Well I'm considering it as an alternative/addition to a straight-up GPS. I have an old Garmin V (with USA Topo & Mapsouce)and a not quite so old Lowrance 500c (has some topo installed). Both have data connections. I have used the Garmin with a samll PC laptop running Garmin Topo software under Mapsource... it's pretty good for basic bread-crumb tracks use.
What are our opinions of ON vs Mapsource with Topo?
Advantages/disadvantages?
__________________
Mark [ mark@woytovich.com ] Metro NY
Founding member, Gotham City Land Cruisers
85FJ60 ~ 78ishFJ40 ~ M-416 ~ Trillium 4500
Just as another option (oziexplorer) - not sure how it compares to ON. Anyhow, I'll give you my take on using a laptop or PDA with a navigation program that allows you to use your own data - versus commercial handheld GPS units that require vendor specific maps.
I've used Oziexplorer for a long time (> 10 years). I've also been running OziexplorerCE (on a PDA) for a good 5 years or so.
Ozi on a laptop works great, in oz it is basically the only way to go (Ozi) because of the lack of decent topo maps on handheld GPS units. With topo maps of the entire Oz on the laptop and Ozi running I had full topo capability with all the tracklogs, routes, waypoints etc etc that one could wish for. The only issue is the large laptop an being offroad with dust & bumps etc etc. The laptops never complained, but they are just large and cumbersome regardless of how they are mounted.
Then I started using OziCE on the PDA, all the same capabilities (in a shrunk down format) and compatible with Ozi on the laptop. So, with the PDA mounted on a nice flexarm in good position for the driver to view I now had it all. Full topo capability (and also in the US with the free topo downloads) and the ability to transfer data easily to/from the laptop version as needed. I run a bluetooth GPS mouse and that means just one small USB cable to 'power' the mouse long term (internal battery runs about 6 - 8 hours) and one small power cable for the PDA. No huge mess of wires, no large lumbering laptop and full navigation capability.
There is also a program on the internet that allow you to 'harvest' google earth satellite/aerial imagery data at whatever resolution you need and then convert that into Ozi friendly files. This allows topo and google earth stuff to be available while navigating - very handy to "see" what the lay of the land is versus a straight topo.
Anyhow, if ON has similar capabilities then the combo of your own topo's, google earth satellite/aerial imagery and a laptop/PDA are hard to beat. I've used the PDA and bluetooth GPS standalone (their own batteries) to go on hikes and bike rides - for longer ones I have made some plug/cable converters to use my 14.4V li-ion bike light battery pack to power the PDA and Bluetooth GPS. This would give me days of continuous runtime.
I also run tomtom on my PDA - so I can use the same setup (BT GPS mouse etc) to have full street level routing - I have US and Oz maps loaded in addition to OziCE and the topo maps and some google earth data. 2 gig SD cards for my PDA are so cheap these days.
cheers,
george.
__________________
where ever you go, there you are....
'97 S/C White CE, locked^3, sliders,arb,kaymar, m12000,dual batteries, LEDs, etc..... ki6ibx http://www.george4wd.taskled.com
Topo USA (Delorme) running on a laptop plus a puck type gps device (I use a USGlobalsat BU-353) works great. Lots of routing capability, can store all sorts of way points and tracks. Total investment:
TopoUSA Western States $50
Bu-353 $35
Also comes with $200 "worth" of additional downloadable maps and imagery. Also not advertized but present, is that Topo contains all the street atlas data, so you don't need additional street navigation software.
Ozi looks great to me too, and when George sets up a class on use, I'm signing up for it.
__________________
Andrew
1971 FJ-40 Rubicon tested, 2F powered, SM420, some mods
1976 FJ40 Rusting slowly in the back yard
1984 FJ-60 H41, Toybox, 4.11, SOA, twin sticks and more
1989 FJ-62 125k-Stock, daily driver
1997 FZJ-80 Driveway queen, with door dent
I just made a quick demo video of Overland Navigator. Hopefully you guys find it helpful. Please let us know if you have any questions or want to suggest features.
I've also uploaded a few photos to my album of some of our customer installs. They illustrate some of the various hardware options available. The new 7-10" UMPC tablets and Netbook computers running WindowsXP are ideal ($350-$1800). They are big enough to really show the maps, but small enough to not interfere with passenger comfort.
I personally use a sunlight visible semi-ruggedized UMPC on a RAM mount in my truck and love it (attached pictures).
__________________
Craig Miller
Last edited by spatialminds; 03-31-09 at 01:53 PM.
Well I'm considering it as an alternative/addition to a straight-up GPS. . .
What are our opinions of ON vs Mapsource with Topo?
Advantages/disadvantages?
Let me start by presenting what I see as the main advantage of Overland Navigator: Simplicity.
It is important to understand this, because this is what makes the program unique when compared to many other mapping software programs. An analogy, although maybe not the best one, would be to consider knives. On one hand, you have the multi-tool with every kind of implement imaginable for every conceivable task you may encounter. On the opposite end of the spectrum, you have something like the Bushcraft knife. With a single blade, they are renowned the world over for their timeless simplicity and strength, able to perform a multitude of tasks in the hand of a skilled owner. Both have advantages and disadvantages over the other, so it's simply a matter of choosing what suits you best. In the case of the knives, the multi-tool can be heavy and cumbersome. Unless you memorize exactly where each tool is and how to open and close it with speed and accuracy, you'll likely waste time fumbling with it looking for what you want, and then fiddling with the stiff hinge mechanism to open and close it unless it's used frequently and is well broken-in. If under pressure for one reason or another, this exercise in patience can be trying.
Overland Navigator is very much "plug and play". There is no steep learning curve and no deep collection of toolbars, menus, and input prompts to deal with. You just plug your GPS in (or connect via BT), turn on the program, and go. The maps are all there, seamlessly. And they are smooth and fast. Unless you are actively using the few toolbar buttons, they disappear from the screen, maximizing the map display. There isn't much file info to keep track of. You either turn tracking on or off, and it automatically saves a running track file from each day using the date as the file designator. There's really no input from you necessary. (Like "Save as: choose a filename, choose where to save, Do you wish to overwrite?" etc etc). So when you get home from your trip, you can transfer the files or archive them and they're all there; one for each day of the trip.
So, comparing Overland Navigator to Mapsource Topo:
The ON uses seamless USGS topo maps of varying scales depending on the zoom level. These are image files (raster graphics) so they are just like a jpeg in a way; they don't contain any embedded information like POI's and names of land features that appear when you hover over with a mouse or pointer. It's like having a digital copy of a full library of USGS paper maps in your vehicle with you. There is also color satellite imagery, but it is high-level and used more for location reference (it doesn't have names, boundaries, etc on it). Don't confuse this with DOQQ aerial imagery (like when you zoom in Google and see someone's car parked in the driveway). I have put in a feature request for DOQQ imagery, but it is a very involved process to implement this in the seamless map format (and memory intensive) so may take some time. My guess is that ON will have that eventually. It is something that is definitely not available with Mapsource Topo. Mapsource is one of the aforementioned programs with a host of command menus and buttons so it has more data manipulation capabilities, but requires more interaction (that comes with a significant learning curve for a new user).
Mapsource Topo uses vector graphics that while they mimic the USGS topos, they are basically Garmin's own digital copy version built entirely of vector data. Unlike an image file, vector files contain information associated with the display. This is what allows Mapsource to present POI data and other custom functions that allow the user to interact with the map (routing, POI information, names of land features when hovered over, etc).
In summary, the Overland Navigator was designed by a guy who is just like you and me, he has a 4WD and uses it to explore and live out of. So it is coming from someone who saw a need for a product that "just works" and lets you focus more on driving the vehicle and enjoying the experiences of the adventure than continually messing with menu inputs and having to type things on a keyboard. It has specifically been designed as very UMPC/tablet friendly.
Here are photos of ON setup and running in my truck, in both laptop configuration and tablet configuration (it's a convertible notebook):
Disclaimer: I'm not being paid by Spatial Minds for this, I'm just a beta tester. I did receive the product free of charge in return for my time testing and providing feedback during beta phase testing. I just think it's a cool product that nicely fills a niche specifically for the overlander and explorer that wants to spend less time with complex GPS software but enjoy the benefits of a beautiful on-screen map showing your position, tracks, and waypoints.
Let me start by presenting what I see as the main advantage of Overland Navigator: Simplicity.
It is important to understand this, because this is what makes the program unique when compared to many other mapping software programs. An analogy, although maybe not the best one, would be to consider knives. On one hand, you have the multi-tool with every kind of implement imaginable for every conceivable task you may encounter. On the opposite end of the spectrum, you have something like the Bushcraft knife. With a single blade, they are renowned the world over for their timeless simplicity and strength, able to perform a multitude of tasks in the hand of a skilled owner. Both have advantages and disadvantages over the other, so it's simply a matter of choosing what suits you best. In the case of the knives, the multi-tool can be heavy and cumbersome. Unless you memorize exactly where each tool is and how to open and close it with speed and accuracy, you'll likely waste time fumbling with it looking for what you want, and then fiddling with the stiff hinge mechanism to open and close it unless it's used frequently and is well broken-in. If under pressure for one reason or another, this exercise in patience can be trying.
Overland Navigator is very much "plug and play". There is no steep learning curve and no deep collection of toolbars, menus, and input prompts to deal with. You just plug your GPS in (or connect via BT), turn on the program, and go. The maps are all there, seamlessly. And they are smooth and fast. Unless you are actively using the few toolbar buttons, they disappear from the screen, maximizing the map display. There isn't much file info to keep track of. You either turn tracking on or off, and it automatically saves a running track file from each day using the date as the file designator. There's really no input from you necessary. (Like "Save as: choose a filename, choose where to save, Do you wish to overwrite?" etc etc). So when you get home from your trip, you can transfer the files or archive them and they're all there; one for each day of the trip.
So, comparing Overland Navigator to Mapsource Topo:
The ON uses seamless USGS topo maps of varying scales depending on the zoom level. These are image files (raster graphics) so they are just like a jpeg in a way; they don't contain any embedded information like POI's and names of land features that appear when you hover over with a mouse or pointer. It's like having a digital copy of a full library of USGS paper maps in your vehicle with you. There is also color satellite imagery, but it is high-level and used more for location reference (it doesn't have names, boundaries, etc on it). Don't confuse this with DOQQ aerial imagery (like when you zoom in Google and see someone's car parked in the driveway). I have put in a feature request for DOQQ imagery, but it is a very involved process to implement this in the seamless map format (and memory intensive) so may take some time. My guess is that ON will have that eventually. It is something that is definitely not available with Mapsource Topo. Mapsource is one of the aforementioned programs with a host of command menus and buttons so it has more data manipulation capabilities, but requires more interaction (that comes with a significant learning curve for a new user).
Mapsource Topo uses vector graphics that while they mimic the USGS topos, they are basically Garmin's own digital copy version built entirely of vector data. Unlike an image file, vector files contain information associated with the display. This is what allows Mapsource to present POI data and other custom functions that allow the user to interact with the map (routing, POI information, names of land features when hovered over, etc).
In summary, the Overland Navigator was designed by a guy who is just like you and me, he has a 4WD and uses it to explore and live out of. So it is coming from someone who saw a need for a product that "just works" and lets you focus more on driving the vehicle and enjoying the experiences of the adventure than continually messing with menu inputs and having to type things on a keyboard. It has specifically been designed as very UMPC/tablet friendly.
Here are photos of ON setup and running in my truck, in both laptop configuration and tablet configuration (it's a convertible notebook):
what is the black antenna on the left side of the computer?
Disclaimer: I'm not being paid by Spatial Minds for this, I'm just a beta tester. I did receive the product free of charge in return for my time testing and providing feedback during beta phase testing. I just think it's a cool product that nicely fills a niche specifically for the overlander and explorer that wants to spend less time with complex GPS software but enjoy the benefits of a beautiful on-screen map showing your position, tracks, and waypoints.
i picked up the delorme earthmate software today for my laptop.
i am getting to know it but so far i like it alot.
While it will never be officially supported, I'm going to do some testing sometime in the next couple of weeks with Parallels, Fusion, and WINE.
While I'm bummed that it won't ever be supported, that's good news.
I appreciate the video, BTW. It really makes it easy for me to see it's simple interface (I like it). As I mentioned in another thread, if this ever gets able to do APRS stuff as well, I'm totally sold.
We've added Overland Navigator regional Map-packs covering the rest of the Western US to our webstore (http://spatialminds.com). Regional Map-packs include 1:250k, 1:100k, and 1:24k USGS Topos for a region.
We now have support for the following regional Map-packs available:
Washington
Oregon
California North
California Central
California South
Nevada
Arizona
Utah
Montana North
Montana South
Wyoming
Colorado
New Mexico
North Dakota
South Dakota
Nebraska
Kansas
Oklahoma
Texas
Mid-Atlantic Region (District of Columbia, Virginia, West Virginia, Maryland, and Delaware).
Satellite Imagery Packs and US Wide Packs (1:250/1:100k only) packs are also available.
There are a few threads around the web where people have posted about their experience with Overland Navigator. Some of the threads start as an announcement but there is customer feedback later on.
We are looking at a couple of different options for Canadian maps and will begin working on them once the US maps are complete (14 small East Coast states left).
Basic APRS support via NMEA0183 input/output will be included in the next version. I'll support both $WPL and $PKWDWPL sentences. The latter includes the APRS symbol, speed, bearing, etc of each heard station which will make for a more informative display.
In addition, I'm adding an NMEA0183 pass-through option. This will allow you to connect the GPS to the computer, and then pass the GPS info on to the TNC/Radio.
Dude that is the inside of a Land Rover....... haha caught!
Quote:
Originally Posted by spatialminds
I just made a quick demo video of Overland Navigator. Hopefully you guys find it helpful. Please let us know if you have any questions or want to suggest features.
I've also uploaded a few photos to my album of some of our customer installs. They illustrate some of the various hardware options available. The new 7-10" UMPC tablets and Netbook computers running WindowsXP are ideal ($350-$1800). They are big enough to really show the maps, but small enough to not interfere with passenger comfort.
I personally use a sunlight visible semi-ruggedized UMPC on a RAM mount in my truck and love it (attached pictures).
__________________
2004 Land Cruiser UZJ100 "The Warpig" (cue Black Sabbath)
100 Owners Guild-
Expedition wheelers at their finest - wheeling with style...
The not so secret, secret society of 100 owners....
Will it work with an Intel Mac running... *cough* Windows?
I have a Mac iBook and got sick of looking for stuff for it, so I broke down and got a HP-Mini..... I hate it. The dang thing freezes, the curser doesn't respond properly when I 'click' something on the screen. What a POS. I only bought it because I wanted to run PGP encryption software and couldn't find a free download for MAC.
So I might actually put MAP software on it.... will it work properly? OMG the world will end if a MicroCrap product actually performs!
__________________
2004 Land Cruiser UZJ100 "The Warpig" (cue Black Sabbath)
100 Owners Guild-
Expedition wheelers at their finest - wheeling with style...
The not so secret, secret society of 100 owners....
Dude that is the inside of a Land Rover....... haha caught!
LOL -- I'm not hiding it. There are more photos of the Land Rover on the testimonials page of my website. There are also several different Toyotas on that page.
In case it matters to anyone here, I've owned several Toyotas in the past and my wife drives one now. I also run the Northwest Overland Society website which is open to all makes/models. I'm considering a 70 series diesel for my next truck (haven't decided for sure yet). I like Toyotas... though I also like Land Rovers, Jeeps, Mercedes G-Wagens, Mitsubishi Pajeros, Pinzgauers, and a bunch of other makes/models.
I have a Mac iBook and got sick of looking for stuff for it, so I broke down and got a HP-Mini..... I hate it. The dang thing freezes, the curser doesn't respond properly when I 'click' something on the screen. What a POS. I only bought it because I wanted to run PGP encryption software and couldn't find a free download for MAC.
So I might actually put MAP software on it.... will it work properly? OMG the world will end if a Micro**** product actually performs!
I'm not familiar with the specific hardware you are describing. I have many customers running netbooks that are very happy with their setup. In general you'll want a 1.2Ghz processor or higher and 1gb of RAM. 4-5gb of free hard disk space per map-pack region.
We've just released map-packs for NY/NJ, PA, NC/SC, WI, and MI for sale through our webstore. Spatial Minds, LLC
The total list of map-packs that are available now includes:
Global - Satellite Imagery - Course scale only - This is not aerial photography
United States - 1:100k and 1:250k maps for the entire US. Does not include detailed 1:24k maps.
Detailed Map-packs: Include 1:250k, 1:100k, and detailed 1:24k USGS maps.
Alabama
Arizona
Arkansas
California Central
California North
California South
Colorado
Georgia
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Michigan
Mid Atlantic Region (DC, VA, WV, MD, DE)
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana North
Montana South
Nebraska
Nevada
New Mexico
New York & New Jersey
North & South Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Oregon
Pennsylvania
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas North
Texas South
Utah
Washington
Wisconsin
Wyoming
__________________
Craig Miller
Last edited by spatialminds; 10-04-09 at 11:37 AM.
So, from what I understand, here's the price breakdown:
$40 for the ON software and then $40 for each map. This could add up quick! Heck just for the California boys, you would be up to $160 ($40+$40+$40+$40+). Wow!! Alternative would be to buy the $100 U.S base map plus the $40 for ON software= $140.
Pretty close, except the US mapset doesn't include the 24k maps (1:100k and 1:250k only). The regional/state map-packs include 1:24k, 1:100k, and 1:250k maps.
I think if you compare Overland Navigator to other USGS 1:24k topo based products that you will find it competitively priced. For example, National Geographic Topo and Maptech Terrain Navigator Pro are each priced at $99.95/state vs our map-packs that range in price from $29.95-39.95.
I've split up all of the states into similarly sized chunks. So, the Mid-Atlantic Region contains several smaller states and California is broken into 3 regions. California maps are also at a higher resolution than other states which does up the price since I had to break it into 3 regions.
Edit: I just lowered the price of the CA map-packs to $34.95 ea.
__________________
Craig Miller
Last edited by spatialminds; 10-04-09 at 11:42 AM.
Would the National Geographic Topo maps work with ON? The reason I ask is I already have all 50 states of the NG Topo maps.
__________________
Eric V. TLCA 7328 ADIDALC LICENSED OVERLANDER
99 UZJ100 "Barnicle Edition" Vorfab front bumper and sliders, MHHS diff drop, ARB front locker, 4x4 labs rear bumper with custom designed swingouts, OME springs/shocks/torsion bars
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