Removed ACSD, but still have idling issues, any ideas???

LanceCruiser · 11-04-09, 01:08 AM

Hey, everyone.

I recently had some idling problems with my 1hd-t. My engine would idle normal when cold around 600 to 650 RPM, but after a minute or so, my idle would ramp up to 1000 RPM. When I put it into reverse or drive it would bring the RPM down to 800 RPM, but had a busy feel to the engine.

I had the ACSD removed and that hepled a bit, but I still have something governing my idle? I do notice I have some leakage around some of the injectors. I have read some other posts that it could be a diaphram problem. My engine now will run rough, and sometimes my pump will get loud and clatter, and then other times run smooth and quiet? I do notice power loss sometimes, it can happen when it idles rough, or when it's running smooth.

I tried some 2 stoke oil to quiet down the IP, when it gets loud, and that worked for a bit, but eventually started to get loud again, even with the 2 stroke oil in the fuel. I bought some intake cleaner, since I had a lot oil in my blow-by. I sprayed light shots of intake cleaner through the blow-by port in the air filter, and that quieted the IP noise down right away? I do have to warn that if you spray too much at once, you will get some knocking. I just stick to light shots, with the engine idling, and let the idle come back down to rest before the next shot. I will be having my IP, and the leaks looked at, next week. But if anybody has any suggestions that would be appreciated.

Thanks.

roscoFJ73 · 11-04-09, 01:41 AM

I would first fix the leaking around the injectors,there is a seat and a washer for each injector.
ToyoDIY.com

The pump noise sounds like its half full of fuel. Some try a an electric lift pump fitted down near the tank,but IMO your whole pump probably needs looking at.
The noise could also be the timer piston rattling around.It eventually wrecks the casing and adds another $600 to the bill.
I dont think these have a leather diaphragm like the the older pumps that gets a hole in it.

sandcruiser · 11-04-09, 05:58 PM

search for "lift pump" several people have added 12v pumps to help reduce effort on the IP.

where is the idle set right now (what rpm?)
have you tried changing the fuel filter? it might be that simple-- just a plugged filter.

LanceCruiser · 11-05-09, 02:46 AM

When I had the ACSD removed, and the blanking plate installed. We found some metal filings around the opening, and inside the overflow screw, but the pin on the ACSD was still intact. We purged the pump, with the plate off to remove any other filings. I have removed the plate, since then to purge the pump, and I have not found any filings in the fuel or the overflow screw, since the ACSD removal.

I have also changed the fuel filter, and my Idle usually sits around 600 to 700 RPM, when warmed up. With the colder mornings now, the RPMs drops to 200. I have to use the throttle lock to help keep the revs up for about a minute, until it warms up a bit.

I just find it kind of strange, that my engine will perform differently everyday, kind of like Jekyl and Hyde. I hope that it's not going to make it hard to find the problem. If it was consistent it might be easier. At the moment, it has been running well, and I have notice that it affects on how well my auto transmission shifts, and engages. I guess I will find out soon, when I bring it into the injection shop, and have the timing looked at, and get the parts for the leaks. I will have a look into lift pump. Thanks for all the information.

sandcruiser · 11-05-09, 09:41 AM

I'm not sure, but I think 700 is too low for a slushbox transmission. Yup, just checked the FSM-- page EM-27 -- HD-T w/ AT should be 750-850 at idle, 800 being "ideal"

Does your IP have the A/C idle-up circuit? (it's vacuum actuated). Maybe that is the issue?
With the AC on, the idle speed should be at 950.

Ie: if the AC was on when they set the idle, then it will drop almost 200rpm when the AC is off. Mine had that issue when I bought it. AC off the idle would drop to a lope- down by 550 or so. AC on, it would idle around 750 which is ok for an MT.

search for Wallbro pump, also, several people have reported that adding a pusher pump near the tank can really help the IP run more smoothly, especially at idle speeds.

that 200rpm when cold makes me think that you might have blockage in your lines. When the fuel gets colder, it is thicker, and so can't get through as easily.

You could try disconnecting the fuel line @ the IP and also @ the tank, then blast it out w/ compressed air from the engine side. That will blow a lot of diesel, and possibly any crud, out of the line. That would also be a good time to install the new pusher pump near the tank to help out.

Finally: I don't know if the diesels have a prefilter in the tank like the gassers do, but if so, there was a thread recently about those filters and how dirty they get over 20 years or so.

sailor · 11-05-09, 04:08 PM

Hey Lance- Sandcruiser has some good advice there. Can't hurt to blow out the line and maybe the tank pick up tube (if it applies?) Mine is Idling around 550 but still smooth enough. I will tweak it back to 800 and see what happens. You could run a line from a container to the fuel pump inlet and hold the container up above the motor to create a head or positive pressure to the pump as an experiment...

sandcruiser · 11-06-09, 06:27 AM

side note: on my hd-t the idle gets much MUCH smoother at 700 than 600. Night and day. so 100 rpm really can make a difference.

sailor · 11-06-09, 05:15 PM

oh and mine seems to idle lower when parked nose up... Is it harder for the IP to 'pull' the fuel when it is uphill? Makes sense to me. If you need a hand I've got some time, pm me-

lshobie · 11-06-09, 08:25 PM

if you had metal fillings in the IP then that is bad, the tolerances in the pump don't allow for any foreign matter. I'd pull it and get it looked at - the 1hdt pump is expensive if you trash it.

LanceCruiser · 11-07-09, 03:10 AM

Originally, when I bought it was idling at 850 rpm, but when I would shut it down, it would shake very rough. When I lowered it down to 600 rpm, it was a lot smoother shut down. I do have the AC idle up circuit, but it happens without the AC on and, plus my AC has a leak, so I get no benefit from it at the moment. I do notice when I purge the IP, the manual pump on top of the filter seems to push alot of fuel through it. I'm going to look into the lift pump as a future mod. I will see sailor at the Cruiser meeting next week, and we can talk about the installation.

I'm going to have Raj at Fred Holmes Fuel Injection take a look at my Injection Pump next week. He showed me some other things to look at, when we removed my ACSD. I don't think I would have looked at it that close, and I would have put the blanking plate on, without removing those little metal flakes, since the ACSD was still intact. I think we will be pulling the pump, so he can take a closer look at it, and test it. I will get him to take a look at all your suggestions. I sure hope nothing gets worse from here.

Thanks for all your input everyone.

sailor · 11-08-09, 12:41 AM

Good luck bro!

9180ltd · 11-08-09, 09:58 PM

Mine seems to idle a little diferent from time to time as well but not as yours. On the shut down shakes , i find this to be normal, having owned diesels in the past (cummins) some stop so quickly (500psi will do that when the fuel stops) that other accessories wont stop as fast as the engine creating a belt squeal and it also would visibly shake the 3/4 ton truck from side to side.

sailor · 11-08-09, 10:41 PM

Yep- same as marine diesels- big shake at shutdown and my 81 has quite a shudder as it shuts off as well.

roscoFJ73 · 11-09-09, 04:00 AM

They dont normally do it. It could be something like the fuel cut solenoid not shutting all the fuel off or even bad engine mounts.

Enigma · 11-09-09, 01:56 PM

Weird, mine idles at 500 hot or cold.

LanceCruiser · 11-15-09, 04:21 PM

I took my truck into Fred Holmes, so Raj could take a closer look at my pump. I was hoping for a cheap fix, but in the back of my mind I had a feeling it wasn't going to be that easy. When he inspected it, he still found some fine metal particles in the overflow screw. I guess when I did a check on it before, I was looking for bigger particles of metal. So in short I had my IP rebuilt. Yeah not a cheap fix, but when he took it apart, all of the seals were getting hard, with wear marks on some of the shafts, and other parts. I also had a leak under the diaphram, it was all wet with old brown fuel, Raj said that area should be dry. So everything in my pump has been changed with better seals, parts that had scoring on them were replaced, except for the main shaft had a bit of scoring on it, but he was able to plish it out. It looks like a new pump now, so everything has been reset to spec, the timing and my idle. He replaced the seals around the injectors, so they shouldn't be weeping anymore. I still have to clean the area dry to make sure. He said my injectors nozzle are going too, but I can still get another 6 months to a year before they get really bad. I don't think they have ever been changed, and it's about 190,000km on the clock. he also replaced my tach relay, since it started to jump all over, without the idle changing tune.

Right now I'm still monitoring how it performs. My idle at cold seems to start off now at around 550 rpm and after 30 seconds it moves up to around 750, and once it's fully warmed up it sits at 900 rpm. My shut down is still a buit rough with a bit of a rattle that sounds like marbles. I had sailor listen to it at the meeting, and one of my spotlight retainer rings is loose, so it accentuated the rattle at shut off. I have done a couple of shut offs, and it still has that rattle to it, even if I am holding the spotlight from shaking. It has never rattled like that before, so I'm wondering if something has come loose at the crank??? I did show this to Raj, but when he had a listen to it, it didn't rattle as bad. He did mention the same thing roscoFJ73 said about fuel cut solenoid not shutting all the fuel off, and we could try a test with it that bypasses this, to see if it's working.

There is also another thing I also notice, since the problems started. I know this may not be the most accurate way of monitoring exhaust temp. I don't have an EGT sensor yet, but I have been using the automaic timer on my turbo timer to get an idea of my running exhaust temp. The hotter it gets the more seconds it adds to the cool off time. This happened a little after I started having problems. I had some work done on it, and I've notice this sound of something blowing, but muffled, like there is a sock stuck in my intake, were normally I could hear the turbo spooling whistle. I kind of chalked it up to my half rotting steel exhaust, with holes. I figured something must have come loose in the stock resonator and was blocking my exhaust flow. So I replaced my whole exhaust system from the turbo back, with 3" pressure bent pipe (not mandrel bent

) and a Aeroturbine freeflow muffler, so nothing should blocking my exhaust. Now that my pump has been rebuilt, I thought maybe the pump was doing something to make my exhaust run hotter, but that not it. I do hear this sound on the exhaust side, but I can hear the turbo whistle at the tail pipe? The strange thing is, there was one day, a few weeks ago that my truck ran perfect, the way it did before eveything happened. It was smooth and quiet, it idled fine, it even shut off nice too, I also didn't hear that muffled sound, but I could hear the turbo more clearly, and it ran cooler from what it showed on the turbo time??? Normally when I'm driving 80km/hr, my TT reads around 30 sec. Now the TT sits at 1 min. at that speed???

I'm going to give my battery terminals a good cleaning. This is another story. When I did my first cold start after the rebuild, the tach jumped from 550rpm to 750rpm, without a change in tune, and the tach relay is brand new? I was told when the terminals get dirty, all the dummy lights start to flicker. This happened to me on my trip to Winchester Bay Oregon, a bit on the way through Seattle, but did a rest stopped, it was fine the reast of the way there. On the way back half way home it started to do it when I was trying to maintain 110Km/hr, so I had to slow down for it to stop. My voltmeter needle was sitting on the high side. It did it for a bit when I was back home, but then never happened since? Getting back to the beginnig, maybe it might be something electrical???

Sorry, if it sounds like knit picking, but it hard not to try and figure things out, even if it costs me to do it. I know how it performed before, and I want to get it back to the way it was.