Solar Converter - Final Setup.

[Stone]

After fooling around with relay circuits and finally deciding that the simpler the better, I came up with the final setup to allow me to switch my Solar Converter from Load Balance to Convert utilizing a switch. Greg B. suggested that I hardwire the white 12v output of the Solar Converter with the fusebox, and splice in a toggle switch between that wire and the low side battery (+) pole. This would provide uninterupted current to the 12v fusebox while allowing me to switch back and forth between the two modes.

I changed all of my 12v wiring supplying the fusebox with 10 gauge wire. For a switch, I decided to get a nice on/off battery switch from a local marina because they are corrosion proof, heavy duty, and can handle way more current than I'll ever need (mine's good for 250A continuous). I found a spot on my firewall for the switch:


I also cleaned up all the wiring so that there are no exposed wires from the converter, switch or fusebox.


The Solar Converter remains in its original position, minus all the extra circuitry and relays that I added.


Everything tests out okay, and I'm finally happy with the setup. Cheers.

[LandCruiserPhil]

Stone how about more info or a link on your total set-up. What size panel are you running?

[Stone]

I have a 6-gang fuseblock that uses the regular automotive ATC fuses in my passenger side kick panel. I've used up 5 slots already...waiting for my Hella 8-gang to arrive. I don't really have a link to the whole setup, just ask any questions you may have. Cheers.

[dieselbigot]

So why the switch to change modes? I'm curious because I also bought a Solar from GB and I originally had it set up as a converter....I'm about to rip everything out and start over as I had a short somewhere and was losing power to all my 12v accessories (simultaneously). The plan was to set up the Solar as a balancer and just run all my 12v crap off the 12v side battery....I could clean up all the bad wiring jobs at the same time. I'm interested to hear your thoughts before I embark on mine...

Brett

[Greg_B]

The Solar Converters strength is also its weakness. Let me explain:

The Solar Converter hooked up in load balance mode is designed to sense any difference in battery voltage, and it will shunt power from the opposite battery to the one being drawn from. This allows you to take temporary large draws, or tap off the low side battery for minor draws. The Solar converter will then sense the imbalance and work at equalizing the batteries. In my daily driver in a mild climate I had not encountered any issues, until Dec. There are a few that have experienced similar issues, and also some cold climate issues, or two batteries not being equal in strength...even if purchased at the same time.

(This colder weather theory is mine, however I think it makes sense...if anyone has any other thoughts please let me know) The colder the weather the more a battery is stressed. No two batteries are totally equal, so it is appearing the Solar Converter is sensing the "weaker" battery and trying to maintain it with the stronger one (remember the Solar Converter works bi-directional). Don't run your truck for a few days, and one day you go out and both batteries are weak...no start.

The other issue I have seen is two batteries the same series (24) but bought at different times, or are different manufactures. The Solar Converter will again sense any imbalance, and draw down the higher battery, trying to maintain the weaker one. If you daily drive your vehicle, and the weather is not stressing your system, this does not always show up, until you leave you vehicle parked a few days...

I have a BJ42 that has two healthy batteries: Same series, same brand. One sits at 12.3V and the other at 12.6V. They will sit for months, no problem. Hook up the Solar Converter in Load Balance, and this difference is sensed, and with-in a week, the truck will not start as the batteries will read equal, but below 12V. This is not a daily driver, so when I do head out to run it up to operating temp, it's a major PITA to have to jump it. When I am driving it in the summer, this is not an issue at all and it stays in load balance mode.

My BJ74 has two new Optima's. I daily drive it. It has been hooked up in load balance for almost a year...no issues. I was unable to drive for almost 3 weeks in December, and when I checked the batteries after it would not start they were balanced, however at 4.5V.

Stones solution will allow someone to run the vehicle in load balance mode when in daily use, allow temporary heavy draw of one battery, and work on a 20amp minute, balancing the batteries. When cold weather arrives, when you know you are not going to be using the vehicle for a while, or for any other unforeseen issue, you can switch to simple 24V to 12V convert mode, with no impact on preset memory, alarm systems, or any other electrical appliance you may have set up.

You can trickle charge one 12V battery in the 24V battery string with the Solar Converter in load balance mode. It will equalize the charge between the two batteries. I have not used one of the cheap trickle charge solar panels that you hook into your cig lighter (my BJ74 lighter has been switched to 12V) however this appears to be an attractive option that opens up possibilities when away from town.

I would also run the green and red LED's into the cab to monitor the converter.

Also remember when you take the converter in or out of the system you MUST hook up and unhook the Solar Converter in the correct sequence so the circutry inside does not pop a fuse to self-protect. I would still maintain insulated spade connectors to expidite this, for those jobs when batteries need to come out, or be disconnected for any reason, as Stone has done in his install.

Having the ability to switch back and forth between modes with no impact cleans up the system. My solution was to use a quick disconnect insulated spade connector, or a toggle switch. Stone solution is much more elegant.

None of this takes away that the Solar Converter is an excellent 24V to 12V converter in simple convert mode, supplying 20 amps of clean power, and at 96% efficiency. If it is not processing power there is no loss except for the 17 ma (.017 A) drawn by the unit from the 24 V side

Thanks Stone!

gb

[dieselbigot]

excellent reply GB...this is great info for all w/ 24v rigs...I think I might have to steal Stones idea

[Stone]

That's what I posted it up for.

[crushers]

excelLent, thanks Greg and Stoney. what is that switch you have installed?
is the solar company thinking of adapting the idea in the next generation solar converters.
can you sned me a diagram stoney, just so i am completely on track, i will be installing this in some of the customers trucks...
cheers

[Stickboy]

Hi stoney,

i think this is a good thread along with the others for the tech links section. if you'd like and want to send me all the pics/info/schematics i'll put them into a pdf for publication....

some definate converter pioneering going on here....
-mike

[Stone]

Hi Wayne, Mike:

I'm working the next three days...I might have time tomorrow or Sunday to do it. Will send it to you then. Cheers.

Stone

[crushers]

o problem, wheeling tomorrow and won't be near a computator till monday evening... no rush...
thanks

[Greg_B]

Further to my prior post suggesting people run the red and green LED's into the cab, and to add more information to this thread:

Hooked up in load balance mode it is possible to run a battery down if a fuse has popped in the converter for any reason (someone else working on your vehicle; simply taking the ground strap off the low side battery will cause the converter to protect the circuitry). You will be drawing from the low side battery and not know it. For this reason the red LED was added.

The red LED will stay off when hooked in load balance mode, unless the batteries are more then 5% off the trimmed value. Run the LED's into you cab for a constant visual.

If you have it hooked up in simple convert mode, your 12V accessories will not work and you will know to investigate

I know some people have placed a diode between the low side battery and the fuse strip. This will act as a check, and not allow current from the battery to the fuse strip, however will allow current to the low side battery (1) (this assumes the 12V converted line goes from the converter to the fuse strip, then loops back to the low side positive battery pole) (2) (typically the one that is marginally down on the 24V cruiser set-up is the low side battery). I don't particularly like this method as it takes away the bi-directional feature, however it has worked for some.

I lump users into two basic categories: Plug and Play, or tinkerers.

If you want plug and play then forget about it...hook it up in 24V to 12V only.

If you want to tinker, are doing your own install, and understand the system, then tinker to your hearts delight!



hth's

gb

[Stone]

Hey Greg:

You just got me thinking about another added advantage to wiring up the Solar Converter the way I've done with the large marine battery switch.

Since the switch basically takes the lowside battery out of the picture in the "Off" position, and forces the fuse panel to draw 12v from the white lead of the Solar Converter...an easy way to check if you've blown a fuse is to simply flip the battery switch to "Off" and see if your 12v accessories still work!

It's a simple and quick peace of mind thing that you can do if you have any reason to think that the fuse might have been popped. Maybe you were tinkering with the electrical or someone else has. No disconnecting wires or having to take off the cover of the converter.

If you have quick connects on your three leads from the Converter, you can also take the white lead apart and see if there's voltage coming from it.

Cheers.

[Stone]

Made up a simple diagram to how I ended up wiring my system:


Cheers.

[crushers]

Wicked, thanks Stoney...
Wayne "who should be in bed but is too darn excited about "ice" wheeling tomorrow to sleep"
cheers

[beauh]

I have a question about my systme. I have a HJ61 with dual batteries. One battery is being run down by a direct tap for a CD player. (I know this is a no no, but my converter is coming in tomorrow.) Anyway, I'm planning on using the Solar converter in converter mode only. Do I need to replace both my batteries? Or will the lesser/drained battery eventually "catch up" after I put the converter in?
Beau

[Stone]

Beauh: Unless you have the Solar Converter in "Load Balance" mode, it won't equalize your batteries. If one battery is already weaker than the other, and you have the Solar Converter in "Step Down Convert" mode, then the charge from the alternator will have some resistance going through your battery bank with the low side battery being weak. Once the imbalance worsens, you will find that your low side battery will be drawn down and the high side battery will boil over (cook). You best bet is to start with two identical fresh batteries and never to tap 12v power from the low side battery.

[Greg_B]

You could try swapping the batteries from side to side when you install the converter in step-down mode. If it is not significantly weakened, you may well be fine.

As Stone says, it is "best" to start with two identical batteries.

I've heard tell that you can charge both batteries hot, which will balance them. Shhot me a note at gbowie@uniserve.com and I will e-mail you an info sheet on the converter I have put together.

Regards

gb

[Technikev]

Hey Stone, correct me if I'm wrong in my thinking on this, but there is something that has been sort of bugging me since i read this post a while ago: instead of using a manual switch like you did, couldn't a person instead use a relay and hook the wire up to the normally open leads like you did with the switch and then when you turned the key to the run position, it would close the relay and complete that circuit, switching over to battery equalization instead of 12 volt conversion. This would just require one extra wire off the ignition on circuit to switch the relay. I would use 24 v to avoid any possible goofyness when switching the 12 v source.

That way one wouldn't have to remember to switch the switch to equalization when driving or back off when not using the vehicle for a long duration. Just a thought, but would like someone else's opinion on this.

And how bout puting "24 volt electrics" as a topic in the FAQ section? I know it messed up my mind initially when looking into the cruiser world. This post is certainly helpful in setting up a no brainer solar converter system. Again, just a thought...

-Kevin

[beauh]

hey guys, thanks for the info/advice. I think what I'll do is run the Solar in "balance" mode and tap off the one battery for my CD player and amp. Is that a good idea? or should I use it in convert mode for my CD and amp? (max 20amp draw).

[Canuck]

If you're not running a heavy load, like more than 10 to 15 amps, would a load balancing set-up be required? The only 12V devices I want to run are the car stereo and an alarm system. Both would of course require a constant 12V supply.

How about something like this device that has a provision for a low current output already designed in?

http://www.powerstream.com/dc1-ap-notes.htm

[Stone]

Kevin: Yup, a relay would work for sure. I try to minimize the number of relays that I have in my truck, simply because they're just another electrical gadget to go wrong. But if you have a high quality 24v relay, why not?

Beauh: Running a CD player and an alarm system from the Solar Converter in Convert mode is no problem at all. The two devices won't be on at the same time anyway. If you go Load Balance, just remember that if you leave your truck parked for a long period of time, and there is even a slight imbalance in your batteries, that you will probably come back to a couple of drawn fown batteries that won't start your truck.

Canuck: Load balancing won't be needed for light loads like the ones that you require. It's the simplest and most reliable way of getting 12v power from your Solar Converter.

[beauh]

thanks Stone.

[Radd Cruisers]

Nice read.

Clean install, I have been recently using crimp fittings less the plastic shielding. What I have been purchasing is the none covered units then shrink tubing it after, giving a second way to hold the connection together.

I use to crimp and solder, the argument for not doing this by one person was heating the wire and making it brittle??

Anyways from more of a production like standpoint like the factory did, I use this method of using a high quality crimping tool and bare connectors with shrink tube.

Sorry for the highjack.

Rob

[Greg_B]

I'm still a solder and shrink tubing guy. Will crimp fit in a pinch...

We just got new price points on the Solar Converter, and are passing on the savings:http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.p...269#post605269 Post #17.

I also still say:

"If you want plug and play then forget about it...hook it up in 24V to 12V only."

"If you want to tinker, are doing your own install, and understand the system, then tinker to your hearts delight!"

hth's

gb