Transfer seal

[Diescipel]

Hey, I've got the leaking transfer/tranny seal problem with the oil getting pumped into the tranny and I'm tired of checking oil levels every week or so and I don't want to blow $60 on the quick fix oil return line. Do it once, Do it right. Could you tell me which of the part #s below is the proper seal? I believe it's #27. And--anything else I should consider replacing etc. when I remove the t-case?

Thanks,
B

[Radd Cruisers]

That looks like the seal.

There is usually a reason this seal is shot, do a rebuild kits in the tranny as it contains all new bearings. Plus address the transfer at the same time.

The reason that seal goes is usually failing bearings, dropping low on the seal and wearing it through.

Just by replacing the seal is a very short term solution.

[crushers]

there are a couple reasons that the seal goes. a seal can go because one of the output seals has leaked and the heat from no lubricaton has "burnt" the seal causing it to wear. it can be normal seal failure with age. i have never seen the imput bearing gone on a 2 piece t/case and i highly doubt that you have either Rob.

unless i see obvious signs of wear in the t/case internals OR extreme high milage or swaping a different set of gears in, i will not recommend that a customer throw away good money on a rebuild kit.

IF you suspect that the t/case has signs of wear or has been abused then buy the kit but you can just buy the 3 seals and the big gasket and be done with it. i can supply the generic part numbers for the 3 seals (if i can still find them), shouldn't cost you more than $60 Canadian.

BTW before putting the rear output flange washer and nut on put a bead of silicone jut over the spline are facing back and squash this with the washer. this will prevent the typical fluid leak along the splines.

Even if you rebuild the case it should only take you about 2-3 hours to complete the task.

HTHs
cheers

[Diescipel]

Well, the truck does have 400k kms on it, but there is no indication of a problem with the t-case. The PO was a gay surfer (I had never even met one in California!), not a wheeler, and I think he only used 4wd at the beach (judging from the sand I've blown out from the frame rails) or in the snow. The t-case shifts way smoother/goes into and out of 4wd way easier than the same in my FJ60.

Wayne, you mention 3 seals and "the big gasket." Do they appear on the above diagram? If so what are the #s there? This is a SOR.com diagram and it's easier to order from them since they are in Cali too.

Thanks,
B

[crushers]

toyota part #:
90311-48002 #24 front output seal,
90311-48003 #15 rear output seal,
90311-48012 #27 imput seal and the
36143-60020 #55 gasket...
cheers

[Jimmy B]

Looks like my beast(89-BJ74) has developed the same problem,only thing is it filling up the transfer and draining the tranny,is it possible to remove the transfer case assembly as a one piece unit or does it have to be taken apart to reach some bolts inside the transfer case mounting the front case to the back of the tranny.
Just curious what does the quick fix set up look like and how does it work,I recall it might be a hose connecting the two,but how?Filler or maybe drain plugs..
Thanks James..

[beanz2]

Originally Posted by Jimmy B

is it possible to remove the transfer case assembly as a one piece unit or does it have to be taken apart to reach some bolts inside the transfer case mounting the front case to the back of the tranny.
Just curious what does the quick fix set up look like and how does it work,I recall it might be a hose connecting the two,but how?Filler or maybe drain plugs..
Thanks James..

It has to be split and the front half has to be removed from the transmission to get to the seal.

The kit is like this:



Dave

[Diescipel]

The quick fix replaces the fill plugs on both the tranny and transfer and connects them with a hose. I don't think it will work for your problem because the oil won't want to flow up hill to the tranny fill hole. But as Wayne notes above, this should only take half a day even for a noob like me, so why not take care of it once and for all and prevent more costly repairs down the road (especially in your case since it's your tranny that is getting starved). I am assuming that all that needs to be done is drain the oil out of both tranny and transfer, unbolt the drive shafts, unbolt the transfer, replace the seals, and then do the reverse. 2 bananas?

B

[beanz2]

Maybe more than two bananas, B. Taking it apart is easy, putting back together is not The output shaft / gear cluster has to be kept in place making sure the high low shifter fork doesn't fall out while you put the back half on, be sure the thrust washers on the idler gear shaft stay in place, etc. It can be done, but don't do it at 11 p.m. the night before you go on a wheeling trip the next day (like I did).

Dave

[Jimmy B]

Thanks (Dave)beanz2 for the pics,looks like a common hydraulic fittings, but I believe NorCalcruizr is right that mine is flowing in the wrong direction and the hose set up wont work in my case.I always get to do things the hard way.Oh well...
Thanks James....

[Diescipel]

Am I just a wuss or does my Aqualu tub make it impossible to get to the upper t-case bolts?

I was ready to tackle this and then I tried getting a wrench on all the bolts. The upper most bolts are impossible to reach--there is no room behind the t-case (body drops down right behind it) for a rachet and extension, and I can't get a wrench on them by going up the side.

[lowenbrau]

You might have to drop the cross member and let the tranny down a bit. That'll make it easier to work on anyway.

I have long believed that a plugged t-case vent will also cause the weird low to high oil transfer. Make sure to put a proper vent in there while you are working on the t-case.

[beanz2]

Wow. Can you lower the tranny-transfer by taking off the crossmember? Use a floorjack.

Dave

[lowenbrau]

Originally Posted by crushers

unless i see obvious signs of wear in the t/case internals OR extreme high milage or swaping a different set of gears in, i will not recommend that a customer throw away good money on a rebuild kit.

Its creapy that I'm agreeing with Wayne so much lately but I have to concur. In 15 years of destroying Land Cruisers I have never actually rebuilt a splitcase. I've pulled worn out parts and replaced them with less worn ones from my parts collection but never actually gone through and rebuilt the thing. I have, however had comments that my drivetrain sounds "like cats and snakes fighting" so take this post with a dash of salt.

[lowenbrau]

Originally Posted by beanz2

Wow. Can you lower the tranny-transfer by taking off the crossmember? Use a floorjack.

Dave

Well, you have to take the skidplate off first

[Diescipel]

Okay so I am a wuss. But I'll have to wait to get to my bro's and use his floorjack. This doesn't do anything weird to the engine mounts or anything???

On the diagram in the 1st post, can you locate the part # for the t-case vent? Thanks. --"breather plug" #6??? or "STC Breather" #59???

[lowenbrau]

#6, yup

Motor mounts are fine with a bit of twisting but have a look to make sure the head isn't smashing anything into the firewall.

[beanz2]

No, the mounts should be OK. It's part number 6.

Dave

[beanz2]

Originally Posted by lowenbrau

Well, you have to take the skidplate off first

Yes, duhh

[Jimmy B]

Sorry to jump in here again,just wondering what kind of vent-hose you replace the stock vent with,is it ok to replace it with a 90 degree fitting(pipe thread with barbed hose end) and run a hose to a higher point.
What is this STC breather,#59 for and will it cause fluid transfer.
Tried to do my tranny seal on the weekend but unfortunately I was given the wrong seal,the part # on the bag was right but it contained the wrong seal,knew I was in trouble when I opened the bag,so continued next weekend.
Just to be sure the 90311-48012 main seal should contain a spring on each side of the seal,yes?? like 2 regular wheel bearing or crank seals placed face to face,# side to # side.
NorCalCruzr there are a couple of o-rings that I found that might need to be replaced also,2 on the idler shaft and 1 on the tranny output shaft sitting just between the tranny shaft bearing and the gear the main seal runs on.I think if this o-ring or the one on the front of the idler shaft is worn or damaged it might also cause a leak,very slowly but one none the less..
Thanks James.....

[beanz2]

No, #59 on the SOR pic is the 5th gear oiler nipple. It only directs splashing oil to the 5th gear if using the H55f. No transferring from tranny to transfer possible, as there is no hole where the oiler fits.

IIRC the seal I used only had a spring on one side, but I may be wrong here.

The breather has a spring loaded cap that when removed leaves a short pipe with a flare at the end. A little short but if you put a hose and clamp it tight, it will hold it in place just fine.

Dave

[Radd Cruisers]

[quote=crushers]there are a couple reasons that the seal goes. a seal can go because one of the output seals has leaked and the heat from no lubricaton has "burnt" the seal causing it to wear. it can be normal seal failure with age. i have never seen the imput bearing gone on a 2 piece t/case and i highly doubt that you have either Rob.



I have not seen total failure of the bearing, but a worn bearing allowing the shaft to drop into the seal a few thousands of a inch allows oil through the seal.

Generally the t-case bearings are the most worn as they are always under load.

The other cause is also lack of oil and the seal will deeply groove the shaft also allowing oil through, speedy slee is a possible fix.

One Tcase we opened up looked as though someone had taken a tiger torch and heat it up blackening the entire inners. Low oil over a period of time?

Lets face it, like coolant, diffs etc, they are regarded by the less mechanically incline to be a lifetime fluid............ although we know otherwise.

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by Jimmy B

Sorry to jump in here again,just wondering what kind of vent-hose you replace the stock vent with,is it ok to replace it with a 90 degree fitting(pipe thread with barbed hose end) and run a hose to a higher point.
What is this STC breather,#59 for and will it cause fluid transfer.
Tried to do my tranny seal on the weekend but unfortunately I was given the wrong seal,the part # on the bag was right but it contained the wrong seal,knew I was in trouble when I opened the bag,so continued next weekend.
Just to be sure the 90311-48012 main seal should contain a spring on each side of the seal,yes?? like 2 regular wheel bearing or crank seals placed face to face,# side to # side.
NorCalCruzr there are a couple of o-rings that I found that might need to be replaced also,2 on the idler shaft and 1 on the tranny output shaft sitting just between the tranny shaft bearing and the gear the main seal runs on.I think if this o-ring or the one on the front of the idler shaft is worn or damaged it might also cause a leak,very slowly but one none the less..
Thanks James.....

The seal is a normal looking seal. Nothing with two springs or any such strange contraption. I'd do the idler shaft "O" rings as well just to be safe. If you're going to redo the transfer case went you'll want to find a combo 90 degree bend with a thread for the case and a barb for the hose. There isn't enough room for several fittings (at least there wasn't on my '82 BJ60 with an H55 swap).

As far as wear in the transfer, I have had to replace the idler shaft and bearings on mine once but that was likely due to the thrust washers coming out of position during an earlier reassembly. Make SURE the little detents in the thrust washers are in the detents in the case.

[crushers]

i had a customer coming through Calgary from the east. he had his fluids "checked" at one of those minute lube (generic term) and was given the okay. turned out they could not get the fill plug loose on the t/case so they just assumed it was okay and away he went. the truck stopped dead in Strathmore east of the city and that is when he called me.
i told him to push in the clutch and start the engine which it fired right up, now let out the clutch and the engien died.
we got it towed here and i could smell the t/case from meters away. over the pit and apart came the t/case. the findings were the gears were black and MELTED. the teeth were melted round and there were blobs of metal in the case.
it was the worse case i had ever seen. i kept a sample gear for years on the shelf.

i have never seen the imput bearing worn and even in this case the upper imput bearing still looked fine. there is very little load on that particular bearing.

[Diescipel]

Not sure I get everything people are saying about the t-case breather--do you just replace the part (#6), or do you modify it? Sounds like people are describing a modification.

B

[Radd Cruisers]

Originally Posted by crushers

there are a couple reasons that the seal goes. a seal can go because one of the output seals has leaked and the heat from no lubricaton has "burnt" the seal causing it to wear. it can be normal seal failure with age. i have never seen the imput bearing gone on a 2 piece t/case and i highly doubt that you have either Rob.

unless i see obvious signs of wear in the t/case internals OR extreme high milage or swaping a different set of gears in, i will not recommend that a customer throw away good money on a rebuild kit.




Even if you rebuild the case it should only take you about 2-3 hours to complete the task.

HTHs
cheers

Quite possibly heat would be a good source of seal failure, I would agree with that judgement.

If you install the seal and it goes again shortly afterword, what would be the cause then?

Usually thier is a cause to the failure, transfering the tranny fluid to fill the transfercase?

All the H55s and tcase I have rebuilt had high milage, guess this is why I found the most wear in the Tcase. Severe wear on the idler bearings in the tcase.

Guess that is why the kits come with new idler shaft also, one big chunk of steel.

[crushers]

i would guess poor install if the seal goes right away or a poor quaility seal...
the idler bearings and shaft have the most load place upon them so yes they can wear...
cheers

[beanz2]

Originally Posted by NorCalCruzr

Not sure I get everything people are saying about the t-case breather--do you just replace the part (#6), or do you modify it? Sounds like people are describing a modification.

B

Yes, B, modify it. I don't think the case is threaded at the vent.

Dave