2H into '88 FJ62, advice

[gavin]

Hey there,
I am trying to convert my '88 FJ62 with a 3F-E to diesel as reasonably as possible. From reading other threads, I believe that the 2H will match with the A440 tranny that is already in the truck. Is that correct? I believe I read it in reference to a 2F to 2H conversion, is it the same for a 3F to 2H? How about for a 12HT?

Are the engine mounts the same? is this a "drop-in" conversion?

How about making the 12V to 24V translation? Can the 2H be run on 12V? Seems I read this somewhere, maybe it was a different spec. engine?. Any advice would be appreciated.

What are the mandatory peripherals that I will need? I am trying to get a 2H from a truck that is getting a 12HT, which leaves me wondering how many of the peripherals the seller would be parting with??? ie what is a mandatory replacement for the 12HT and what is reusable in the 12HT ?

Thanks for any and all advice!
Gavin

[roscoFJ73]

Hi Gav The 2H radiator has outlets that are opposite to the F radiatior .The tranny should bolt up no problems but 2H automatics are not common in ,so tracking down a radiator with a built in oil cooler might not be easy except in Japan
Probably easier to get a radiator from a manual 2H and fit an aftermarket cooler
All diesel landcruisers inc the 2H are 12v in Australia. I think they start on 24 v but run on 12V There is a fair bit of commonality between the 2H and 12HT as they share the same block.
A lot of "peripherals" such as power steering pump and fuel filter (I think)are bolted to the H engines so if they are on the 12HT then they will hopefully come your way with the 2H

Engine mounts will be ok,exhaust ok. The old fuel line to the expansion chamber will be your new fuel tank breather
Try the search function,there have been sEveral discusssions recently on 2H swaps.

Should be the easiest engine swap you can do on a 60/62

[gavin]

Rosco-
Thanks for the info... why not use the existing 3F radiator? and an aftermarket oil cooler? I am dealing with an NA spec FJ62 and a Canadian 2H. How hard is it to convert the 24V 2H to 12v?

I've been trying the search function but have come up with more questions than answers. Thanks for the help, I need it!

[roscoFJ73]

Well I suppose you could use the old radiator but I like the hoses as short as possible.

The 2H as far as I know uses a 24v starter motor and runs on 12v for the oil pressure,temp sender .
So in theory you will just need a 12v diesel starter,try aussie ebay they always seem to pop up on there.
There is still the tacho and glowplugs to sort out as well.
The F tacho gets its signl from the coil,the 2h has a pick up on the flywheel so the old tacho may not work on a diesel.
For the glow plugs Im using a simple 12vset up where I hold the button down for 5-10 seconds in the morning.There are timers available
You will need the 2H alternator as it has the vac pump to run the power braake booster
I havent seen too many 24v jobs so Im hoping the canucks who have can chime in

[crushers]

i have a very solid used 2H rad sitting here if you need it...

[gavin]

Originally Posted by crushers

i have a very solid used 2H rad sitting here if you need it...

Hopefully you can bring it to Colorado with my motor How about the alternator, power steering pump and fuel filter? What else will be attached to the 2H or unused by the 12HT transplant ? I pm'd you.

How about the tachometer that rosco mentioned? got a spare?

Also curious about how the 24v to 12v conversion works, I have read much about the Solar converter, is that the simplest solution in both install and maintenance terms?

Sorry for all the newbie questions, inexperienced but committed and eager. I will order the HJ60 shop manual so that I can answer so more of these on my own.

best, Gavin

[Grease Cruiser]

What's up buddy! Good to see that you are on the board. John, here. The Cruiser guy as people refer to me, the one with the Cummins 60 in Carbondale.

Are you planning to turbo that 2H. Be aware that it is not the best to turbo as it has no bottom end piston cooling. It cannot tolerat a lot of boost. If you are not going to turbo, it will be very sluggish especially at our altitude.

Also, you would greatly benefit from a Overdrive transmission. You will not see the best fuel economy nor highway speeds with the 2H/A440 combo especially if you are not turbo'd.

I know that you are trying to do this as cheap as possible but, make sure you are getting what you want out of your truck.

Good luck. Ask a lot of questions and use the Search feature. You'll find the right option best for you.
John

[gavin]

Hey John-
Great to hear from you! I saw you and Mitzi rolling down Main St. last week. Such a nice Rig!!!!! Welcome back to town.

I have been reading a bunch- one of your recent threads has been really insightful. http://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/63774-toyota-diesel.html

What I really want is perfectly restored late 80's *j60 with a 12HT or 13BT and a WVO system, but that sounds like about $15-17K.

What I have is a FJ62 with 217K on a 3FE & A440 with rust at the wheel wells and needing a coat of paint, but good interior and rust free frame. Ok I should have bought your 3B/H55 a few months back, but I did not know enough then!!!

So here are my thoughts.... please check them for me.

Limitation #1.....Must be inexpensive and/or doable by the inexperienced (me). So it has to be easy and need a min. of parts.
#2 Preferably doable in increments, rather than big lumps.

So I am neither a power nor speed junky, but am more interested in fuel efficiency and WVO systems- mind you I would love an overdrive at some point, but could live without for a year or so if need be (H55 in the future?). I have read several comments that the 2H is a fairly efficient engine and I have seen it fairly cheap (1-2,000), also that it is able to be turbo'd just not pushed very hard. Also, it is simple as I can reuse the existing transmission for the moment.

A 12HT would be fantastic, but $5K and scarce seems to be the order of the day for those. The 3B(t) and 13BT seems to share the same fate.

Am I deluding myself in eagerness to get something going?

If you are around, let's have a beer- my treat / your knowledge.

Gavin

[Grease Cruiser]

Gavin,
Yep, I know your Cruiser. I am assuming that you bought Randall's right? I am back in town for awhile. Well, I should say that I will be around. Mitzi and I sold our house and we are now in limbo. I will be in and out of Carbondale but will be mostly in Paonia and hangin' out at Proffitt's for a few months. I have decided to build up a Cruiser that I have had awhile. And then, I'm done! I promise.

Are you set on using a Toyota diesel or are you exploring other options? A GM diesel might be an option for you. They are readily available and adaptors are available to mate to your A440. The 2H is a good engine, don't get me wrong. But again, they were only brought to Canada for a few years. Parts are available for them, but you may wait a week or more for them.

If you do go with the 2H option, I would recommend finding an HJ60 in Canada that is rusted out but still driveable. Get it down here to Colorado and we'll throw that puppy in your 62. I might even give you a few bucks for the H55F 5 speed if it comes with one. That way you see how it is all wired up and have all the small parts to make it a clean installation.

I'll be around Bone'dale primarily on the weekends. I'll take you up on that beer!

John

[jzmq]

You can get the 2h/ 12HT engine manual online at birfield.com- I think this is the address- http://www.birfield.com/downloads-cat-1.html

John

[Tapage]

Keep in mind also you need a 2H alternator or, aftermarket ( external ) vacum pump ..

My 2H engine are all around 12V and the PS pump have some tricky bracket bottom front the diesel pump.

[gavin]

jzmq Thanks for the manual link! I had not found those.

Tapage- I'm hoping it comes with alternator, but not sure yet.Thanks

Grease- Are you thinking the GM 6.2? Been pretty committed to Toyota, but will poke around looking at that conversion- I have only found one so far http://home.earthlink.net/~joemama1/LC.html the price is right $75!!!!! but the mileage is a little weak 17mpg- can't have everything. I'll pm you my cell number, give a call and the beer is on me.

[brownbear]

Originally Posted by Grease Cruiser

Gavin,

If you do go with the 2H option, I would recommend finding an HJ60 in Canada that is rusted out but still driveable. Get it down here to Colorado and we'll throw that puppy in your 62. I might even give you a few bucks for the H55F 5 speed if it comes with one. That way you see how it is all wired up and have all the small parts to make it a clean installation.


John

Bruce lowen(lowenbrau) I think has a parts hj60 for sale.....................

I have seen mostly auto tran's on most cnd hJ60's . This could be just my experience. But they are almost all auto's that I have come accross.

I have not seen one CND hj60, in my limited experience with a manual tranny. Not saying we didn't get any...........but when I have looked around there tends to be mostly the auto's......weird eh?

[crushers]

BB, the HJ60 manual are here just in few numbers, i have seen a half dozen or so go through my shop...

[gavin]

[quote=brownbear]Bruce lowen(lowenbrau) I think has a parts hj60 for sale.....................

I have seen mostly auto tran's on most cnd hJ60's .

Does this imply that the 2h is particularly well suited for the A440? or just a freak of importation? For those that do know the engine in auto's what is reasonable cruising speed? Any worse than my stock set up now- 60-70 mph? Is it/ should it be lower because of keeping rpm down for the diesel?

[roscoFJ73]

[quote=gavin]

Originally Posted by brownbear

Bruce lowen(lowenbrau) I think has a parts hj60 for sale.....................

I have seen mostly auto tran's on most cnd hJ60's .

Does this imply that the 2h is particularly well suited for the A440? or just a freak of importation? l

I guess its to do with the quirks of consumer tastes.

When HJ60 autos come up for sale in oz they usually advertise it as "rare" although they are more common behind the 12HT.

The HJ60 here was more of a work vehicle and fitted with a 5sp , barn doors and 3 seats in the front
This works out well for you

[brownbear]

Originally Posted by crushers

BB, the HJ60 manual are here just in few numbers, i have seen a half dozen or so go through my shop...

thats good to know. But you agree you have seen more autos?????? Maybe?

I did not want to say they did not come in manuals. But the ones I see for sale are mostly autos.........weird eh? I have not seen one manual for sale, not that I am searching non stop for hj60's for sale. Just refereing to when I purchased my BJ60.

Not an expert opinion here, but I think a 2h auto would cruise fine. And I see no problem turbo' it for low boost. In OZ they offer many turbo kits for it, so it must be OK. Everything non stock on any engine reduces engine life. That is life IMOP.

I also must mention for the OZ here, in Canada and the US almost all the vehicles sold currently and for the last 20 yrs are autos. only econo cars are manuals. Having a manual is generally looked upon as being "cheap".
Only really imports in recent times are manuals, or sports models.
for domestics they are almost all autos. trucks too. Toyota tundras with the V8 only come in autos. To get a standard you have to eliminate the v8 and 4x4. also choose the reg cab not the extended version.

Toyota sucks. They do not offer much choice.

GM ford and Dodge, probably only offer manuals on their trucks in stripped down versions too. Auto is the king here.

Ok history lesson over.

Install the 2h with your auto. Put in one of those turbo glide tranny kits, and turbo the engine, all will run nicely...........See the write ups on the tranny kits, there has been a few in here on it. The Dude did one and I think Greg_B. More on the Hj61 with the 12H-t and the auto....

[Wherlwind]

I have seen mostly auto tran's on most cnd hJ60's . This could be just my experience. But they are almost all auto's that I have come accross.

I have not seen one CND hj60, in my limited experience with a manual tranny. Not saying we didn't get any...........but when I have looked around there tends to be mostly the auto's......weird eh?[/quote]
I've found the exact opposite. All the HJs I've seen are 5spds and I haven't seen many with ATs .My HJ is a bit gutless with the 5spd and I really think it would be a lot worse with an AT. If you're decided about a 2H then I would look for an HJ that's rusted out with a 5spd but they still seem to ask around 5K Cdn. and those usually have around 400 km on them so you may have to rebuild it soon too. There's another 4K or so.
I'm rebuilding my 2H and swapping it into a rustfree FJ but only because I don't have much money and already have everything on hand otherwise I would buy a 12HT, although they are getting hard to find now.

[roscoFJ73]

Originally Posted by brownbear

Having a manual is generally looked upon as being "cheap".
....

How perceptions can differ Aussies think auto Landcruisers are ghay

[crushers]

Originally Posted by brownbear

thats good to know. But you agree you have seen more autos?????? Maybe?

....

nah, i would say 50/50. i wasn't trying to belittle your statement, i was just making one of my own.
a healthy 2H runs fine in front of manual or auto. i have one customer that has owned his since new, it has 500,000++ on it and it pulls strong. i had to pop the hood and check it out for myself whether he had turbo'd it or not. never rebuilt and the compression is perfect across the board. i was totally shocked to say the least.

[Tapage]

The only issue with the auto tranny in a 2H powered TLC are the posibilities to upgrade tires without re-gearing ..

So here in Panama we have more manual than auto, the people perseption are about auto tranny are to slow in climbs or so ..

[crushers]

i always hated autos in the bush at least i thought i did. this past weekend taught me a diferent impression. when you take a run at the hill the tranny automaticly upshifts (duh!!) but without wheel spin and as you are climbing the hill it down shifts without wheel spin. this takes quite a skill to master with a manual....and you can over ride the auto.
i am begining to like driving the automatic...

cheers

[brownbear]

Originally Posted by roscoFJ73

How perceptions can differ Aussies think auto Landcruisers are ghay

I know.....

My wife wanted here TDI Golf VW to be an auto, I did not. But She won as it was her car. And I tell ya, sitting in traffic for hours or just moving along, or light to light in the city.

Then I like the auto. The manual becomes too much work and hassle. For the town life here, I prefer the manual, it spices things up. Also feels nice in the mountains.

My experience towing boats out of the ocean or lakes I prefer autos too. Nothing worse than having to work the clutch to drag a 5-10 thousand pound boat out of the water.

Simply put, to me auto is easy(lazy) and manual is more fun, but can be more work in the city. And does not have the image of luxury in the high end vehicles.

That said, I would prefer a Land Cruiser with a manual. Depends on your driving.
Oh and the old myth that manuals are faster and get better mileage is now no longer a norm. Typical cars today are faster with autos as the trannys do better shifts, and with the smart computer controlled gearing and driver memory they produce better mileage numbers hands down. If you dont belieave me

Your loss.

[gavin]

Needless to say I have been thinking about all of this ALOT and the more I read- the more varied the opinions. I have been driving thuggish, sluggish and slow cars for a while now...an '86 F250 and now this FJ62...and I am totally fine with it- a bit of a meditative practice really. Everyone passes me and there is nothing I can do about it!

Priority number one for me is a simple and inexpensive diesel conversion and I do not see a more straight forward conversion out there than the 2H into the vehicle I already have. I am sure that this is the first step in a growing addiction, sort of a twelve step program into addiction.... and that as soon as I have tasted the glory I will want more power, more speed, more sophistication .... but that is for years to come.

Thanks to all for their advice and thoughts and input- I'll post (with a million questions) when I actually start the conversion.

So Wayne is that 2H engine still around? Still available? If you could pm me we could discuss transport, radiators, starters, alternators, fuel pumps, etc.. meanwhile I'll be reading manuals and other threads.....

[roscoFJ73]

Originally Posted by gavin

Priority number one for me is a simple and inexpensive diesel conversion and I do not see a more straight forward conversion out there than the 2H into the vehicle I already have. I am sure that this is the first step in a growing addiction, sort of a twelve step program into addiction.... and that as soon as I have tasted the glory I will want more power, more speed, more sophistication .... but that is for years to come.

..

I couldnt agree more. A simple conversion like this will get you driving a diesel a whole lot quicker with less cost and frustration.

When its all done you can begin to plan the next phase.
The auto will be fine.
The only advantage I can see of a manual is you can push start it.

[crushers]

nothing wrong with one step at a time. the engine is having a compression test done today and i am off on a CCSS/River Shiver? 4th LJ78 off road test run so i will no tknow the results till either later tomorrow or monday.

i will PM you the results.

cheers

[gavin]

Rosco- Thanks for all the thoughts and vote of confidence! BTW where are you in Western Aus.? My uncle used to be a mine engineer and I visited him in Kalgoolie (probably misspelled) a couple of times, he now lives near Perth. And my Aunt & her husband Rupert run a cattle station somewhere North of perth. Rest of the family is scattered around- Adelaide, Melbourne, Noosa Heads.... I'm sure that next time I am over I willl spend the whole time trying to figure out how to import one of the incredible trucks that you lucky Aussies get!!!

Wayne- enjoy the test run! I look forward to the results.
Thanks, Gavin