More Power from 13BT

[tlcruiserman]

Is the light on a BJ74 with 13B-T (red) the same as the single bulb on the HDJ80 next to the timeing belt light. In other words will that come on at 15lbs of boost? second question should these lights go off automatically once the boost is lower than 15lbs or do they stay on until reset by ignition off.

Thanks,

Michael

[Tapage]

Originally Posted by crushers

factory is 8 lbs, i have run 15 psi safely but the higher the boost the more heat is generated till the extra boost is actually negilated (is that a word?) by the heat produce...
so the extra pressure is jut creating stress on your components when there is no need...
cheers

I'm need to say, I'm very fearful and don't think we need to put more stress that necesary in our engines .. If I can do a lots of things with my actualy 2H with 105 HP and when put a turbo 10 or 12 psi boosted get 150 HP wou thta's awesome ..

why go to 200 .. ? then I go to take part of CJ group of broken cars .?

Let my explain my point of view. My club here in Panamá go to heavy mud wheeling, I carry one action packer with some spare parts, and all of them carry other car to replace all things that them break through the wheeling ..

Here we have a expresion, is in spanish maybe not make much sence for you

CJ-7 = se joen 7 that means botch seven

P.S. Crusher is not a word, I can't find in my dictionary

[crushers]

Crusher is slang for Cruiser.
Crusher's Rule became the company name back in 95 or 96 since it appealed to my customers feel of what a cruiser is, a "land crusher".

[Tapage]

Originally Posted by crushers

Crusher is slang for Cruiser.
Crusher's Rule became the company name back in 95 or 96 since it appealed to my customers feel of what a cruiser is, a "land crusher".

uupsss .. ! sorry dude .. ! I refer to this word " negilated " but

[tlcruiserman]

Originally Posted by Tapage

uupsss .. ! sorry dude .. ! I refer to this word " negilated " but

I think you ment "Negated" - canceled, invalid, null and void

[Behemoth60]

Originally Posted by crushers

Peter, my friend, you just agreed with what i said ...
;^)

If my wastegate was jammed closed (and assuming I wanted it open), I would get a pry-bar and wiggle it until the carbon that was built up on it and sticking it closed broke free. Then I would make a point of driving over 2000RPM's at least once per day to keep the wastegate operational.

Do your customers keep their pry bars in their wallets? That's the only connection I can see between the red light coming on and getting out one's wallet. Maybe they keep a condom in there to put over their hands to keep them clean during the repair.

Peter Straub

[Behemoth60]

Originally Posted by Tapage

I'm need to say, I'm very fearful and don't think we need to put more stress that necesary in our engines ..

I feel sad for you if you live in fear.

I do not have any fear of engine failure, mechanical breakdowns, or even roll-overs. They can be expensive, annoying, intrusive in one's plans, but if you cannot afford to drive and hard-core mud wheel a 15-30 year old vehicle and maintain it, fix it, then maybe you're in the wrong hobby. Do not live in fear, my friend. Embrace the adventure, but for goodness sake, don't live in fear.

Peter Straub

[canadian bum]

So what does the green light mean. That you are getting maximum normal boost?

[crushers]

Originally Posted by Behemoth60

I feel sad for you if you live in fear.

I do not have any fear of engine failure, mechanical breakdowns, or even roll-overs. They can be expensive, annoying, intrusive in one's plans, but if you cannot afford to drive and hard-core mud wheel a 15-30 year old vehicle and maintain it, fix it, then maybe you're in the wrong hobby. Do not live in fear, my friend. Embrace the adventure, but for goodness sake, don't live in fear.

Peter Straub

LOL!!
Peter, you really know how to bring out a smile on a dreary Alberta day...
cheers

[Greg_B]

Originally Posted by canadian bum

So what does the green light mean. That you are getting maximum normal boost?

It means you are getting boost between two set figures. I don't have my book to check the lower figure, but it comes on when boost is sensed, up to the point where the red one comes on, (15lbs).

hth's

gb

[canadian bum]

ok that sounds good. So when i shim the wastegate a move the diaphram away from the wastegate itself. I'm only trying to get around 12- 13 psi of boost, just to get that unburnt fuel burning.

[Greg_B]

Originally Posted by canadian bum

ok that sounds good. So when i shim the wastegate a move the diaphram away from the wastegate itself. I'm only trying to get around 12- 13 psi of boost, just to get that unburnt fuel burning.

I installed a boost and pyro gauge on my BJ74, and started playing, shimming the wastegate. Shimming has been done before, this is nothing new. It was new to me, and my interest was piqued when during LandCruiser Daze 2005 Rob Mullen mentioned shimming as a viable quick boost increase, to Rob Millson, who mentioned it to me (thanks guys).

Shimming the wastegate further out has the same effect as shortening the wastegate rod, for those lucky enough to have that type of adjustment.

Pyro installed 2" below the flange on the exhaust pipe, from the turbo dump. Wire still on the injection pump adjustment, but who knows if the fuel had been played with in Japan. Good air filter, limited blowby. Stock exhaust, 255/85R16 Coopers. Sea level, fall days between 20C-25C. I had aced aircare in the spring.

With no shims I was dumping boost at just below 8lbs. I was blowing a little black smoke out the pipe under heavy acceleration; nothing excessive imo. Freeway driving, 2400RPM, steady speed was around 800F, 7lbs boost. Matted, going up the Alex Fraser bridge, 2100RPM and holding, I got it up to 1150F, and the temp was climbing slowly. I backed out. Flat driving again...It was fairly easy to get it up to and past 1100F any time I wanted, when I had the room to turn it out.

Shimmed 4mm. Max boost seemed to dump at just shy of 10lbs. Same trip, same results steady throttle at 2400RPM on the freeway, 7lbs...around 800F. Alex Fraser, matted throttle, dumping at just shy of 10lbs, it climbed slowly to 1000F, and was very slowly climbing over 1000F. I backed out from traffic, and forgot to mark the RPM, however it was above 2100, and had more power.

Shimmed to 6mm. Max boost seems to dump just over 10lbs. Have to work it hard to get it over 1000F. Have not been to the Alex Fraser to check and compare yet.

6mm seems to have given me a generous 3lbs boost. You need to cut the front section off to allow the 3rd bolt to catch the wastegate body. You could probably pull the body out another 2mm, but anything further then 8mm would be getting past the point where that bolt would be doing anything and you would be better off using a grainger valve.

Less smoke out the pipe, more power, better EGT's. Unknown about fuel economy yet, however I am using the extra, so it will likely be a wash. I will continue to track.

For this truck, in which moderation is the word...I am happy with this simple adjustment. I think the motor will be happier in the long run too.

I think it is viable to simply up the boost moderately with this simple mod, to get more air density into the engine, burn the available fuel, and increase operating pressures slightly; all increasing vehicle driveability. 10lbs does not require an intercooler, so increased heat should not be a concern.

Stone has his shimmed to 6mm as well, and is very happy with the results. Less smoke, more power, etc. He did not adjust the fuel either.

Next is injector servicing, timing the pump, and getting a supra turbo dump (edit---waiting for some pictures and research to confirm if the Supra will work in the BJ74 engine bay---end edit), then running 2.5" all the way, decreasing back pressure.

What I found suprising was how easy it was to get the EGT's up to and past what is considered the safe zone, with a stock setup (at least what looks stock and untouched to me).

I was also suprised at how much performance gain there is with just 3psi difference; it does not sound like much, however it is very noticable.

Your experience may be different this mine, so adjust at your own risk.

hth's

gb

[canadian bum]

Thanks for the info Greg that is what i have been waiting for. Now to go and do this and see what type of results i get.

[Stone]

Whole different truck since my wastegate was shimmed. Much more pep off the line, a lot more power going through 2nd and 3rd gears, and climbing hills is a lot easier. Fuel mileage has suffered somewhat, but this is no doubt because I'm using up all the extra power that I've gained. Much less smoke out the tailpipe.

Can't wait to have the budget for a boost gauge and a pyro.

Best 50 cent modification ever, Greg!

[Radd Cruisers]

Originally Posted by Stone

Whole different truck since my wastegate was shimmed. Much more pep off the line, a lot more power going through 2nd and 3rd gears, and climbing hills is a lot easier. Fuel mileage has suffered somewhat, but this is no doubt because I'm using up all the extra power that I've gained. Much less smoke out the tailpipe.

Can't wait to have the budget for a boost gauge and a pyro.

Best 50 cent modification ever, Greg!

Great cheap upgrade............................

[Technikev]

Hey stone, your somewhat decreased fuel mileage is no doubt because your right foot weighs more due to the extra G forces on accelleration. Umm... yeah, that's probably the reason. ;-)

-Kevin

[Gold Boy]

Even I could, do that its the kind of upgrade that I like. SO please could you tell me did you use washers for the shims, if so what size ?

Good one Greg_B / Stone


GB

[Stone]

I do have a little bit of a leadfoot...

The washers used were approximately 2mm thick each. I didn't buy them, but Greg stacked three of them together and that supposedly added up to about 6mm thick. Just make sure that the hole is large enough for the bolt but not too long. I think Greg also gave me a couple of bolts that were slightly longer than the originals. Not sure if the length of the original bolts will accomodate the 6mm shimming. Maybe Greg remembers better than I do regarding these bolts.

[canadian bum]

The originals are working fine for me. There is enough bolt that you don't have to worry about stripping if you don't over tighten. But anymore than 6 mm will leave you with little tread holding the wastegate on.

[blownbj]

My Question to you guys is what is the major difference in the 13bt head and the 3b head that gives you the confidence to run 15lbs boost on the 13bt and 10lbs on the 3b? I'm not sure exactly what the difference between the direct injection head and inderect injection head are. If someone could post a picture comparing the two heads I would really be able to get a physical understanding of the difference.

[blownbj]

I would also like to add that if you are going to do any tweaking to your fuel air mixture on a diesel engine that a pyrometer and boost guage is alot cheaper than a new engine. You should definitely drop a good dime on guages so that you can monitor your engine closely under all driving conditions. Even those guys dropping $1000 programer set ups in there super duties and cummins engines should think twice about touching the go pedal without a pyro.

[Stone]

??? Direct Injected engine means there are no pre-combustion chambers (pre-cups) in the head, like in the 3B. In the 13B-T, the injector sprays the fuel directly into the cylinder. Since pre-cups are small chambers fitted into the head, and they have a small opening for the fuel-air mixture to swirl into the cylinder, it's not such a great idea to run huge amounts of boost into them. Pre-cups can crack, fall out, and do some serious damage to the cylinder = $$$.

The guys running crazy amounts of boost into their Cummins/Ram 3500 setups and getting over 1000 ft/lbs of torque at their rear wheels (the B&D boys in Abbotsford, for example) obviously have tweaked up their boost as well as their fuel settings. This isn't what I've done so far.

As it was explained to me, more diesel = higher EGT. What I've done is increase boost pressure (very moderately at that from 8 psi OEM to around 10 psi) to help me burn my fuel more completely without increasing the mixture for now. GregB has a pyrometer and boost gauge on his and we both have the same setup, and he's hardly getting 1000*F post turbo even under load. I'm pretty confident that my EGTs now are lower than before I increased my boost.

But if "blownbj" refers to a turboed 3B, I'm sure that all this is old info for you already...is it not?

[crushers]

makes sense since you are forcing more air into the chamber and you have not cranked up the fuel...
hence lower egt's

[canadian bum]

Plus the compretion ration is higher in the 3B than in the 13BT. The 13BT was designed for turbo charging where as the 3B wasn't.

[crushers]

the boost is nice but you really have to crank the fuel up if you want real increase in power...
cheers

[Greg_B]

Originally Posted by canadian bum

Plus the compretion ration is higher in the 3B than in the 13BT. The 13BT was designed for turbo charging where as the 3B wasn't.

Even though the DI 13BT is the factory turbocharged version of the IDI 3B...I bet the the nicest thing you can do for a 3B is turbo charge it...even if simply a moderate 6-7lbs. I bet the engine will be happier for it, simply due to EGT's.

gb

[Greg_B]

Originally Posted by crushers

the boost is nice but you really have to crank the fuel up if you want real increase in power...cheers

I have been learning that fuel without air, in addition to exessive EGT's, is energy out the pipe. The stated exersize of my playing around with this BJ74 was moderation, decreasing EGT's, trying to use all the available fuel..which would equal more effici