starter

waaz · 02-05-06, 11:08 PM

HELLO
Not all the time but sometimes when I start my 3b the starter stays enguaged, and i have to shut it off and play with the starter to make it quit.
I know there is a clutch and pull in mechanism,
Any ideas what it might be?
Would like to rebuild starter my self, need part #'
thanks
waaz

Stone · 02-06-06, 06:37 AM

Starter solenoid...don't know the part number.

Whistler74 · 02-06-06, 09:55 AM

I had my starter rebuilt in the summer by Western Starter in Richmond after it showed the same symptoms. Cost was $280. Major PITA getting it out, and far worse getting it back in, but works great now.

The contacts inside the solenoid were almost completely burned off, so I think it had been going on for a while before I got the truck. The lead from the battery to the starter terminal had been arcing to the fender liner, so I think that may have contributed somehow to the problem (voltage / current drop?)

lowenbrau · 02-06-06, 11:24 AM

Just look up 'electric motor repair' in your local yellow pages and call and see if they have starter rebuild parts for Denso starters. (like Dodge Cummins have)

This Cummins kit will work but the contacts are slightly different on a Cruiser. Best to yank yours apart and take the parts in. It should be less than $30 for all the parts.

1.5 banana max

Tapage · 02-06-06, 11:59 AM

sometimes ( in my case ) just a lots of dirt and mud inside my starter .. some clean and contact cleaner inside sole the problem, and you can do yourself.

waaz · 02-07-06, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowenbrau

Just look up 'electric motor repair' in your local yellow pages and call and see if they have starter rebuild parts for Denso starters. (like Dodge Cummins have)

This Cummins kit will work but the contacts are slightly different on a Cruiser. Best to yank yours apart and take the parts in. It should be less than $30 for all the parts.

1.5 banana max

Hello
thank you for the input, havent pulled the starter yet, but when I do I want to rebuild the whole thing, does this starter rebuild kit from cummins come with brushes and bearings????
Thank you all

Jan-78FJ40 · 02-07-06, 12:41 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/Toyota-Lift-Truc...QQcmdZViewItem

Diescipel · 03-15-06, 10:35 PM

OK I've just developed the following symtoms:

Cold start this morning, persistent audible whine (bendix stayed engaged right?) that eventually went away.

Semi-cold start this evening, persistent whine. Starter continued to crank engine even when I shut the ignition (EDIC) off, but starter stopped completely when I pulled the keys fully out of the ignition. Next start was clean. Drove home no probs.

Based on past experience with such things, this is the solenoid on the starter not disengaging/braking contact once the engine starts and runs. Right?

Question: does the above kit that Jan references on eBay most likely solve these symptoms? I ask because in the full logic of the start sequence, it seems like there could be a relay that is not stopping the starter after I let off on the "START" position in the ignition.

(Sorry, my FSM is in storage...)

Thanks,
B

Jan-78FJ40 · 03-16-06, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diescipel

OK I've just developed the following symtoms:

Cold start this morning, persistent audible whine (bendix stayed engaged right?) that eventually went away.

Semi-cold start this evening, persistent whine. Starter continued to crank engine even when I shut the ignition (EDIC) off, but starter stopped completely when I pulled the keys fully out of the ignition. Next start was clean. Drove home no probs.

Based on past experience with such things, this is the solenoid on the starter not disengaging/braking contact once the engine starts and runs. Right?

Question: does the above kit that Jan references on eBay most likely solve these symptoms? I ask because in the full logic of the start sequence, it seems like there could be a relay that is not stopping the starter after I let off on the "START" position in the ignition.

(Sorry, my FSM is in storage...)

Thanks,
B

Hi, I don't know if the kit would fix your problem, but it is possible. If the starter relay was bad, the starter would most likely not crank at all.
sorry for the limited information. The FS, under the trouble shooting sections just suggests to 'repair starter' if it does not disengage.
j

nickw · 03-16-06, 12:28 PM

Sounds like bad/sticky solenoid contacts.
On some startes the copper builds up over time.
While on some other starters it burns away.

Take it in and get the whole start rebuilt (might as well while its out).
Or do it yourself if you can.
Much cheaper and easier to do it while it still works.
Probably under $100 to pay an auto electric shop.
Better to get if done now before it leaves you stranded somewhere or worse.

A little story for you:
My girlfriend was driving my 81 series. She started it and did not notice the starter not disengaging. Drove for about 10 minutes. By the time she got to where she was going there was smoke pouring from under the hood. The starter stayed engaged due to the contacts on the solenoid sticking. The starter ended up burning inside. The fire department showed up, but all was good and cooling down by the time they arrived. I was lucky, it could of caught the truck on fire.

So my advise is: take your starter out today and take it down to be rebuilt.
It does not take long, or cost to much. You could get it back the same day.
If someone else drives your truck and does not notice it not disengaging it could get ugly.

Cheers,
Nick

lowenbrau · 03-16-06, 12:57 PM

Nick is right. There are two symptoms of worn contacts. A starter that won't go and a starter that won't stop. 90% of starter problems can be fixed with a new set of contacts. If you have a rig with 300,000km you should be doing starter contacts, alternator brushes, knuckle bearings and clutch slave and master. All of these thigs are very likely to be original and will probably fail before 400,000km.

Diescipel · 03-16-06, 05:43 PM

Thanks guys, that's what I figured though didn't want to leave out the relay as a possibility too. I've had this happen before and seen it happen on my bro in law's car. How fast can you pop the hood and disconnect the battery? lol I'm glad it disengaged last night!

I remember your post Nick that was scary.

Glad this happened now as I was about to go on a very long trip out to the desert...

Cheers,
B

Diescipel · 03-25-06, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-78FJ40

http://cgi.ebay.com/Toyota-Lift-Truc...QQcmdZViewItem

Just to let folks know these parts are better (as far as I can tell) that what was in the starter originally. We'll see how they last, but the contacts at least have way more surface area than what I pulled out, and the plunger thing felt heavier... FWIW. Starter works great again.

B

R2HKS · 03-27-06, 11:01 AM

I have the opposite problem on my 3B. I get the click click click, won't start. Strange thing is when my mate jumped started me with his 80, it fired 1st go and also once my battery gets to be about 6months+ old is when I have probs. With a new battery it seems fine.

I guess the starter though has never been rebuilt and with 345k on the clock and it stopped working just before I bought it, it could have up to 500k on it. I guess a rebuild is needed. Contacts must be stuffed.

How hard is it to rebuild. I've never done a starter rebuild myself before. I don't have any engine manuals. Is there any info out there on how to do it?

Diescipel · 03-27-06, 08:35 PM

I didn't do the full rebuild, just the contacts and plunger thingy, but it's not rocket science. Go for it.

If I were you I would to a general check of your eletrical system. Maybe your alt. also needs brushes as your symptoms seem to indicate weak current. My guess is your contacts are also worn in the starter and you don't have enough current to close the connection and engage the starter. Again, go for the rebuild.

B

R2HKS · 03-28-06, 02:20 PM

Yeah I think its a combo of probs. Being doing some reading on here and people have put in a relay for the ignition I might do that mod as well as replace the plunger and contacts.

The alternator seems fine because I have checked it for voltage output at the battery and I'm getting 14.7 volts, plus it was recon'ed before I bought it and also has mega battery cables, like nothing you have ever seen before and that includes 2 separate earths. (previous owners brother was an electrician) Having said that maybe where the earth connections contact needs to be cleaned up or maybe actually on the starter itself. The problem happens when the car is up to temp too and not when cold, which sort of leads me to the solenoid. I have tried the bash the starter with a hammer and whilst it takes a few goes it usually works. Also somethimes I can get it started by quickly cylcing the ignition on and off, or by bumping it in gear.

wesintl · 07-28-06, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-78FJ40

http://cgi.ebay.com/Toyota-Lift-Truc...QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks Jan! I just bought 1.

This search tool really works well.

This past weekend wheelin I shut the crusier down and it wouldn't start backup.

To keep the train rolling I popped 3'rd gear.

The rest of the time I tried to make sure I was on a hill to pop the clutch. There were times I wasn't so pop the hood and a few taps on the starter with a screwdriver and she turned over just fine.

I need to do the alt too, does someone has the #'s to replace the brushes.

wesintl · 07-31-06, 07:37 PM

Good God MAN. I still can't get a wench that has enough torque to get the top nut to pull the starter.

wesintl · 08-07-06, 08:54 AM

Got it out and got it back in. That is possibly one of the hardest starters to remove from the bay. I replaced the contacts and took apart the motor to check out the brushes. They could use replacing in the future but I wanted it back on the road. When I put the starter back in I left the motor off and then put the motor on once the body was on the bell housing. I'll do the brushes on the starter and the alt at the same time.

Jan-78FJ40 · 08-07-06, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wesintl

Got it out and got it back in. That is possibly one of the hardest starters to remove from the bay. I replaced the contacts and took apart the motor to check out the brushes. They could use replacing in the future but I wanted it back on the road. When I put the starter back in I left the motor off and then put the motor on once the body was on the bell housing. I'll do the brushes on the starter and the alt at the same time.

Yes, it is a pain to get that thing out. much easier in a 60...

cheers,
Jan

Brunei Prado · 08-08-06, 06:39 PM

I also had some problems which turned out to be the starter. It was not on my cruiser but on my other Toyota (crown).
In the beginning it was eating batteries and having problems starting in the morning. After replacing the ground cables and some batteries, one day I noticed some sparks comming from underneath the engine. It turned out to be the cable running from the battery to the starter (as Whistler allready mentioned). The rubber isolator on the plus connection on the starter was gone and the plus cable made contact with the housing of the starter (nice hole).
I think this was going on for a long time and was the main cause of my electrical problems.
I replaced the starter and all problems gone.
So to take out the starter would be the best thing to do, so you can have a good check.

Regards,
BruneiPrado