Radios: off road races etc - 150+MHz. Need a license?

[e9999]

(deleted a previous thread that appears to have been misinterpreted... trying again.)


I'm told that some offroad events use frequencies around 150 MHz (just outside the 2m ham band) for truck communications.

For example I see that Score International apparently uses 151.625 for its main race operations radio frequency for the Baja 1000 and for the Las Vegas Primm 300. http://www.score-international.com/lasvegas/index.ihtml

Not planning on doing one of these races myself soon , but these frequencies in the 150 range are popular among many desert offroaders too, I'm told, and the radios are sold over the counter apparently. Wouldn't want to use one myself without a license if that's illegal, though. Does one need a license to use these frequencies?



added: seems like that particular frequency is in a "Business Radio Service" range per http://electronics.howstuffworks.com.../spectrum.html
but couldn't tell yet if it requires a license. A bunch of other freqs in that 150+ range are for MURS which does not require a license apparently.

[wngrog]

Most of these radios are rented or leased by the racers for the event only.

[Capt. Jim]

If you use one for off-roading, there may be no one at the other end to receive your distress call. You need to use freq's where someone will hear you when you call.

[CDN_Cruiser]

e:

In general, radio licencing works in two ways.

First, for things like Amateur Radio (also Aircraft, etc) there is operator proficiency testing which results in an operator licence. Depending on your proficiency, you gain access to more operating privileges (eg access to High Frequency bands). In this case, with an operator licence, you are legally allowed to use any 'type approved' equipment on the frequences where you have operating privileges. There is no need to get a licence for the radios. So, for example, an amateur radio operator can use any peice of equipment that can legally operate on 2M.

In many cases, there are commercial uses for radios where the commercial operators do not want the problem of licencing all the operators. Picture trying to lic all cab drivers so they could be cabbies. In this case, the FCC sets aside operating frequencies (spectrum) for commercial use that are still FM, etc and would have similar characteristics as 2M. However, the company stil has to have a lic to operate in that frequency to prevent a 'free for all'. So, cab companies, road work companies, utilities, logging companies, etc would all be assigned some spectrum to use within a relatively narrow range of frequenceis. Same situation for police, fire, marine, cellular, etc who all have dedicated frequencies set aside for them.

Again ,you could buy the radio, but you couldn't legally use it without a FCC licence (at least I believe this is the way the US operates). As other have pointed out, it could also be a lonely place, as there may be few other operators.

Then there are parts of the spectrum that are aside for public use - no operator or equipment lic required. CB and FRS are two examples. Free-for-all environment.

All of this is summarized in high-level 'band plans' (type in FCC, band plan to get a map) and then specifically allocated within the band plan.

Quite frankly, the best kept secret is Amateur Radio - we get access to huge swaths of the spectrum (VHF, UHF, HF) all mode (CW, voice, digital, data, AM, FM, SSB, etc) 'for free', get access to great equipment and have access to some other benefits eg in Canada, only emergency workers and amateur radio operators are allowed access to full digital scanners that allow us to monitor new digital radio systems operated by police depts, etc. Not sure how enforced it is, but it does provide special privileges.

Does that make sense?

Cheers, Hugh

[ParadiseCruiser]

Well stated, and accurate (for the U.S. as well). Thanks Hugh.

R -

[e9999]

yes, nice summary Hugh. thanks.

Interesting that the cab company or race organizer has to get a license but not the users. So I imagine a lot of the racers just get their own anyway and use it under the "sanctioned" frequency of the event. Apparently, they are also used a lot by individuals independently of events. Maybe not kosher, that, then.

yes, of course, it would likely be best to send an SOS on a regular ham frequency, unless you're surrounded by other wheelers using them as well.

It's interesting, though that there are MURS frequencies in the 150 range. Those should have all the tech advantages of the 2m but no license needed.

And again, for those who jumped all over me earlier, I do plan to get a ham license. Much better. But many folks who could not be bothered to get the license might gain from using VHF where legally possible. Not a bad thing.

[Capt. Jim]

Originally Posted by e9999

It's interesting, though that there are MURS frequencies in the 150 range. Those should have all the tech advantages of the 2m but no license needed.

There are no repeaters available nor are there people standing by to communicate with, as there are on the ham spectrum. If you want to reach out and touch someone on VHF, the 2M ham system is your best bet.

Now, go out and get that ham ticket. You'll be surprised how easy it is.

[tabraha]

Originally Posted by e9999

Interesting that the cab company or race organizer has to get a license but not the users. So I imagine a lot of the racers just get their own anyway and use it under the "sanctioned" frequency of the event. Apparently, they are also used a lot by individuals independently of events. Maybe not kosher, that, then.

Typically the racing series handles specs for communications, not the race teams. That is one way they monitor all of the racers and can communicate with any one team or all teams at the same time. The most popular outfit that handles much of the behind the scenes work for the different racing series is Racing Radios. They then sell and install for the teams as well. http://www.racingradios.com/ for your perusal.

[Cruiserdrew]

Originally Posted by e9999

And again, for those who jumped all over me earlier, I do plan to get a ham license. Much better. But many folks who could not be bothered to get the license might gain from using VHF where legally possible. Not a bad thing.

Since I was the one who "jumped" on you earlier, I still think you have some 'splainin' to do. Too bad you deleted your initial thread. More censorship! (Private joke-I couldn't resist)

How does it help anyone, especially an off-roader in trouble, to broadcast on a different part of the VHF band outside the Ham frequencies? Maybe you want to contact a local race team? That thought process makes no sense to me. Seriously, outside of the "band", no one is listening for a distress call from you.

The only people actually listening, are other Hams on the established amateur frequencies. That's why earlier I said you needed more background to ask the right questions (athough that's never stopped you before ). Once you have at least read through the material, you will understand that the action is in the established spectrum. So rather than looking for a way to undermine or "cheat" the system, you would be better off using the system where the infrastructure and proceedures are well established. And interestingly enough, other Hams out there listening are extremely happy to talk to you-it makes their day!

One thought is to buy and learn to use a 2 meter radio. Then, even if you are unlicensed, you could still use the radio in an emergency. I believe the law says an unlicensed person may broadcast where "lives or property" are in danger. The property part would give you pretty good leeway to use the radio if needed in almost any circumstance.

With that said, you could just read the book and take the test. That would serve 2 functions; 1) You could use the radio anytime you wanted, and 2) you would open a whole world of additional questions to post on ih8mud . But seriously, Eric, a smart guy like you would have exactly NO trouble with the test. After you read the book, the Tech test is laughably simple, and you'll wonder why you gave it a second thought. Now the General license is a different matter-I work on the study book a bit every night, and within 2 minutes I'm sound asleep.

[groucho]

Some well spoken truths here.

Try and look at it like this: The Ham bands are set aside for the use by people like us who do have a main interest in hobby and emergency communications. (BTW, that is part of one of the answers of the technician exam, so you already know some of the material.)

Also, keep in mind that if Hams do not continue to be strong and alive on all of the allocated bands, then the FCC may say that those bands can be taken from Hams and allotted to some other use. That is to say, if people keep trying to work outside the system and not with it, we may lose operating frequencies.

The intent of everyone's comments here seem to be to encourage interest in other IH8Mudders in Ham Radio as it does work and has worked for over a century. The benefits can be that one gains the technical knowledge to understand why antennas work, or how electricity works, or how a community of people all over the world seem to remove many cultural stereotypes to communicate with each other.

For all the time and effort you spent investigating the race radio stuff, you could have been through the technician book and licensed. It is that easy.

[alvarorb]

Eric,

http://hamtestonline.com has a sample of what the common questions are for the HAM test that you need to take to get a license.
I'd suggest you, (or anybody) that's interested in becoming a ham, take a look a it. There are two types of questions on the test. Tech questions (Electrical) and Procedure (law) questions. At the end they all make sense.

Last year, I studied for an hour a day for a week and past the test with only 1 wrong answer. Back then the pool of questions was 520, now I think is around 390.

I used this site and the Gordon book as a reference. You can't go wrong.

Regards

Alvaro

[stuckthrottle]

Not to beat a dead horse but I just wanted to chime in with a couple of observations.
First off, I just started reading and preparing to get my license, I will get it. Next, racers don't rent race radios. It is way cheaper to purchase them and permanently install them.
Unfortunately, most teams DO NOT have an FCC license, yet they all operate in "their own" freq. The race promoter usually has 1-3 freq's "reserved" for race operations, status checks, emergencies. As some of you might have seen on the film by Dana Brown, DUST TO GLORY, a man who goes by WEATHERMAN sets up a sort of human repeater atop the highest mountain tops in Baja California and relays messages that come through the frequency he's set up at.
I've always wondered about needing a license to operate a 'race radio' and such, but growing up and learning by example, I found out that you can get away with it with not having one. A bad example indeed, but hopefully I can teach newcomers to the sport (and old racers alike) the right way of doing things.

[cruiser_guy]

You may be interested to know that a month or so ago we were in ElGolfo with the 2m radios and we were able to CLEARLY hear other folks on the same frequency who were on the Baja over 80 miles away and this was all in simplex mode!

Like others have said though, since we cannot communicate at say 150mHz (receive only in my case since ham is 144 - 148mHz) there would be no point in us monitoring it for emergency traffic. If we were traveling while a race was in progress then we might monitor it for our own personal safety.

It is apparently possible to modify a standard 2m radio to transmit outside of the 2m band but that would be highly illegal and something that the FCC would frown upon.

[Hulk]

You can take the actual tests here:
http://www.qrz.com/p/testing.pl

I just took my Technician license test last weekend. I passed 34/35. I had read most of the book and had taken all the tests online. I studied about a week.

Ham is way cool, and I am excited to join the group of enthusiasts!

-------

The race radio stuff is interesting, but I think it would be useful mainly if you were a racing fan. However, I recognize where you're going with this thought... I know a group of wheelers that use marine radios in their rigs. They don't care that no one monitors these bands out in the middle of the desert or mountains -- they just want to be able to talk with each other on radios that are better than CBs.

However, I still think Ham is better:

1. In case of an emergency, you could contact someone who could send help.

2. With a license, Ham is legal. I'm pretty certain the marine radios in the middle of the desert are not.