Turbo you 70 series...things to consider

[tlcruiserman]

I decided to put this post out here because I am constantly see post on people who want to turbo but have not and are not sure wich way to go. This is more informational and something to consider than anything else. I have turbo'd 3 BJ70's and one BJ42 all having 3B engines of one type or another,and here is what I found.

AXT - A good turbo kit however has some drawbacks. The entry and exit ports are not in very good spots you will have to mess around with the inlet hose and it is very hard to get it in an ideal location on a 70 series (40 series not as bad). The exit port is horizontal and they include a header pipe with a 90degree bend however it is not bent enough to properly clear the firewall on a 70 series, also the compression flange setup to bolt it down is not very ideal. You really need to swap out most if not all of your exhaust if you are running the AXT (according to AXT as well as my own experience) you should run 2.5" all the way back to take advantage of the power from AXT and to help your EGT's. Other than those drawbacks I have found the AXT to give the highest potential output from a kit.

13BT turbo / Custom kit - This is a great setup with smoth power throught the power range. Drawbacks are cost is higher than AXT and availability, and if you are running a 3B you potentially will need to move the oil filter out of the way. On the plus side, it is all toyota and the manifold and turbo are bolt up to the 3b (and 3bII with adapter from luxury imports). Also the entry and exit ports are in a good place, the inlet has a great shot to the air cleaner while the exit port has a cast 90 degree elbow and has a vertical exit very simular to the stock manifold on 3B, flange is standard exhuast 3 bolt flange and you can choose to run near stock exhaust or go bigger. If you go this route you probably want to get a few other parts from a 13BT such as the thermstat housing (has water inlets/outlets for water supply to turbo). Great performance more mods and customizing, than AXT but better setup in the end.

Engine swap to 13BT - This is probably the highest cost depending on where you get a 13BT and what condition it is in. However if you are serious about turbo for you 70 series and plan on keeping it for a long time this option makes a lot of sence and gives you some great upgrades in the process. you get direct injection, turbo, and probably a better shape engine (or at least newer) that your 3B. You can retain your drive train and motor mounts where they are, and the swap is on the mild side compared to others.

Ok just for the really sick out there - 1HZ swap - I am pretty sure this will cost more than a 13BT swap especially if you go with 1HZ and turbo on that. You end up with a 6banger, more power, more torque, cool bragging rights. You will also need to swap out that H55F for another one with the appropriate input shaft, not to mention the motor mounts, fan shroud, and numerous other items. The down side is if you do a 1HZ and do not turbo it you will have the same issues at higher altitudes.

I am sure there are lots of home grown solutions to fit your budget and some work really well and some probably don't work as well as the time and effort that were invested in them. I think there is at least one other kit out there but I have no experience with it so I can not speak to it.

If you are not sure on the priorities of Turbo over lockers or what not just consider where you live, what you mainly use if for and that should help you decide. Always remember you don't need a turbo to wheel your 70

Cheers,

Michael

[Island Moose]

Originally Posted by tlcruiserman

.

13BT turbo / Custom kit - This is a great setup with smoth power throught the power range. Drawbacks are cost is higher than AXT and availability,

Michael

Michael, awesome summary! I am surprised by the above though, I figured a 13BT manifold, rebuilt turbo, intake and exhaust plumbing and oil/water lines would still come in at about 1/3 the price of an AXT kit. I have seen turbochargers selling on eBay for $400 new and $200 in need of bearings. The 13BT manifold can;t be more than $500 new, much less salvaged.

Thoughts?

[crushers]

allow me to step in here for a second,
the 13BT turbo kit that i installed on Mikes truck included everything to do a clean install including the adapter for the 13 II. this included the thermonstate housing for the cooling lines, cooling lines, oil lines in an dout, custom turbo with enlarged compressor turbine, moving the PS resevoir, routing the exhaust. etc.
this is a very clean kit and looks factory, this is where the extra money went. i could have done a "quicky" job for less but i wanted this job to be a sweet setup when all said and done.
cheers

[Radd Cruisers]

Doing another Denco, on the downside this time we are install into t a BJ60 originally a FJ60. Seem to have some clearance issuse swith the heater lines.

Also the intake from airlcleaner must be figured out , nothing came in the kit.

I remember AXT coming with a soft flexiable hose???

Otherwise it comes preassembled on the manifold, bungs already in for Pyro and boost, nice features.

Really quick install if you have not clearance issues, it went into the BJ42 real quick.

This turbo is oil only, no water side.



Rob

[j7addict]

Originally Posted by tlcruiserman

13BT turbo / Custom kit - This is a great setup with smoth power throught the power range. Drawbacks are cost is higher than AXT and availability, and if you are running a 3B you potentially will need to move the oil filter out of the way. On the plus side, it is all toyota and the manifold and turbo are bolt up to the 3b (and 3bII with adapter from luxury imports). Also the entry and exit ports are in a good place, the inlet has a great shot to the air cleaner while the exit port has a cast 90 degree elbow and has a vertical exit very simular to the stock manifold on 3B, flange is standard exhuast 3 bolt flange and you can choose to run near stock exhaust or go bigger. If you go this route you probably want to get a few other parts from a 13BT such as the thermstat housing (has water inlets/outlets for water supply to turbo). Great performance more mods and customizing, than AXT but better setup in the end.

Engine swap to 13BT - This is probably the highest cost depending on where you get a 13BT and what condition it is in. However if you are serious about turbo for you 70 series and plan on keeping it for a long time this option makes a lot of sence and gives you some great upgrades in the process. you get direct injection, turbo, and probably a better shape engine (or at least newer) that your 3B. You can retain your drive train and motor mounts where they are, and the swap is on the mild side compared to others.

Ok just for the really sick out there - 1HZ swap - I am pretty sure this will cost more than a 13BT swap especially if you go with 1HZ and turbo on that. You end up with a 6banger, more power, more torque, cool bragging rights. You will also need to swap out that H55F for another one with the appropriate input shaft, not to mention the motor mounts, fan shroud, and numerous other items. The down side is if you do a 1HZ and do not turbo it you will have the same issues at higher altitudes.

Anyone who has any of these set ups on their BJ70 and wants to sell it, let me know, I'll buy it in a flash. I'll have a diesel with the power I had in my FJ70!

[Island Moose]

Originally Posted by crushers

allow me to step in here for a second,
the 13BT turbo kit that i installed on Mikes truck included everything to do a clean install including the adapter for the 13 II. this included the thermonstate housing for the cooling lines, cooling lines, oil lines in an dout, custom turbo with enlarged compressor turbine, moving the PS resevoir, routing the exhaust. etc.
this is a very clean kit and looks factory, this is where the extra money went. i could have done a "quicky" job for less but i wanted this job to be a sweet setup when all said and done.
cheers

I didn't realize labor was built into Michael's estimation.

[dieseldog]

Radd, I am very familiar with the AXT equipment and install; however, I would like more info about the denco unit. Contact info, costs, etc. Thanks in advance.

[lumpy70]

I am in the process of using a 13B-T manifold (from G & S Cruiserparts) and a Garrett turbo off of a Lebaron (also available for very cheap off of ebay). This setup will be in place within 3 weeks and I will post pictures and performance results as soon as I know.

Craig.

[Radd Cruisers]

Originally Posted by dieseldog

Radd, I am very familiar with the AXT equipment and install; however, I would like more info about the denco unit. Contact info, costs, etc. Thanks in advance.

You will have a PM tomorrow when I am not so dog tired....

Time to hit the sack..

Rob

[dieseldog]

Thanks Rob.

[Island Moose]

Originally Posted by lumpy70

I am in the process of using a 13B-T manifold (from G & S Cruiserparts) and a Garrett turbo off of a Lebaron (also available for very cheap off of ebay). This setup will be in place within 3 weeks and I will post pictures and performance results as soon as I know.

Craig.

In ridiculous detail please...I need to copy your every move.

[Tonito]

Has anyone tried to put a blower/compressor on the 3B (or 3BII), is it possible?

I like blowers more than turbos, and thinking about this for several months (okay - dual-charged would be nice ) ...


have a nice day

[brisveganbj42]

has anyone successfully used a mitsubishi turbo with this upgrade and can also share details?

I know of a not so local turbo joint who might be willing to do R & D on my 3b to develop a kit.. any info I can forward them too will surely help on a good result at an affordable price ..

can others share experiences with performance of the denco / shwitzer turbos?

[Island Moose]

Here's a site that will tempt you to look deeper into superchargers:

http://esuperchargers.com/


Now 2psi seems like a waste of time, but talk about bang for the buck!

....on second thought...you look deeper and find a lot of horse-doodie information about them....

[wesintl]

Originally Posted by Tonito

Has anyone tried to put a blower/compressor on the 3B (or 3BII), is it possible?

I like blowers more than turbos, and thinking about this for several months (okay - dual-charged would be nice ) ...


have a nice day

Just remember with a super charger the engine has to power the compressor. I dunno how well that'd work on a 3B

[tlcruiserman]

Originally Posted by Island Moose

I didn't realize labor was built into Michael's estimation.

Moose, I really calculated effort/time not labor $$ to do the 13BT manifold swap on 3BII. Wayne is exactly correct there were some cheaper things we could have done, but I decided that the ragtop was going to be wheeled and driven a lot and I wanted to keep it as much Toyota as I could. That is also the reason I went with factory cable lockers instead of a cheaper solution.

All things considered getting all the parts from 13bt you will need as well as the adapter and pluming, it woud be an easier task to swap in a 13BT (ok again I am using the comparison of 3B not 3BII). So maybe I should say if I was going to Turbo my only remaining no-turbo 70 series - Blue 87' BJ70 I would go for the 13BT rather than the setup I have on my Raptop 70.

Oddly enough I will have to say that the "quickest" or "most powerful" 70 series with a turbo that I have is still my 86' BJ70 with AXT turbo on it. Why? I have no idea but it also runs the hottest as well (185 normal, 195-205 on hills, with EGT's 800 - 1200, I am running 11lbs of boost).

Cheers,

Michael

[tlcruiserman]

Originally Posted by Tonito

Has anyone tried to put a blower/compressor on the 3B (or 3BII), is it possible?

I like blowers more than turbos, and thinking about this for several months (okay - dual-charged would be nice ) ...


have a nice day

I am not sure why you would want to run a SC over a turbo on a Diesel engine, Temperatures on not usually a problem on diesel's, you get "free" power with the Turbo, and of course they sound cooler and are more prodominent (if you want them too) than the SC. Also I think there are some studies that the turbo will have a longer life than the SC on diesels.

Now I will say that for a gas engine it is more of a toss up. But you have to keep in mind that the gas engines are usually performance engines and the longevity of those engines is not nearly that of the diesel. Just my 2 cents

Cheers,

Michael

[Island Moose]

Check out this kit from Australia. Not a 3B of course, but note where he says "water-cooling not necessary...."

Is this a fact?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....sPageName=WD4V

[crushers]

if you don't wter cool the turbo then it is a good idea to install a turbo timer... necessary for when the egts are over 300F...
cheers

[tlcruiserman]

out of all the turbos I have done I would not recommend one that does not water cool as well. Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,

Michael

[Diesel Dude]

Water Cooling is a good idea on gasoline engines however from everything that I have learn talking to the turbo shops say it is a good idea to avoid water cooling whenever possible due to the fact the running your coolant through a turbo exposes it to extreme temperatures which "burn" your antifreeze causing the heat transfer properties of your coolant to be decreased. As long as you let your turbo cool down for a minute before you shut down you should be okay. Just my .02

[Radd Cruisers]

Originally Posted by Diesel Dude

Water Cooling is a good idea on gasoline engines however from everything that I have learn talking to the turbo shops say it is a good idea to avoid water cooling whenever possible due to the fact the running your coolant through a turbo exposes it to extreme temperatures which "burn" your antifreeze causing the heat transfer properties of your coolant to be decreased. As long as you let your turbo cool down for a minute before you shut down you should be okay. Just my .02

7 out of 8 turbo companies I called about turboing diesels all went with oil only, told me the reason the water side was designed was for gassers?

[Island Moose]

Originally Posted by Diesel Dude

"burn" your antifreeze causing the heat transfer properties of your coolant to be decreased.

Hmmm....you're not going to burn water regardless of what you do to it...and etylene glycol?...not a chemist, but it sounds strange to me. What's happening to your oil if this is the case?

I think the reason some kits don't water-cool is because it's that much more expensive. I just wanted to know if it's necessary or prefered.

[Radd Cruisers]

I think the reason some kits don't water-cool is because it's that much more expensive. I just wanted to know if it's necessary or prefered.[/quote]


I think that adding water cooling into a turbo would not greatly increase cost, you are adding a water jacket and somes seals.

[crushers]

since the ones on the 13BT/2LT are water cooled then it is probably a good thing. that being said the one on y 1HZ is not and i have no concerns about it. i just make sure that the temp is cool enough before i shut her down...