aim]

Rear sliding windows? We have dogs and live in a low-crime area. A definite plus for the 80. On or off road, DD or expedition, spring, summer or fall. Besides, changing the starter contacts in the middle of nowhere should be easier on the 80.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by aim