Low sulphur deisel not allowed

[fe sus]

thanks for the assurence that my trusty old 3B will burn this new ULSD stuff if I ever need to... but I was fairly certain that if old diesels can burn hot grease they can burn new fancy diesel. i'm a bio-diesel guy myself. Years ago I worked on many a military airbase and one of the annoying task that I had to perform some nights was to check the quality of the JP-8 in our plane. To do this I'd usually jump in a little diesel tug with a chevy small block and drive it out to the plane. After using this little bottle-on-a pole thing to test each fuel tank I'd just dump it straight into the tug's tank. Never had any problems with it.

[brownbear]

I run my tug(aircraft) at work on Jet a-1. I add lube conditioner to it. Can't tell the difference. Its an inline pump too.

[fe sus]

Not suggesting that Jet a-1 and ULSD are the same... I wouldn't put ULSD in an aircraft (unless I [i]really[i] needed to) but I would put Jet A-1 into just about any diesel car/truck, perhaps adding a lube to condition the fuel.

[dieselcruiserhead]

good article about ULSD that just came out...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20060605/ts_csm/adiesel

[brownbear]

Originally Posted by M John Galt

Are you suggesting that jet a-1 and ULS diesel are the same?
Are you in Western Canada?

Nope.

Yes.

Jet A-1 I have been told is essentially arctic diesel.

ULS diesel could be run in a Turbine engine. They essentially burn anything, including gasoline. But have restrictions to how long you can run alternate fuels. As the gas doesn't have the lubrication needed for the fuel control or fuel pumps. As well it may leave residue on the turbines. But in a pinch, no problem.

[brownbear]

Taken from the yahoo article.

"Once the new diesel rule is fully implemented in 2030, it is expected to yield a 90 percent cut in pollution from the nation's 13 million diesel trucks and buses. That would mean more than 8,000 premature deaths averted each year and about $70 billion annually in health benefits as a result of cleaner air, the EPA estimates."

What a crock, 2030?? They never even mention what rule they are referring too? but why so far in the future.....

[dieselcruiserhead]

answer to question about delay in implementation: expensive lobbying by automotive manufacturers, 90% of slowness under the pretenses of "jobs" and "hurt the american economy." All I can say is at least it happened, finally...

[brownbear]

Originally Posted by M John Galt

I spoke today with our bulk dealer and he estimates that the ULSD we're now getting will be 2 or 3 cents more per litre. I consider that an insignificant increase for the additional benefits.

In Northern Canada, Arctic motor diesel [aka #1 winter diesel], Kerosene, Arctic stove oil, and Jet fuel are all the same product. The difference is in the specific additives for the motor and turbine fuels and the taxes levied.

Interesting too is a colour difference. And I smell a difference. Not sure what extra chemicals go into Jet fuel... but it is stinkier.

Jet fuel here is about $1.30 a liter so taxed a bit different. Air Canada would not pay retail prices tho like we do.

[sawcutmill]

here is a cross over from another forum I spend time on-the woodenboat forum has a discussion on this as well, and some say that the new diesel is bad for the seals, rubber, and injectors! here is the post from [url]www.woodenboat.com

[sawcutmill]

http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/vbulle...ad.php?t=51162

[sawcutmill]

It was not a credibilty issue i was presenting, just another veiw point, if it is not appreciated, so be it.I thought it might be of interest, only.There will always be someone who has more personal experience than another, as it is all valid though. Dont discount the woodenboat community, they have a knowledge base that is comparable to here. That's all, thanks.

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by brownbear

They said from tests done they found that in line injection pumps did not have any unusual problems or wear. But the rotory pumps do not fair as well with low lubricity.

Anyone know if the rotary pump 3B can be retrofitted with the inline pump? I've got a spare inline pump that needs a rebuild at a buddies place in Canada. The 3B in the FJ45LV restoration has a rotary pump. All the others have the inline pump.

[Rusty]

...

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by monton

I was being facetious about the tar...

Yeah, I know...

[fzj80kidpen]

From what I have learned so far the only difference between the new diesels (2007-ULSD) is the ash traps and new catalsyts. So burning non ULSD in a ULSD engine would kill the catalyst within a few weeks. But burning ULSD in an older regular diesel will have not adverse impact unless it is a very old diesel engine. Remember they cut the sulfur level back in the 90's.

[Lantec]

Originally Posted by M John Galt

Not retarded at all, it's a useful attempt to clean up the foul air in cities.

We've had low sulfur diesel in Canada for a few years, additives to restore lubricity can range from $1.06 per litre for canola oil to more than 10x that price for the fancy snake oil, which is mostly biodiesel.

Canola oil has the additional benefit of reducing emissions; it makes diesel burn better.

ATF is specifically formulated not to burn, it's not a very good fuel additive.

Canola Oil can go into my truck and make it burn better? Dayumm. I'm going to hit up my local supermarket

[archaeology_student]

Originally Posted by M John Galt

Not retarded at all, it's a useful attempt to clean up the foul air in cities.

We've had low sulfur diesel in Canada for a few years, additives to restore lubricity can range from $1.06 per litre for canola oil to more than 10x that price for the fancy snake oil, which is mostly biodiesel.

Canola oil has the additional benefit of reducing emissions; it makes diesel burn better.

ATF is specifically formulated not to burn, it's not a very good fuel additive.

Just out of curiousity, about how much CanOil to how much diesel?

[cruiser_guy]

I'm of the opinion that it is unethical to use foodstuffs as a motor fuel.

Currently in Mexico there are demonstrations over the price of tortillas, allegedly because of the amount of corn used in the production of ethanol has driven up the price of corn. Apparently tortillas have increased as much as 50-100% in the past year.

There is bio-diesel that is available the is not produced from foodstuffs or produced from waste vegitable oil and I have no problems with that.

[cruiser_guy]

John, it makes some sense if the price had gone down. Lower prices and unable to produce for those prices etc. etc. In this case folks are able to sell the grain for more so the farmers should be getting more and everyone is happy except for the consumer.

The problem I have is that if alternatives are available, and in this case there are, we should be exploring the alternatives and leaving the foodstuffs for food. If you travel extensively in the developing world as we do you may have a different perspective.

I may be wrong but I was of the impression that tortillas in Mexico and Central America are made of yellow corn. Remember these are folks living at the edge financially. If yellow corn is cheaper, they'll use it!

[canucksafari]

Hi guys. I lived in Mexico for two years, mife wife is Mexican and I have traveled throughout Mexico and Latin America a fair bit.

Toritillas in Mexico have been traditionally made with white corn. Yellow corn is usually only found as a specialty corn to be consumed fresh (by the wealthy) and usually only in the cities.

The main problem with Mexico's corn is not biofuel but genetically modified corn coming in from the US as human and animal food. This corn has genetically contaminated the seed stock which has been selectively breed for temp, soil and elevation for centuries. Places like Mexico - Brazil for one - have lands which can produce large quantatives of sugar cane for cleaner and renewable biofuels. The problem in places like Mexico is not that the land is being used for biofuels or that there isn't enough land. The problem is with land distrobution. Large sections of land are held in the hands of the old wealthy elites who do not work it or care if their fellow citizen's starve.

Countries like Mexico could go a long way at reducing the horrible air contamination in the cities by using biodiesel mixes. That said, for Mexico their best source of mass produced oils would be from Palm or Corn, given the climate. Palm plantatcion can be pretty nasty things. However, it might stimulate the agricultural sector, which cheap subsidized US agricultural products have really hurt. Converting WVO to Bio is probably their best place to start. However they tend to use their vegy and animal fat oils to cook for a lot longer than we do. Even then, it is often sold and mixed in with animal feed to get them fatter. Also, it might take quite a bit of work to get it clean enough to run. But hey, Mexicans are smart. They definitely know how to reuse and fix stuff.

[archaeology_student]

Thank you for the info

I didn't realize that Canola oil has <1.5% FFA (Free Fatty Acid) meaning that it does not need to be processed anymore! Just mix it in and voila!

Thanks for the great tip!

[acer]

good info on bio..i have been running B99 i got from a place in Iowa in my BJ, runs better than ever.
Galt, do you run bio in the cold temps? I am actually from Whitehorse, and my family ran ford diesels throughout the winters . It would just take some preparation, good filters, good block and fuel system heater etc. Probably alot like what they do in Iceland .

[acer]

thanks for the ratios, -30 sounds good...did you modify the fuel lines?

[Squash]

For Western Canada:

1. Buy your fuel from Federated Coop's they really do have the best diesel in North America. send me you e-mail for details.
2. Cetane Number >46, offering:

- More complete combustion/lowering exhaust emissions.
- Reduction in white smoke (cold starts).
- Lower engine noise.
- Better fuel economy.
- Reduced warm-up time, misfire and improved low temperature starting.

3. Premium Additive Package offering:

- Clean Injectors/reduced maintenance.
- Reduced exhaust emissions.
- Black smoke reduction.
- Improved fuel economy.
- Better water shedding properties, better corrosion performance and better fuel stability.
2. Maintain your engines see Link page 6-http://www.deep.org/reports/mechanicsman.pdf

[spelant]

This might be a dumb question but nobody has ever accused me of being bright. This lubricity issue has me concerned; can I run DELO 15W40 as a lubricity additive to the fuel? Back in 1993 I had the injection system in my BJ40 (B motor) rebuilt by the guys in Cranbrook, B.C. They added a sticker to the injection pump that said something to the effect that low sulphur diesel is harmful to the pump. Under some good intentioned advice, and not thinking it was detrimental, I have recently begun adding 2 quarts of DELO 15W40 at every fill up to compensate for the loss of lubricity and I have to say that my motor has never sounded better or run smoother - and I have owned the rig since 1989. My question is: is this not good for the motor and should I switch to Canola oil as a diesel fuel lubricant?

[diesel junkie]

Running the old fuel on the 07 diesels probably wont do much harm but the particulate traps will have to do burn cycles more often, maybe not a good thing
(massive temps required).
Some vehicles have been withdrawn as stated due to having to meet tougher emission standards.
Good thing no more cats but i see many have a throttle body on the intake
The big three have plans for more diesels to meet their future ave consumtion targets

[diesel junkie]

Cant wait to play with the new LC diesel

[Mountain Goat]

Originally Posted by Exiled

This new diesel is throwing a lot of stuff off kilter...for example, VW will not have any TDI's for the '07 model year. In fact, they're no longer bringing in any more TDIs. I'd considered replacing my current TDI Jetta with a newer one, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen until '08 at least.

So it looks like for new diesel passenger vehicles, it's only Daimler-Chrysler.

I talked with a dealer when considering an '07 TDI. He said many foreign auto manufacturers are not going to import diesels into the US until ULSD is in full effect. The reason is that it is not practical for them to design engines to meet US emissions regs when we still have crappy fuel. Europe for example already has ULSD.

Anyway VW sells 5 million cars a year worldwide. The US market is chump change to them. It's hardly worth the effort to ship a few thousand diesel engines to South American assembly plants when they can sell all they can make in Europe.

[DirtyLittleSecret]

Originally Posted by monton

Yeah, but what's the deal with this current deisel actually being able to