boost pressure Where to set?

[BURGER]

I picked up my grainger valve today and have a few questions. Once I fabb up some barbed fittings to the end of the valve is it as easy as just cutting the black tubing from my intake plenum to my waste gate actuator and installing the boost controller. Do I have to have anything else installed connecting to the apparatus to make it work?I have a boost guage instaled already.

I ask this because some of the links I have found while searching show a little bit different way to do it but I think that is for when you use a turbo with a different type of waste gate.

Lastly I have the 12-ht motor and h55f combo and was wondering where approx I should be setting my boost level to. I have heard that 14 lbs is no problems but some first hand experience would be so much better.

[crushers]

make sure you get some tiny clamps as the rubber line has a habit of blowing off...

[BURGER]

Yeah I have new little clamps.

Am I on the right track as to how I am installing and do you know what would be a good pressure to set at.

Lastly what kind of gains am I looking at here. Better economy,noticable power gains lower egts. What kind of power gain do you think in %.

[crushers]

what i would do is sart low say 10 psi, give a try, turn up the fuel, try again.
go to 12 psi, give it a try, turn up the fuel a bit more and if you are happy then leave it alone, if you want then turn up the valve to 14 psi (max i recommend but then i am no guru) and turn up the fuel again...
the thing you want to remember is VERY seldom are you going to be up to this setting anyway, on the highway you will be at between 6 and 8 psi, you might see 12 on a hill or if you are pulling a trailer and have your foot into it you might reach 14 psi.
the big thing is the EGTs, make sure you set your max fuel so the gauge does not go over 1000F so test on a good long steep hill... ie the coqu...
cheers
Wayne

[BURGER]

Thanks crushers. I was hoping to not turn up the fuel as I get some black smoke under load and was hoping to use that up before adjusting fuel. Also it seems that you said most time I will not see full load(12lbs boost) but at the moment when driving say 100km/hr in 4th or 5th and not pushing it I am running a constant 8lbs of boost. Will this still be the norm after turning up the boost and only under full load will it go to say 12lbs of boost.

Lastly what kind of adjustment can I expect to have to do to the fuel adjustment. I.E. 1/2 cturn for say 2 extra pounds of boost.

Thanks for your help,diesel newbie at work here.

[BURGER]

This is what I have made but I feel like there is something wrong. I have read a few sites and they all seem to have a tee or a line off a tee that seems to go to atmosphere. Do I need this feature? I was under the understanding that all I am trying to do is delay the pressure going from the intake to the waste gate actuator i.e. cutting the black tubing and just putting an adjustable spring loaded valve. I have searched a ton but dont feel that I am getting all the info I need( I think).


The threaded side will thread into the tee I have for my boost gauge and the barbed side will run a short pice of tubing to the actuator.You can then adjust the knurled side in or out to increase tension on the spring and ball valve therfore adjusting the pressure going to the actuator.Yes,no?

[Satamax]

Hi.

Presure wise, the absolute max without an oil cooler is 900grams per square cm (0.9bar) 700 being on the safe side. I've heard of guys going to 1.2 bar, with oil cooler, bigger rad, new reinforced clutch etc! Lately, i've seen a HZJ7 something with 225BHP on an HDJ80 24V engine! Nicee!

[BURGER]

Originally Posted by Satamax

Hi.

Presure wise, the absolute max without an oil cooler is 900grams per square cm (0.9bar) 700 being on the safe side. I've heard of guys going to 1.2 bar, with oil cooler, bigger rad, new reinforced clutch etc! Lately, i've seen a HZJ7 something with 225BHP on an HDJ80 24V engine! Nicee!

If I convert this 700 grams per cm/2 is the factory setting of 8.5 psi. So you aresaying that a boost controller no matter what will be a detriment to the motor. 900 is 12.8 psi

[troopie]

Max,

Funny thing about that HZJ 74 is that the intercooler has been taken off and the fuel was turned back two full turns. It was alot faster then when you saw it.
BTW did you like the sound it makes, i fabbed up the muffler.

Mark

[brownbear]

that theory sounds not too bad.
the way I have it understood is your are restricitng the airflow. as in an overall restriction, air will still go to the actuator but will have to pass thru a metered orfice. which will lower the px and make the wategate open later, giving higher psi at the top.

Like many guys screw with the actuator arm changing length will change when the wasteagate opens, but I can not see it having much adjustment. That why the air flow to the actuator is better.

if you block it off completely you will make max psi. so partial block will be partial psi.

a spring and ball will work too. it will hit that set psi and open the wastegate. just might be more sudden. might cause bootstrapping(surge). where it will open suddenly instead of gradual, and dump the boost, then it will close, open, close.

where imop a metered orfice will be gradual and hold the waste in a varible posistion.

ok now this is my theory, many others have much more experience with it. I took turbochargers in school for aviation. Don't take this information as golden. try your device and let us know.

I doubt you will hurt anything doing this. you have gauges and will be able to tell if you are surging.

good luck, I may follow very soon with your invention.

[crushers]

actually the spring and ball is gradual. you need the set amount of boost to open it so it will open gradually, it is not the same idea as the blow off valve...
cheers

[brownbear]

Originally Posted by crushers

, it is not the same idea as the blow off valve...
cheers

very well, thats how I imagined the set up. thinking like a blow valve would be bad.

so this is a really low px regulator. is this the same set up Wayne that you did on the 3b II ?

Stick it in there Burger.... can't wait to hear the boost increase.

[brownbear]

if you have : oil temp, boost, pyro gauges. then you are set,

factory settings ie boost and fuel, are done so that they are dummy proof. a driver can do whatever with out damaging the engine. once you adjust anything off original factory you chance doing damage.

but thats why you have the gauges. to be able to monitor the temps and boost. it adds a lot to your driving in the terms of being sure you arn't reaching limits.

But since we don't really know the limits, no one but toyota does. then we are taking what each of us consider as safe risks.

nobody knows for sure that 14 psi is ok or 1250 on the pyro. it has become the norm for us.

you also are running a factory turbo designed for an engine designed for a turbo. you are a little better off than us NA engined trucks that are boosting up beyond our already higher comp ratio.

if you are monitoring the gauges and arn't over temping, then I would sleep well at night.

of course IMOP

[Satamax]

Hi everybody!

Burger, i thought the factory setting was 500Grams above atmo! Then 900 is not too bad! Mark, that was a nicee machine! I liked the sound when he started it, but after, when you're inside, there's too much noise to hear anything!

Bye.

Max.

[Tapage]

Originally Posted by brownbear

nobody knows for sure that 14 psi is ok or 1250 on the pyro. it has become the norm for us.

I thought 1250ºF is the max EGT can your engine handle.

In turbo glide kit for 3B engine, the instructions say specific 1/4 cturn when you install the Turbo kit on a stock 3B engine.

[crushers]

short burst to higher temps are okay, it is long runs at high temps that can do signifigant damage...(how is that for spelling? i should go back to school)

[BURGER]

After looking into it a little more today I have realized that there has to be a port some where between the valve I have shown and the waste gate actuator. If there was no port to atmosphere what would happen is the pressure that you applied to the ball valve(say 12psi) after removing the throttle would decrease but only enough to close the ball valve. The waste gate actuator would then be held open by the residual air pressure between the now closed ball valve and the waste gate actuator.

You need a small hole to bleed off the pressure between the ball valve and the waste gate actuator so that after the throttle is removed there is some where for the pressure to escape to atmosphere,thus allowing the waste gate to close again.

What the ball valve is doing is when you set the ball valve you will actually have to set it a little higher than what your final psi will be as when the ball valve opens there will be some loss out the hole you have to atmosphere. Therefore by setting the ball valve for say 16 psi the actual reading may be only 12 psi because the port is allowing some bleed off. I have read somewhere around a 1/16 is a big enough hole to go with

Now I am no expert and am welcoming any responses as to whether you agree with what I have said. If any one has done one already I would love to hear whether you added this bleed off feature. If not how did you get the pressure to bleed off after closing throttle.?

[crushers]

nope, once you back off on th ethrottle the ball will close and the waste gate will shut...
no residue pressure...

[BURGER]

Originally Posted by crushers

nope, once you back off on th ethrottle the ball will close and the waste gate will shut...
no residue pressure...

Sound good i will try it without a bleed off port. Worse thing that would happen is the boost pressure would stay high at closed throttle.

Why do all these web sites that I read all have a bleed off port. Is the the design for some other type of turbo or only for gas motors?

[crushers]

bleed off port could be a blow off valve...

[Behemoth60]

Originally Posted by crushers

what i would do is sart low say 10 psi, give a try, turn up the fuel, try again.

You're never going to learn much about your engine doing things this way. I say the exact opposite. Start high... maximize the boost. Then, each time you re-install the engine, turn it back 2 or 3 psi. When frequency of engine rebuilds becomes tolerable, leave it set there.

In all seriousness, the design of the 12HT, 1HD-T is very similar to the Cummins, and they're running 15-20 PSI stock, and regularily upgrade to 30-60 lbs for big power. Our engines already have piston cooling, excellent quality rings, pinstons, rods, crank, and an absolutely gi-normous main bearing cap that makes those ever-so-covetted-stongest-you-can-get 4 bolt main caps look like marimba chimes. Even the head gaskets are a multi layer steer (MLS as it's called in the racer crowd, sometimes called a Cometic gasket) which is what the hot rodders are abandoning their o-ringed copper gaskets for. I wouldn't hesitate for a second (there's got to be a good turbo-lag pun in there somewhere) to run 15 to 20 lbs in a 12H-T or 1HD-T. THe ONLY thing I would ever think that needs improvement on a 12H-T/1HD-T to run higher boost might be replacing the head bolts with Studs. But that's it, and for 20lbs, it's not a concern. I would, however, run an intercooler if you're pushing more than 15 lbs for more than 30 seconds at a time (i.e. towing)

An indirect injected engine, however, is a different story. I would jack the boost up on one of those as high as I can too, but when I pull it's blown ass out of the truck, it would be replaced with a direct injection engine.

I really should get my ass in gear and build that super-turbo charged 1HZ and prove once and for all just how much boost you really squeeze through an indirect injected engine. If only I had an FJ80 carcas to install it in....

Peter Straub

[crushers]

LOL!!
the old Peter is back, excellent...
i love a good laugh...
cheers

[BURGER]

[quote=brownbear]if you have : oil temp, boost, pyro gauges. then you are set,

Is oil temp that critical. What kind of temps are we talking here when running more boost. How does it affect it so much?

[brownbear]

I might have had a slip, I have heard guys talk about oil temps. as its the only guage you don't have. You have water temp( although not always revered as accurate) you have oil px. But you don't know oil temp.

It might not be important. I have only two gauges, boost and pyro.

http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugesearch.aspx

it would be nice to know that you are not cooking your oil.

maybe a mech oil px would be better. unless you keep getting high water temp readings I would still use the stock gauge.

maybe others can chime in.

I was thinking of adding a oil temp gauge. On aircraft it's oil temp that we monitor before applying power in the winter. we wait till it's warm enought that it's in the green arc on the instrument.

But again it would be open to discussion what is the appropriate reading and what is considered "MAX" temp.

[crushers]

i like running the mech oil gauge since our factory ones are always fubared for acuracy. it is noice to know if the oil pressure is stable. if the oil pressure drops and stays down then you know the bearings are on their way out (or another problem)...
cheers

[brownbear]

also another way to look at it, if the oil px does drop down, the oil temps could be getting quite high.

[crushers]

this is true...but i was talking all the time.
say you have 60 psi hot at 2000 rpms and 3 months later you have 35 psi hot at 2000 rpms constantly then you now your oil pressure has dropped for a reason... probably you have bagged on it and the bearigns are going the way of the dinosaur...

[brownbear]

what typically is the "range" one of these engines run at? 60 psi? just wondering if I do buy a oil px gauge then do I get the 0-100 or 0-200 gauge?

[denis]

Originally Posted by Behemoth60

I really should get my ass in gear and build that super-turbo charged 1HZ and prove once and for all just how much boost you really squeeze through an indirect injected engine. If only I had an FJ80 carcas to install it in....

Peter Straub

wasn't that engine supposed to go in tippyR ?
I say get it done

[BURGER]

[quote=brownbear]what typically is the "range" one of these engines run at? 60 psi? just wondering if I do buy a oil px gauge then do I get the 0-100 or 0-200 gauge?[/QUOTE

I bought the auto meter sp