Funny EDIC Funky Chicken

[Behemoth60]

OK Kids, Gather round. I have a real puzzler for y'all.

Did an oil change tonight on Zippo, the truck that bursts into flames - 86 BJ70 w/ 599,010 kms. Truck idles outside the shop for a few minutes while I park all the rigs back in the spots, and take off. As I pull onto the main road, the EDIC starts doing the 'Funky Chicken'. That, as you all well know, is when the Fuel Control Relay sends repeated signals to the EDIC motor to overinject-run-off-repeat.

It does this at about one cylce per second all the way down the road. I pull over and detach the EDIC motor arm from the fuel control lever so as to prevent further instances of my head smashing into the steering wheel while trying to accelerate.

On the way home, I turn down the heater fan, and viola, the funky chicken slows down... overinject-run-off-run-wait 3 seconds-repeat. Wierd. I get home, turn off the headlights, and the funky chicken stops entirely. Wierder. OK, so I turn the running lights on, but the headlights off... funky every 5 seconds. Headlights off again, and it's fine. Fan on high, funnky every 3 seconds. Fan off, stops again. Headlights on and fan on high, it's constant.

So, the Fuel Control relay is going beserk with the load on the electrical system. Any guesses as to why?

My guess is bad ground. I'll clean the terminals tomorrow and see if that helps. Any other ideas?

Peter Straub

[Greg_B]

I've noticed with my BJ42 the EDIC takes a few seconds to shut down when stopped and the fan on high. I've noticed no realtionship with the headlights though, however they are always off before I turn it off.

In addtion to new battery to frame ground and engine to frame ground cables, I ran a ground from the firewall to the frame, through a brass busbar on the firewall...

Make sure your engine to frame has a good ground too, for the EDIC motor to function.

My funky chicken EDIC this last bit turned out to the in the EDIC motor itself. The contact surface on the bottom of the "wheel" got coated in grease, and was not allowing consistant contact. The EDIC relay would do the clickity clack as it moved little by little.

hth's

gb

[crushers]

the only time i experienced the funky chicken EDIC control was after dunking the glove box under water and shorting out the controler on a BJ42...
probably a poor ground or a crack in the circit board...

[Radd Cruisers]

I have had the exact same problem on a 1986 BJ70 I use to own.

Driving down the road and it shut off and on like it is running out of fuel.

I pulled over and wiggled the wires at the EDIC motor, bad connection, guessing corrosion.

Rob

[seapotato]

My old bj40 did it once, just after a highway drive in a torrential downpour. I popped the arm off the pump, and listened to it click for a while.


kindof cured itself the next day. was guessing that water got into the whizjammer by the glovebox ( winshield frame gaskets never seem to work for me)

[Diescipel]

I agree, probably bad ground. But here's my saga:

Huge rainstorm last spring and it started, Wayne mentioned his creek submarine experience and so I figured it got wet, especially when the problem went away as the weather dried up.

However, often the funky chicken would start like you describe when I had headlights on, or fan, or both, or maybe headlights and fan on high. So again I would guess ground. I cleaned up the ground straps but it would randomly do this on occasion this summer when I had my top off (live right near the ocean, get lots of fog etc.). Again, moisture has something to do with it, effecting the EDIC control circuit. EDIT: I didn't do the ground straps while the funky chicken was dancing. Bruce/lowenbrau suggested using jumper cables with the dancing happening to diagnose the bad ground.

When I came back recently from traveling, the driver's headlight on the BJ would come on spontaneously (it had rained a lot when I was away)--as in, I wake up at 3 am because I'm getting blinded by the headlight. I pulled the dimmer relay and opened it up--absolutely no moisture or corrosion in there as far as I can tell, but it was full of dust so I blew it out with compressed air and cleaned up the contacts to the wiring harness with some 120 grit. This fixed the headlight problem (so far), but also for some reason the funky chicken is nowhere to be found no matter how much electrical draw I give it.

So.................?

Right now since nothing is happening I'm not going to do anything, but I like Greg's suggestion of a firewall to frame ground.

Greg was the busbar already there or did you install it?

And if the funky chicken returns, I will probably try to open up the EDIC control box, which Wayne also suggested in the past. Considering my miracle with the dimmer relay, I might just "fix" it.

Oh and the EDIC control relay box thing is what like $700? Cock-a-doodle-do.

B

[Behemoth60]

I haven't tested it yet today, but the moisture possibility did cross my mind. Like others, I've had it when sumberged. Not sure if it's moisture in the EDIC motor itself, or moisture in the fuel control relay that does it, but water is definately some cause of the funky chicken.

Peter

[Jan-78FJ40]

Hi Peter,
we had exactly that happen when we put the engine into the HJ60 2 weeks ago. It turned out to be a bad ground from the block to the frame, the cable that (on a 60) goes from the slave cylinder bolts to the frame. Once this was cleaned and attached well, there were no problems anymore.
Jan

[lowenbrau]

Its a ground for sure. When Eric Delisle borrowed my BJ70 for a few months in the 90s, he complained about similar symptoms. I called him a worrier and ignored him till I had a chance to drive the rig myself. He had a system down where he would lift the accelerator at exactly the right time every three seconds and could drive rather smoothly. I never mastered that and after shuddering and jolting my way around the block I drove into the shop, connected my booster/jumper cables from the block the the battery - and 'solved' the problem. Some months later I replaced the ground strap from the block to the frame which I suspect you bumped when you did your oil change last night.

[Diescipel]

But then.... what about the moisture factor? Multicausal problem?

[Greg_B]

Originally Posted by Diescipel

Greg was the busbar already there or did you install it? B

I installed it on the engine side of the firewall when I did the frame off, so any aftermarket item installed would have a 100% ground to attach too.

24V EDIC relays are platinum.
12V EDIC relays are gold.

There are a few used ones floating around.

gb

[Behemoth60]

Well, it wasn't quite the ground. Turns out it was the significant and embarrasing amount of corrosion on the positive battery terminal. Funny, after cleaning that, the Funcky Chicken stopped, the glow plugs work, the starter runs better, the headlights are brighter, and the alternator puts out more charge. weird.

Peter Straub

[Diescipel]

lol

Come to think of it I just replaced a broken/corroded positive terminal on the low side battery...

B

[Wayneraintree]

Doncha love this thread

Somewhere, at any given moment, a LandCruiser is doing the funky chicken Unfortunately for me, my 24V '87 formerly FJ now HJ-60 is doing the dance

The fuel control relay is clicking the injection through the cycle, fast when lights and blower fan are on, slower yet still doing it when not, idling with nothing on it clicks the slowest but the arm is still slowly moving. Just like ones in threads I scoured over the past few days.

So far I have:

Cleaned all the grounds (batteries, to body/frame, block to frame)
Disassembled the EDIC motor and cleaned contacts and ensured wires were connected, etc. all with contact cleaner. It looked new inside!
Examined the relay internals and cleaned with contact cleaner, again, appears new.
Replaced the oil pressure signal switch and grounded the wire to it while engine running and it kills the engine as it should.
Relay tested fine for ground, mounted on the kick panel PS, mounting bolts tight

I am going to start chasing conductivity in the wires going to the relay... I am using the FSM and SandCruiser's pics and write up... but I still can't figure out what each wire does in terms of the motor to know what voltage it should be giving and when... but I digress I am thinking the relay is bad through process of elimination. I am not sure how to test the relay to see if it is bad.

Help?

[rchalmers3]

Sounds like if the relays are that finicky ya'll ought to be checking your alternator output as well. Low alt out put or low regulated current may be a factor, especially with high blower and/or headlights.

Good post on sussing the battery terminals. They are a maintenance item that is often forgotten!!!

Rick

[Wayneraintree]

My meter won't show me 24V... it gets to 20 or so and hits 1.0

I guess I need to get a meter that goes over 24V to make sure the output is correct.

While trying to duplicate the problem, I inadvertently left the headlights on for an hour... then it would not start due to lack of battery power. I jumped it and it fired up again.... still have the EDIC problem though.

Maybe a slow dying battery or two?

[rchalmers3]

Don't think it's the batteries, 'cause low batteries on a healthy system causes high voltage from the alternator to replenish them. I think it's low voltage either from low alt output or the regulator limiting output.

Yes, definitely buy (or borrow) a scalable voltmeter so you can read what's happening. Your batteries should be able to power the headlights longer than that. You could be having weak batteries due to, or in addition to an anemic charging system.

Rick

[Wayneraintree]

Yes Rick! I had the batteries tested today.. one was weak so I replaced them both... then tested the output on the alt... not much to speak of : (

So I have a spare alt with vac pump, going to the local alt/starter rebuild shop with it in hand tomorrow. Hopefully they can rework it and I will install it and report back....

[Wayneraintree]

So the alt. guy found a bad regulator and the brushes need replaced.... fingers crossed it is the problem.

New regulator should be in tomorrow and I'll have it installed tomorrow...

[Tapage]

Definately a V related issue .. interesting to check with a Voltimeter the amount of V that reach the EDIC ..

[rchalmers3]

Originally Posted by Wayneraintree

Yes Rick! I had the batteries tested today.. one was weak so I replaced them both... then tested the output on the alt... not much to speak of : (

What was the measured alternator output with the new batteries? In my experience, you should be seeing 28-29v on a working system with good batteries. That's using a volt meter, not the gauge on the dash!

And importantly as Tapage suggests, what voltage are the regulator and EDIC relay seeing? Connections to these important functions should be verified.

Rick

[Wayneraintree]

I replaced the alt. with the reworked unit. The alt. guy added new brushes and volt reg. Now it puts out a whopping (though adequate and OE spec I believe) 50 amps : )

The EDIC seems to be operating normally but I need some drive time to verify it is fixed... I will also see the volts at the EDIC and regulator when I have time. The alt. guy reworked my old alt. and my spare alt. added wiring to the spare (which it was missing) both with new brushes and volt. reg. for $130 USD! Not bad : )


*edit: drove it 20 miles.... the EDIC relay is still cycling with lights and blower fan on guess I am going to probe some more wires I ran jumper cable wires from the negative terminal on the battery to the block, EDIC motor, and relay to see if I could isolate a ground issue... no changes...

[rchalmers3]

Originally Posted by Wayneraintree

Now it puts out a whopping (though adequate and OE spec I believe) 50 amps : )

How did you measure amps? Cause you need volts and amps to have your truck workie!

Originally Posted by Wayneraintree

... the EDIC relay is still cycling with lights and blower fan on guess I am going to probe some more wires I ran jumper cable wires from the negative terminal on the battery to the block, EDIC motor, and relay to see if I could isolate a ground issue... no changes...

My thinking is to the voltage output of the charging system and voltage at the EDIC. Lets get that out of the way and dig into the Funky Chicken itself...

Rick

[Wayneraintree]

Thanks Rick, on the fancy dancy alt. guy's machine the alt put out 50 amps. I will measure the volts on all three alt. wires tomorrow and probe the EDIC wires as well..... and of course, report back : )

[Wayneraintree]

So the alt. measures a little over 28 V while running....

I get 25V at the EDIC plug green wire with engine running with accessories running, blue wire trickles at .8V... the other two show nothing while running under a load. What the EDIC appears to be doing it slowly moving the arm forward (with lights/fan) until it hits the overinjection position then.. poof, black smoke, and the arm swings back to the "on" position... only to slowly creep forward. Maybe the .8V at the blue wire is causing the motor to go forward slowly?

Anyone know what V on which wire needs to be at which position of the arm?

[seapotato]

Did you ever get yours figgered out?

My 87 24v bj70 has the funky chicken affliction at the moment. But ONLY if the headlights are on, and ONLY if I plug in the drivers side headlight. ( the one that runs on 12v. )

If I unplug that one headlight, problem goes away. I spent most of the day cleaning up some dubious wiring to my 24-12 converter and stereo, but didn't fix anything as I'd hoped it would...

I cleaned up all the grounds I could find, and actually made a new engine to frame ground ( hadn't had one in years) didn't help.





This all started when I replaced the fenders on the truck, but I didn't notice the problem for a month or so, because I didn't turn on the headlights...

Tomorrow I may take the edic off and clean it up a bit , jiggle some connections. see what happens.


I'm sorely tempted to hook up a couple of relays to the other headlight and have both lights powered by 24v, already have the relays kicking around, but then somewhere in the truck is still this issue that I haven't cured.

[seapotato]

Well, seems like I fixed it.

Wouldn't go as far as " significant and embarrassing amount of corrosion" on the battery terminals, but when I polished them all up and reclamped them, and then added a ground wire from the Neg. terminal to the firewall , the problem went away.

I think it was the batt terminals more than the ground strap, but I figgered it couldn't hurt.

So, for the time being, all good. with everything turned on the edic stays quiet.