2L-TE Engine Mystery

KlemWild · 10-31-09, 09:39 AM

Hi,

I have a 1990 Hilux Surf with a 2L-TE that has me totally baffled.

About 2 weeks ago I had an instance where the engine stumbled when I turned on the airconditioning to removed fogging on the windshield. It immediately lost power and was not generating any electricity or power steering/brake. I turned off the air con and limped home.

On inspection I found that the crank pulley and all the belts were not turning while the engine was running. My mechanic pulled it apart and the crank pulley had been broken at the keyway. Everything else seemed fine. I found a used pulley had it installed. Everything appeared to work fine after this. The engine started well, idled well and would rev well while stopped.

I took it for a drive after being fixed and found that there was absolutely no power and the engine hardley wanted to rev. My initial thoughts were that the engine wasn't getting any boost from the turbo. I checked all the plenums, intake manifold, exhaust manifold, wastegate actuator and wastegate, and it appears, from the intake side, that the turbo is turning well.

I have a couple of engine codes, 4 and 12. I understand these to be the coolant sensor and the timer control valve for fuel.

Given the very sluggish response, no power and inability to rev I'm guessing the engine isn't getting fuel under load. But I'm just guessing.

I would appreciate some help from the collective wisdom I've found here previously.

Karl in Courtenay

DanS HJ-45 · 10-31-09, 09:50 AM

Now, you said that none of the belts were turning.... that means the water pump wasn't turning either (it is on the same belts as the alternator). If that was the case, then it most certainly overheated and you may have fried the head or head gasket. Does your oil look milky?

The heads on the 2LT-E cracks at operating temperature, let alone with some overheating. I'd unfortunately put my money on that being your problem.

The only other thing I can think of would be that the shock that killed your pulley also messed up the IP or timing belt.

Dan

KlemWild · 10-31-09, 12:28 PM

Hi Dan,

Thanks for this. I don't think it could have overheated as time running was less than 5 minutes. It takes about 2 minutes from where I live to get to the mechanic so getting it to him probably wasn't very hot either. The oil is black as coal. The head was changed to a 3L about 50K ago and the water pump and timing belt were changed in the summer. I also had the rad recored at time as well.

Is there any other way to check for head problems? Would it rev to 3500 or 4000 while standing still?

Karl

DanS HJ-45 · 10-31-09, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KlemWild

Hi Dan,

Thanks for this. I don't think it could have overheated as time running was less than 5 minutes. It takes about 2 minutes from where I live to get to the mechanic so getting it to him probably wasn't very hot either. The oil is black as coal. The head was changed to a 3L about 50K ago and the water pump and timing belt were changed in the summer. I also had the rad recored at time as well.

5 minutes is plenty of time to overheat it, especially if the engine is already warm. Even with the T-stat closed, the water really should at least circulate through the engine block to avoid hot spots.

Quote:

Is there any other way to check for head problems? Would it rev to 3500 or 4000 while standing still?

Karl

I don't know. I'll try with mine maybe this afternoon when I head up to the shop. That sounds loud.

Have you done a compression check? That might show a head problem, but it also might not.

Dan

KlemWild · 10-31-09, 05:47 PM

Hi Dan,

I haven't done a compression check but it seems to run well at idle and under initial load (to 2000 rpm). The engine check codes I've gotten seem to indicate something with the fuel system. I'm kinda leaning toward the fuel filter being clogged. How often should these be changed? Any idea what a timer control valve is?

Thanks,

Karl

pappy · 11-01-09, 12:35 PM

This would probably get more hits in the Diesel Section. I can move it if you want.

Da' Deputy Sheriff

KlemWild · 11-01-09, 01:34 PM

Thanks for the offer. If it would get more hits that would be great. Please move it.

Karl

simonliew · 11-01-09, 04:40 PM

Hi,if i remember right,the waterpump on the 2LT-E is driven by the timingbelt,not the otherbelts.
simon

DanS HJ-45 · 11-01-09, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simonliew

Hi,if i remember right,the waterpump on the 2LT-E is driven by the timingbelt,not the otherbelts.
simon

Nope. Definitely not the timing belt.
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It's the double V-belts off the crank pulley and then to the alternator/vac pump that turns the water pump (at least on my 2LT-E)

As to your question on the fuel filter.... My check engine light comes on if the filter is clogged. It also doesn't make power like that at all.

I have an el-cheapo screen filter before my Toyota fuel filter, and I clean that at every oil change. The fuel filter I'm changing about every 25,000 miles or so.

Dan

KlemWild · 11-01-09, 05:26 PM

Thanks Dan,

I guess I should start with the easy stuff. I'll change the fuel filter, as I don't know the last time it was changed. Does anyone know who has one on Vancouver Island? Maybe up island?

Karl

roscoFJ73 · 11-01-09, 06:29 PM

Does the 2LTE have some kind of sensor that sends a signal to the fuel pump from the crankshaft?
I seem to remember someone having the same kind of symptoms.
I was wondering of it was forgotten in the pulley change over.
The engine will run but its as sluggish as hell.

Radd Cruisers · 11-01-09, 07:33 PM

Given the codes and the lack of power/revving I would say that the lift pump is dead. This is not uncommon in the rotary pumps when they get old or have a fuel starvation problem.

I would, however, check your fuel filter first. I like to see these getting changed once a year at least.

I have injection pumps in stock.

~John

Radd Cruisers · 11-01-09, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roscoFJ73

Does the 2LTE have some kind of sensor that sends a signal to the fuel pump from the crankshaft?

[...]

The engine will run but its as sluggish as hell.

Yes, there is a crank sensor on the block - it's about mid way along the block below the intake manifold. It sends crank position information to the computer to time the IP in conjunction with the sensor that's in the pump.

~john

buggyboy7 · 11-01-09, 08:46 PM

Hi Karl,

Welcome to MUD and 2LTE fun. I live right near you and have spent extensive time with this gem of an engine. Mine is in an LJ78 Prado. The fuel filters (P/N 23303-64010) can be had at Brian Rice Toyota. They get them in special order in a couple days. My head cracked early on but through various mods it now seems reliable. I'm over 100,000K now since changing the head. If you need any help and/or info PM me. I know where you can get your compression check done and can help you find parts locally if required.

Cheers
Keith

KlemWild · 11-02-09, 08:51 AM

Hi John and Keith,

Thanks for the help. I'll follow-up and try out the fuel filter first and then see what happens. I'm hoping that it's simple LOL.

Karl

Radd Cruisers · 11-02-09, 11:49 AM

I have fuel filter in stock and there are Napa numbers for them as well (though the cost is higher).

~John

KlemWild · 11-02-09, 02:30 PM

Thanks John,

What's your price for these?

Karl

KlemWild · 11-03-09, 04:59 PM

Well, that went ridiculously easy. The fuel filter has been changed and no change in the power. I took it for a test drive and everything about it seems right except that there's no power as it rev's. I've checked the engine codes and I'm still getting 4 and 12. Any diagnostic suggestions?

Thanks,

Karl

roscoFJ73 · 11-03-09, 05:32 PM

Is the crank sensor connected? Could have something to do with code 12

Is your fuel pump full? I think you could check this by removing the fuel return and see if any fuel is coming out .
Most fuel pumps draw up to 4 times as much as the engine uses and recycle it back to the fuel tank or fuel filter(this keeps the pump cool).
If the feed pump is worn ,it will run,but the pump will be starved of fuel.

KlemWild · 11-03-09, 06:04 PM

I'll check the crank sensor first and then see what's happening at the pump.

Thanks for the help.

I'll check back once I've tried this.

Karl

KlemWild · 11-03-09, 07:02 PM

As far as I can tell the crank sensor is connected. Getting to it was a bit difficult. The air con rads are in a bad place.

If the crank sensor was toast would there be other symptoms?

Thanks,

Karl

roscoFJ73 · 11-03-09, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KlemWild

As far as I can tell the crank sensor is connected. Getting to it was a bit difficult. The air con rads are in a bad place.

If the crank sensor was toast would there be other symptoms?

Thanks,

Karl

To be honest I dont know much about them ,except that if they are missing or not working they give the symptoms you mention.
Someone fitted a 2LTE pump onto a 2LT and had similar problems to you because it had no sensor.

You should have close to a litre a mintute coming out of the return hose at 2000 rpm from memory.

A good diesel shop would solve this in minutes

KlemWild · 11-03-09, 08:16 PM

Roger that,

I may have to take a trip down island to Coombs Country Auto and get Glen to look at it.

Thanks,

Karl

Radd Cruisers · 11-04-09, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roscoFJ73

To be honest I dont know much about them [...]
A good diesel shop would solve this in minutes

Nothing 2LTE can be solved in minutes. There are NO English language manuals available for diagnostics and the 1KZTE manual does not have the same test values as the 2LTE requires. The 1KZTE has somewhat better on-board diagnostics...

The 2LTE is a total POS, and I have to suffer working on these things almost daily in an attempt to keep the owners of them happy and rolling on down the road. The vehicles are decent, the engine is insufferable.

I have more experience with them locally than any other technician I know of, and I still feel like I know too little about the problems that people face and how to solve them. Glen at Coombs Country Autos is probably the only other guy (locally) that has a clue... as we chat back and forth quite a bit when it comes to these units in an attempt to learn from each others experiences.

~John

canucksafari · 11-04-09, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radd Cruisers

There are NO English language manuals available for diagnostics and the 1KZTE manual does not have the same test values as the 2LTE requires.

John have you tried getting a FSM manual from New Zealand? I remember coming across a number of web sites when I first got my Safari which provided translated copies of JDM FSMs.

Radd Cruisers · 11-04-09, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canucksafari

John have you tried getting a FSM manual from New Zealand? I remember coming across a number of web sites when I first got my Safari which provided translated copies of JDM FSMs.

Nothing in English... I am trying to get one in Japanese. I have not tried New Zealand, but have had no luck in all the other countries I have tried. Did the poor Kiwis get cursed with these things as well?

I have lots of resources for the Safari and most other Toyotas....

~John

canucksafari · 11-04-09, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radd Cruisers

Nothing in English... I am trying to get one in Japanese. I have not tried New Zealand, but have had no luck in all the other countries I have tried. Did the poor Kiwis get cursed with these things as well?

The Kiwis were one of the biggest importers of JDMs in the developed world. They got a lot of well used Prados.

There are a number of Safari manuals free to download - including one of the FSM which I printed out into 5 big binders. Next time I will email it to a printer and have them do it.

roscoFJ73 · 11-04-09, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radd Cruisers

Nothing 2LTE can be solved in minutes. There are NO English language manuals available for diagnostics and the 1KZTE manual does not have the same test values as the 2LTE requires. The 1KZTE has somewhat better on-board diagnostics...

The 2LTE is a total POS, and I have to suffer working on these things almost daily in an attempt to keep the owners of them happy and rolling on down the road. The vehicles are decent, the engine is insufferable.

I have more experience with them locally than any other technician I know of, and I still feel like I know too little about the problems that people face and how to solve them. Glen at Coombs Country Autos is probably the only other guy (locally) that has a clue... as we chat back and forth quite a bit when it comes to these units in an attempt to learn from each others experiences.

~John

The local shops here fix them with their eyes closed. I have a friend who has 240000 klms on his Surf,he has never had the head off and has no problems getting it serviced.

Radd Cruisers · 11-04-09, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roscoFJ73

The local shops here fix them with their eyes closed. I have a friend who has 240000 klms on his Surf,he has never had the head off and has no problems getting it serviced.

The mechanics of the truck is dead simple...

The fuel injection diagnostics... even though I consider myself to be well-versed on it, still provides me with hours of head-scratching and "entertainment."

~John

roscoFJ73 · 11-04-09, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radd Cruisers

The mechanics of the truck is dead simple...

The fuel injection diagnostics... even though I consider myself to be well-versed on it, still provides me with hours of head-scratching and "entertainment."

~John

I think the fuel injection shops here have had their japanese info translated. The shop I got to mumbled something about it one day ,but they keep it close to their chest.