Even more 2 meter radio tricks

[Cruiserdrew]

A small group of us did an expedition overland from Lake Powell to Moab, and along the way had an interesting radio experience I thought I would share. Most of us have gotten a Ham radio license and put the radios to the test on this trip. The rest of the group is busy studying for the test!

There was a point prior to leaving the pavement that a group of us were climbing what I believe were the Henry mountains. We were using the 2 meter radios on low power to talk among ourselves in simplex mode. Out of the blue, one of our group members who was meeting us later heard our transmissions and was then able to talk to us on the same frequency. He was in Mexican Hat which was over 100 miles away-104 to be exact as the crow flies.

Mind you, we had a clear signal and could talk as if he was part of our convoy. I did boost power to make sure our transmissions went out clearly. Very impressive radio performance that simply is not available with CB. I should note that the 5/8 mounted antennas could receive the distant signals, but the "Rubber duck" antennas on the handhelds could not

To make it even more interesting, our friend in Mexican Hat, could talk to DesertDude who was 75 miles away from him, who we could not yet contact. It made arranging our meeting place and time very easy, in an area where cell coverage simply does not exist.

Later as we were making the run from Hanksville to our start at Natural Bridges, we could talk to the entire group 45-50 miles out over mixed hilly/canyon terrain. Very impressive stuff.

One other very cool point: Down in the wilds of Beef Basin, our group split up to explore two different canyon systems. We were in Ruin Canyon, and the rest of the group was in Calf Canyon, two canyons over. We could still talk to each other on simplex, despite both being on the canyon floors. The group in Calf Canyon was able to guide us into the campsite they found in a side canyon, and reunite the group. For that Canyon bottom to canyon bottom transmission, it took the full 65 watt output to have clear communication.

I guess I'm posting this for those of you who are considering Ham radio. It is so superior to CB, and not that much more expensive. Those in our little group who are not yet licensed were so impressed, that I think several new Hams will come from that group. On the way home from Cruise Moab, the only time we turned on the CB was to listen to the truckers. Otherswise, we used the 2 meter radios in simplex mode.

KI6CXS

[Biscuit]

You probably got a bit of "atmospheric reflection". I've done this before when driving through St. Louis and was able to listen to the AM broadcast of the Avalanche-Blues playoff game on one of Denver's AM stations.

May have to get a 2m as I haven't used my Ham license since getting it.

KC0NRJ

[Rubiconcruiser]

ADVANTAGE Ham Radio..KE6HEH LA Area

[Bob_Garrett]

100 miles (or more) isn't uncommon in mountainous areas, if one or both radios are significantly higher than the average terrain. Another possiblity is atmospheric ducting which can allow communication distances of several hundred miles, even at low power. 2m signals can also reflect in rocky canyons, allowing good communication even with no line of sight. 70cm (440MHz) works well (sometimes better) in those situations as well.

Bob
N5UOU

[Kofoed]

That's cool. Tropospheric ducting is what those other guys are thinking. I think it is just good ole elevation and looooow noise floor. Isn't there a repeater up on the Henry's (there was about 5 years ago anyway)

[alvarorb]

This image will give you an idea of where we were:



Regards

Alvaro

[Bob_Garrett]

Very possible that you had a line-of-sight path between those two points. Mexican Hat is approx. 4200ft elev and from the map it looks like you were at 7000ft and there doesn't apppear to be any higher terrain between the two locations.

[alvarorb]

Bob,

We were at around 10.000' when this happened. You're right most likely it was line of sight that did it.

Regards

Alvaro

[Cruiserdrew]

I think we likely had line of sight as well, still quite impressive over that distance without the benifit of a repeater or even high power. It did show the strength of a good radio and a good antenna system. On high power both directions, the voice signals were perfectly clear.

Perhaps more impressive was the link up a few hours later. We were in big canyon country with hills, rocks and high ridges in the way, yet we could still talk to our friends 50 miles away.

I should also say that on the drive home, the 2m simplex was flawless on I-80 with easy truck to truck communication on low power, easily 10 miles and more.

I am hoping everyone we travel with will go to 2m, when that happens, the CB will stay at home.

[FJ40_owner]

I operate 2 meter simplex nearly all the time. I have a gain antenna and can regularly talk a hundred plus miles on simplex. I guess I do not understand why anyone would want to hang out on the CB when the band is full of Hetrodynes and atmospheric noise. Not to mention unreliable and hard to understand, rubber duck come back good buddy.

Maybe us local guys should schedule a QSO and give it a try. I just moved from Cameron Park to Lotus so I am now shaded to the West but would be willing to give 2m simplex a try if anyone is willing.

JB
N6KML
147.420 Simplex
146.805/r PL123 -600

[Doug_S]

How are you guys mounting your antennas? I have a tri-bander and don't want to put a hole in the roof.

[alvarorb]

Doug,

All I have is a simple Wilson 5/8 2m mag mount antenna.
It takes 10 seconds to install.

Regards

Alvaro

[Cruiserdrew]

Originally Posted by Doug_S

How are you guys mounting your antennas? I have a tri-bander and don't want to put a hole in the roof.

A lip mount on the rear hatch:http://www.rfparts.com/diamond/k400c.html

This set up works very well. I only have a single band radio so I can use an antenna optimized for 2 meter: http://www.cometantenna.com/products...ID=4&childID=3

Look at the SBB-25

[PKP80]

Considering the fact that I HATE my cb and have been fussing with it ever since I bought it dropping my money into an endless pit (and it's still not done yet), I'm entertaining the idea of HAM radio.

Questions:
So I would need a new Radio instead of by CB, could I use my CB Antenna and mount?
Would I be able to reuse any of my CB parts?
How would I get licensed?
Any pics of your HAM setups?

Thanks.

[lowenbrau]

Anybody care to educate me on the rig du jour? Any radio setting the standard for value? I'd really like to set up a 2m in my Cruiser so Behemoth60 has someone to talk to.

Bruce
VE6 TLC

[NorCalSam]

Originally Posted by PKP80

Considering the fact that I HATE my cb and have been fussing with it ever since I bought it dropping my money into an endless pit (and it's still not done yet), I'm entertaining the idea of HAM radio.

Questions:
So I would need a new Radio instead of by CB, could I use my CB Antenna and mount?
Would I be able to reuse any of my CB parts?
How would I get licensed?
Any pics of your HAM setups?

Thanks.

No you need a 2meter radio and the right antenna.
It is only a matter of time untill I get one but I will not be getting rid of my CB.

Because I have the best CB you can get and it works good most of the time for what it is.
It will increase the odds of me being able to reach someone if needed.
And most 4x4 owners on a trail or caravan do not have 2 meter.

Sam

[PKP80]

Originally Posted by NorCalSam

No you need a 2meter radio and the right antenna.
It is only a matter of time untill I get one but I will not be getting rid of my CB.

Because I have the best CB you can get and it works good most of the time for what it is.
It will increase the odds of me being able to reach someone if needed.
And most 4x4 owners on a trail or caravan do not have 2 meter.

Sam

I'm in the same boat on that note, CB will stay and just add a HAM eventually, although the idea of being able to speak with someone 100miles away is crazy cool. How do you get licensed? $$$

Sam

[Cruiserdrew]

Originally Posted by lowenbrau

Anybody care to educate me on the rig du jour? Any radio setting the standard for value? I'd really like to set up a 2m in my Cruiser so Behemoth60 has someone to talk to.

Bruce
VE6 TLC

A number of us in the Norcal Wagon group all have Yaesu FT2800-M radios. It's vibration tough, mil spec and less than $200. In my opinion, it's an excellent radio. Icom, Kenwood, and Alinco all make equivalents. One advantage of the Yaesu 2800 is the massive cooling fins/heat sink which obviates the need for a cooling fan. It does get warm when you broadcast on high power. It's a single band basic radio, but very nice. If you just touch the knobs and feel the weight, you know immediately it's a real radio, it isn't CB.

I think we all have a different antenna-this is not a place to skimp. The Wilson magnet mount is an excellent antenna with good gain, and it's cheap and easy to set up. I went to a lip mount to clean up the wiring, and the antenna has even more gain/performance. I really like it, but in heavy brush, I have to fold it down to keep from damaging it. That's kind of a pain.

I am going to get a Comet SBB-1 for trail use. The performance is not as good, but it's flexy. See here:http://www.cometantenna.com/products...ID=4&childID=4
and scroll down.

There are many options in the Ham radio world. If you want simple and inexpensive, a single band, 2 meter unit is hard to beat. If you want bells and whistles and HF, then you are going to part with some $$ in a big way(especially for the antenna system). I think my next radio will be this one:
http://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd...5&isArchived=0
so I can do a cross band repeat on the trail. Once I get my General License, I am going to consider truck mounted HF for emergency communications. That's a big step, though and may have to wait.

We keep saying it's cheap, but it is much more expensive than CB. A good radio will be near $200, and a lip mount and good antenna is another $100. For that, though, you get great trail/simplex communication, and access to repeaters in the 2m band everywhere. My CB was $11, and the antenna was another $30, so real radio is more, but then you get much, much more. I have just scratched the surface of Ham radio, but I can tell it will fundamentally change the way I think about communication, both off the trail and on.

KI6CXS

[alvarorb]

Originally Posted by PKP80

How do you get licensed? $$$

Sam

PKP80,

Basically, you have to study for an exam. You can get dates for exams in your area by visiting the ARRL website.

I studied using an online guide called Ham Test Online. The test is $14 and I was done in 15 minutes.

Regards

Alvaro

[Cruiserdrew]

Originally Posted by PKP80

I'm in the same boat on that note, CB will stay and just add a HAM eventually, although the idea of being able to speak with someone 100miles away is crazy cool. How do you get licensed? $$$

Sam

Sam-the license is the least of your concerns. It costs $14 for 10 years. The study book is more than that. Go to the ARRL website, and they have a search function for exam sites and times. Try this:http://www.arrl.org/arrlvec/examsearch.phtml
It will give you an idea of how many tests are offered in your area.

[alvarorb]

PKP80,

If you like to study from a book, I recommend "Technicial Class 2003-2007" By Gordon West. I like this book better than the ARRL book. For one the answers to the questions are right below the questions.

This is a direct link to the book on Amazon

Regards

Alvaro

[ParadiseCruiser]

Sam and others...

The Technician test is comprised of 35 questions drawn from a pool of (200 or so) standardized, publically available questions. The current exam / question pool will expire next month (30 Jun 06).

This means that any current, or older hard-copy exam study guide (Gorden West is generally a good one...) would be based on the old, rather than the new questions that will go into effect on 1 Jul 06. I would recommend avoiding the older, printed material unless you plan to take your exam during the next six weeks!

Both the old and new question pools can be found on the ARRL site.

Good luck!

Ron - K6RG

[Kofoed]

Originally Posted by NorCalSam

It will increase the odds of me being able to reach someone if needed.
And most 4x4 owners on a trail or caravan do not have 2 meter.

Sam

You are right, most people in a single group do not have an amateur radio.

But, I have found that there are a lot more people running ham gear on streetable, back country rigs (as opposed to buggy/hard core rigs) than you would think. Most every trip somebody spies the 2m antenna on my ride and the conversation begins. I get way, way more contacts on the 2m than CB in the desert.

Plus, when your range is a magnitude of order greater with the 2m, somebody is nearly always there to hear you on simplex or a repeater

[NorCalSam]

My CB was $11, and the antenna was another $30, so real radio is more, but then you get much, much more.


KI6CXS

$11 bucks? Know wonder you cant wait to get rid of that thing.

Mine was like $150 bucks. I talk all the time to people that also have good CBs 15-17 miles away. I know that can't compare to 2meter but you get want you pay for. You can also see one of the reasons why the CB will stay in eh. $$$$$.

I am very happy that Little Boss got the better CB some of you guys have "short stick syndrome".

Truth is I have aways planned on getting a long range radio for emergencies. The + is that most of the NorCal guys have them.

These guys don't mess around. I remember seeing a cruiser on mud with a 2 meter and I think it was Marty that said something about it. I posted a thread for ideas on antenna placment radio brands etc. And by the time I looked up everyone had ham.

Sam

[Cruiserdrew]

Originally Posted by NorCalSam