Which "3B" series engine to use?

[cruiser_guy]

I'm toying with the idea of installing a "3B" series engine (with a turbo of course) into the '67 FJ45LV in the process of restoration. Here in Central America the "3B" and "H" series engines are relatively common, however turbo's are not common on those engines (I've never heard of a turbo'd one of these locally).
I can get the 3B, 11B, 13B, and even a 14B. Which would be preffered? I'm not a fan of the "H" series due to it's problems of cracking rings. I know the 3B isn't perfect but with an alloy head most of the 3B problems are taken care of not to mention my mush greater familiarity with them.

[Island Moose]

Well, if you're saying you can't find parts for the 13B in your region, and that parts for the 3B are common, then I guess you may want to consider the 3B.

However, all things being equal, the 13B is a much more powerful engine than the 3B and would be my choice.

[Chang-kuao-lo]

The main difference between 3B and 1-3B-T is the head. same stuff from the head down as a 3B. Direct injection, and no glow-plugs, a pre-heat screen instead, and of course turbo, all really great options. The 2H is, unfortunately, a bucket of bolts, probably the worst engine Toyota ever made, however: the 1-2H-T is an awesome engine. The turbo is the same as a Toyota Supra, just the housing's different. Pretty much everything but the head and turbo(+40 hp!!) are the same on 3B and 1-3B-T engines. The JDM parts can be had. 1-3B-T is the best "bang for the buck". Not to say the old 3B isn't a good ol' workhorse

[roscoFJ73]

Cruiser guy,Did you mean you can get 13B but not 13BT?

Does anyone know much about the 13B 14B ?
Ive always presumed the numeral '1"in front of the 4B meant it was turbo ready??

Ive heard it has a thicker crank, reinforced block or bigger bearings ect.

Its got 96hp and 177lbs/ft of torque,has a slightly longer stroke and 18:1 compression ratio.
It could be a real giant killer with a turbo
You can get parts easy anywhere Dynas are sold.
If anyone was interested there is a place in oz selling brand new injector pumps for 14B for $600US

[Stone]

Absolutely the 13B-T out of your list, Charles. Greg and I are going to shim our turbos in the next little while to bring our boost back up to spec...and we're thinking there should be a good difference.

All that said, I love the 12H-T...smooth, torquey, and a miser with fuel. The short production run of them would be what would have me worried...but they are great engines.

[Technikev]

Stone, what do you mean you are going to "shim" your turbo?

-kevin

[Greg_B]

We'll do it first, then report back if it is noticable and worthwhile

gb

[Stone]

Originally Posted by Greg_B

We'll do it first, then report back if it is noticable and worthwhile

gb

I'm already shopping for a big spoiler to put on the 74 after we shim our turbos, GB.

[brownbear]

Originally Posted by Stone

I'm already shopping for a big spoiler to put on the 74 after we shim our turbos, GB.

I second that," what do you mean shim your turbo"?

shimming the wastegate mech?

how about just restrict the air to the wastegate, that'll bring the boost up to better than pathetic 5.5psi levels. eh? aim for 13-15,

please do report about shimming.........

[Vegard]

The "1" in front of the 3 or 4 in 13B or 14B says they are direct injected, unlike the 3B. The 13BT is as you know in addition turbo charged. Same applies to the 14B-T. The 14B(T) is 3.6 liters if I remember correctly. I know the 13B and the 14B were/are powering some of the Dynas.

[roscoFJ73]

Originally Posted by Vegard

The "1" in front of the 3 or 4 in 13B or 14B says they are direct injected, unlike the 3B. The 13BT is as you know in addition turbo charged. Same applies to the 14B-T. The 14B(T) is 3.6 liters if I remember correctly. I know the 13B and the 14B were/are powering some of the Dynas.

Thanks for that Vegard

[Greg_B]

I would hazard a guess that any of the "1"s without a turbo must be mondo smokey....

gb

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by Greg_B

I would hazard a guess that any of the "1"s without a turbo must be mondo smokey....

gb

Everything down here that runs diesel is smokey except me 'cause I don't want to crack my head and I still need to pass Aircare in B.C. whenever we go back!

[crushers]

i tried something yesterday since i over fuel my own trucks and do not have the pyro problem that you do. i tried lugging through the gears and the temps rose fast but when i drove as i normally do the temps were fine.
could it be yo are working the engine to hard, not allowing it to breath? try bring the revs up higher between shifts so it isn't lugging as much and let me know what happens...
cheers

[Technikev]

Brownbear, I guess they don't want to tell us what "shimming" the turbo is. Maybe its a secret... ;-)

-Kevin

[Stone]

It's no secret, Kevin...and Brownbear knows exactly what it is (as in his post). We're planning on shimming our wastegate so that it builds up more boost before dumping. After talking to Rob Millson, Greg decided to put a vacuum gauge to our engines to see exactly how much boost we're developing. His was making around 6.5 psi, and mine was a pretty low 5.5 psi. So...we're planning on shimming our wastegates to bring it up to the factory 8 psi and see if that makes a significant difference. We'll let you know how it turns out.

[Greg_B]

Originally Posted by Technikev

Brownbear, I guess they don't want to tell us what "shimming" the turbo is. Maybe its a secret... ;-)-Kevin

As mentioned...no secret. I wanted to see if this would work, if it was worthwhile, and worthy of posting about, before setting the information on this database. If we can shim our factory wastegate actuator to dump just before the red light on the dash comes on, and if it is noticable in performance, it may well be a worthwhile mod for those who do not have have a boost guage (as recommended to monitor a granger valve) and want to stay within stock settings. We will have a guage set up at the engine, to check the effect of different thickness washers, and see at what boost pressure the red light comes on.

As Stone says...we will report back when done.

hth's

gb

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by crushers

i tried something yesterday since i over fuel my own trucks and do not have the pyro problem that you do. i tried lugging through the gears and the temps rose fast but when i drove as i normally do the temps were fine.
could it be yo are working the engine to hard, not allowing it to breath? try bring the revs up higher between shifts so it isn't lugging as much and let me know what happens...
cheers

The issues I have relate more to altitude, Guatemala City is at 5,500 ft. and the lack of nicely graded hills, there are hills EVERYWHERE and they aren't graded at 4 or 5%. I generally run at a higher RPM and it does help a little.

[Chang-kuao-lo]

1-4B powered the 2t dynos (is that the same as Hino in NA?), I'm not sure if there was a turbo option on them.

[tlcruiserman]

If you look at the track record of Toyota, for the most part they only improve on design as time goes on. I would go with the 14B if you can, it is basically an updated 13B.

Cheers,

Michael

Originally Posted by cruiser_guy

I'm toying with the idea of installing a "3B" series engine (with a turbo of course) into the '67 FJ45LV in the process of restoration. Here in Central America the "3B" and "H" series engines are relatively common, however turbo's are not common on those engines (I've never heard of a turbo'd one of these locally).
I can get the 3B, 11B, 13B, and even a 14B. Which would be preffered? I'm not a fan of the "H" series due to it's problems of cracking rings. I know the 3B isn't perfect but with an alloy head most of the 3B problems are taken care of not to mention my mush greater familiarity with them.

[blownbj]

what does the waste gate actuator setup on the 13BT look like that you guys are taalking about shimming? On my AXT I bottomed out the turn buckle trying to get more boost pressure but could ony achieve about 8psi so I cut some of the threads off the linkage and was able to bring it up to 12psi but that was about all I could load it up to.

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by blownbj

what does the waste gate actuator setup on the 13BT look like that you guys are taalking about shimming? On my AXT I bottomed out the turn buckle trying to get more boost pressure but could ony achieve about 8psi so I cut some of the threads off the linkage and was able to bring it up to 12psi but that was about all I could load it up to.

I can get my AXT to 15psi or higher if I want to!! That's on a 3B in the BJ60 with 2 1/2" pipe following the stock routing but no muffler, stock air filter with either paper or TRD oiled filter. What's your setup look like?

Many of the factory OEM turbo's are non-adjustable which is why Stone and others need to shim them (basically move the actuator away from the wastegate thereby increasing the actuator/wastegate distance and "tightening up" the linkage (is that about right Greg/Stone).

[tlcruiserman]

Originally Posted by blownbj

what does the waste gate actuator setup on the 13BT look like that you guys are taalking about shimming? On my AXT I bottomed out the turn buckle trying to get more boost pressure but could ony achieve about 8psi so I cut some of the threads off the linkage and was able to bring it up to 12psi but that was about all I could load it up to.

Edit - my post was directed at AXT turbo and yes should only do this if you have pyro and boost guage.

Stop adjusting the vacum linkage and get a grainger valve, that will allow you to trick the vacum into thinking you have less boost that you actually have and delay the bypass. I have found them to work great.

Cheers,

Michael

[Greg_B]

Originally Posted by tlcruiserman

Stop adjusting the vacum linkage and get a grainger valve, that will allow you to truck the vacum into thinking you have less boost that you actually have and delay the bypass. I have found them to work great.
Cheers, Michael

Only to be done if you have a boost gauge to monitor a sudden spring failure, or spring weakening with age...

We are playing a little to see if the amber light comes on, and what PSI this will happen, and how much shimming is needed to make it happen, so some data will be in the collective if someone wants to do this, not use a grainger valve, or boost gauge. The manual says the amber light on the dash should come on at 15.5lbs. When we are done playing, we'll post up.

I think it will require too much shimming to get to 15.5lbs, however if someone can add a small amount like say...4mm, and get a few more lbs (which will be noticable) and run at 8.5-9lbs..with little worry, this might be good...no?

gb

[Deny]

Originally Posted by Greg_B

I think it will require too much shimming to get to 15.5lbs, however if someone can add a small amount like say...4mm, and get a few more lbs (which will be noticable) and run at 8.5-9lbs..with little worry, this might be good...no?

gb

NO, it is very bad. I think you should remove the entire engine and send it to me, then install a good old 3B. You will thank me when you do!

[crushers]

Originally Posted by Greg_B

Only to be done if you have a boost gauge to monitor a sudden spring failure, or spring weakening with age...

gb

agreed, any playing with the boost should be accompanied with both a boost guage and a pyro...
now do note that if the spring did fail either breaking or weakening, the boost would go back to 8 lbs, if the complete unit came free of the housing then the boost would be usually 20 lbs (or so i have seen).

[Greg_B]

Originally Posted by crushers

agreed, any playing with the boost should be accompanied with both a boost guage and a pyro...
now do note that if the spring did fail either breaking or weakening, the boost would go back to 8 lbs, if the complete unit came free of the housing then the boost would be usually 20 lbs (or so i have seen).