Understanding Import Cruiser Prices

[aamiggia]

Hello All,

Is the reason buying an imported JDM cruiser (BJ71,74,HD81 etc.) solely for the diesel engine?

The prices are usually in the teens (Canadian) and the trucks are late least 15 years old. I just saw an 1990 HDJ81 VX LTD on the Luxury Import sight for $28,000 CDN. I'm not knocking the price, I'm sure it costs a lot to get it from Japan. I just don't get it.

For less money or even the same you can get a LX450 with all the trimmings including factory lockers. And it has probably never been off-roaded. Just a couple of Latte stains on the leather.

Is having a diesel that important? I'm sure someone has swapped a 1HD turbo diesel into a USD 80 series truck. In my area people are selling LX450's w/ 120,000 miles on it for $15,000 CDN. If I see one for under 10k I'll buy it as a winter beater.

I can understand a 70 series because of the rarity, but not an 80 at that price.

Import Curious.

[HZJ60 Guy]

I'd say it's definately a diesel thing. Personally I dont ever see buying a gasser (except a 911 turbo) vehicle ever again!

I'd LOVE a HDT80/1.

TB

[aamiggia]

So it's all about the diesel.

I know they have advantages in the off-road world, but what about using they around town or on the highway.

I wonder if the guys in Japan, South America, and Oz would prefer a gasser if they could pay US petrol prices.

Diesel Curious

[crushers]

Originally Posted by aamiggia

Hello All,

Is the reason buying an imported JDM cruiser (BJ71,74,HD81 etc.) solely for the diesel engine?

The prices are usually in the teens (Canadian) and the trucks are late least 15 years old. I just saw an 1990 HDJ81 VX LTD on the Luxury Import sight for $28,000 CDN. I'm not knocking the price, I'm sure it costs a lot to get it from Japan. I just don't get it.

For less money or even the same you can get a LX450 with all the trimmings including factory lockers. And it has probably never been off-roaded. Just a couple of Latte stains on the leather.

Is having a diesel that important? I'm sure someone has swapped a 1HD turbo diesel into a USD 80 series truck. In my area people are selling LX450's w/ 120,000 miles on it for $15,000 CDN. If I see one for under 10k I'll buy it as a winter beater.

I can understand a 70 series because of the rarity, but not an 80 at that price.

Import Curious.

first your swap idea, it is a good one but you buy the gasser for $15,000 and then buy an engine tranny combo for another $8000-$9500 and either pay someone to do the swap or do it yourself and you are at the same price but in a truck that has 150,000km on it...
one turn key and go the other a boatload of headaches. your choice of course.

rust free, options that you can not get over here in 1990, LOW milage and a direct injection turbo diesel that will run circles around their gasser counterparts and at twice the fuel milage and the ability to go 600,000km.
these might be some reasons.
another is to own something that not everyone has.

a couple more examples:
http://www.risingsunimports.ca/inventory.html#11_12 this truck actually has 175,000 km and he is asking $26,000 (see it here at http://www.kktrading-aurora.com/LAND...HDJ81_1990.htm, his supplier in Japan)

and here is another. :
http://www.outbackimports.ca/landcruiser.html#05-03 124,000km for $21,800

these are all really nice trucks and i have a feeling it will be years before the market gets flooded with these unique vehicles.

are they worth it? what is a near new vehicle worth to you?
my wife loved her 1994 FZJ80 but hated the fuel milage. this way she can have what she wants and get the fuel milage she needs.

as for offroad it is a great setup. on the highway you can't beat the fuel milage and power, add PI and you are up to 212 HP which is the same as the gasser counterpart with even better fuel milage yet...

cheers
Wayne

[aamiggia]

Ok, you got me on the fuel economy. I cry a little very time I put 80 L of gas into my truck. But if it's good fuel mileage you're after the $6,000 - $7,000 difference will take some time to make up. If you factor in the increased maintenance on a 7 year older truck there will never be any savings.

I also think the 80 series rigs are far less prone to rust than the 40's, 60's, and 70's. Japanese metal and paint has come a long way from the early 80's.

The extended life on the engine is good, but there is a lot more to a high mileage vehicle than the engine.

The trucks are minimum 15 years old and RHD. Plus, what kind of parts network is there for these trucks. I know there are guys on the net that can get you anything, but what happens if you have trouble in a small town. Can you get parts for these trucks from Toyota?

Good discussion.

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by aamiggia

So it's all about the diesel.

I know they have advantages in the off-road world, but what about using they around town or on the highway.

I wonder if the guys in Japan, South America, and Oz would prefer a gasser if they could pay US petrol prices.

Diesel Curious

We here in Central America pay roughly the same as the states for gasoline and most all pickups and SUV's are diesel.

A better question is why do we in the US and Canada keep thinking that a gasser is better?!?!? It's NOT, the fuel mileage is worse (1/2 the diesel mileage), the engine longevity is worse, maintenace and smog check is more hassle. I'm from Vancouver, B.C and when the AirCare program started everyone's gassers were failing all the time. I have NEVER had any of my diesels fail in 10 years and usually they are 1/2 the allowable smoke. The the newer diesels are not significantly noisier and acceleration, while not up to V8 standards can be plenty good enough in town.

I've got my '82 BJ60 when Toyota was still clever enough to bring them in. It's got 400,000km on the clock and I've got NO interest in a gasser '80 series. Find me a diesel '80 series and then you're talking!

I've driven diesels exclusively for about 10 years and I'll NEVER buy a gasser again! If necessary I'll keep on with the BJ60 or if it fails me for some reason I'll be looking for the diesel '80 at $25,000.

[aamiggia]

I'm not saying gassers are better.

If there was a similar priced diesel to what I aid for my LX450 I would by it in a heartbeat. I just think that when you compare everything in the purchase of an imported diesel the price cannot be justified.

Was the BJ60 around the same price as a FJ60 in 1982?

I can't see fuel prices in South America being anything close to the US or Canada. Maybe in Venezula becuase they are oil rich and part of OPEC (I think). Definitely not in Brazil.

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by aamiggia

I'm not saying gassers are better.

If there was a similar priced diesel to what I aid for my LX450 I would by it in a heartbeat. I just think that when you compare everything in the purchase of an imported diesel the price cannot be justified.

Was the BJ60 around the same price as a FJ60 in 1982?

I can't see fuel prices in South America being anything close to the US or Canada. Maybe in Venezula becuase they are oil rich and part of OPEC (I think). Definitely not in Brazil.

I don't know what the price of the FJ60 was when I bought the BJ60 (I got it in the spring of '89) I wasn't interested in the FJ60 then either even though that was when GM blessed the automotive world with the biggest peice of crap "diesel" that was ever installed! I'd guess the FJ60 and the BJ60 was similar though.

As you can see from my avitar I'm currently in Guatemala and the price for a US gallon of diesel today is Q16.5 which is approximately $2 US, gasoline is at Q19 which is about $2.50 US. That's not far off from what I hear in Canada or the states!

Next door in Honduras it is slightly more, maybe 5% and when we came through Mexico this summer it was roughly the same as at home as well.

I think the price of fuel in the states and Canada has gone up faster than the rest of the world because the government has been evening out the playing feild.

[aamiggia]

I guess Guatemala home now, or are you on some extended jungle tour?

Let me guess, an engineer working on a big project. Been there (not Guatemala, just the big project).

Guatemala Curious

[crushers]

we never got the FJ60 till 1988 and then it was a gasser with an auto behind it. it was a FJ62... curious, was a gasser FJ62 EVER woth the $23,000 new sticker price? 10 mpg on a good day and guttless to boot...

the diesel will sell for more just like a used diesel Ford sells for more than a gasser ford. is there justification for the higher price? considering how fast they sell i guess there must be.

the basic drivetrain is the same as the US counterparts so yes there is parts available. and the nice thing of driving diesel as long as you keep the maintainence up then you will not need parts in a small town, not for a long time anyway.

as for an imported diesel that the price cannot be justified, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. but as usual, there are others will disagree...

another thing to consider is a turbo diesel cruiser has a better tow rating as well, (i do not have the figures in front of me and i do not have time to pull them up.)

enjoy driving your gasser, it will be a LOOONG time before a diesel 80 is the same price as a gasser.

BTW, the price of the gassers have plumeted in the last couple years and now that the diesels are coming in they will drop in value again. it seems you will get your wish and be able to buy a winter beater 80 series sooner than you think.

cheers, it has been fun

[aamiggia]

I'm glad the people on this forum are very knowledgeable and open minded at least the few I have interacted with so far.

On other sites tempers would flare easily and people would always chim in with non sense just to increase their posting numbers I guess.

It seems Cruiser owners are more mature than other vehicle owners. I only have experience with Suzuki Samurai forums.

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by aamiggia

I guess Guatemala home now, or are you on some extended jungle tour?

Let me guess, an engineer working on a big project. Been there (not Guatemala, just the big project).

Guatemala Curious

I'm down here as a volunteer for at least two years with a return to Canada from mid June to late July 2005. If the Canadian government would allow me to register it, I'd be coming back with a late model diesel '80. I had a lead on a '97 for $11,000 USD but they aren't loaded like the ones from Japan, not to mention that these have almost certainly been off road, heck the main road into town is almost that bad!

To follow up on Wayne's comment's, I've towed a FJ55 with a naturally aspirated BJ60 and I've towed an FJ55 on a flat bed with my turbo'd 3B and on the flat or minor roads I can keep up with the traffic quite well. I think the FJ60/FJ80 would have a hard time of it.

[Stone]

The diesel's longevity is a huge factor for me favouring diesels. Also, I think that diesels don't have quirky carbs, electronic ignitions, and in the case of earlier diesel models...computers to worry about.

[crushers]

for me it is the desire to drive something not available here. the idea of havng one of the 2 legaly registered 1997 HZJ75 in NA is cool, the idea of driving the only turbo diesel Mits Jeep in NA is cool, the idea of driving a HDJ81 is cool, the idea of driving a LJ78 is cool...
sure there are others around but i have not had the chance to drive them...
cheers

[Landpimp]

wayne, this will not happen, the small amount of import dsl 80s that come in make no dent in the amount of gasser 80's in the US. Also as you know you can't legaly bring a dsl 80 into the US. I bet 95% of 80 series owners have no idea that there is a dsl version. And I suspect alot of 80's buyers will be put off by the right hand drive. The typical 80 owner(even old used 80's) is not interested in a jap spec 80, especaily in the US.

I would bet money the import dsl rhd 80's will have NO effect on the price of used gas 80s......it just can't happen. If that were the case, then late model 40's would be droping in value because of the dsl 70 coming in.......and you know late model 40's have not droped.

John

Originally Posted by crushers

BTW, the price of the gassers have plumeted in the last couple years and now that the diesels are coming in they will drop in value again. it seems you will get your wish and be able to buy a winter beater 80 series sooner than you think.

cheers, it has been fun

[crushers]

evening,
actually the price of the 40s have dropped over the last couple years. the price of the Canadian spec 70s have dropped. i relate this to the BJ74s that have come in. the old cruisers will always have a soft spot in my heart but now that there is a convertable 70 series available i can see more and more 40 series owners switching over as their old rust buckets die. they have a choice pay $20,000 to get it refurbished or buy a BJ74 low milage rust free for the same price.
it is the same with the 70s, why would anyone spend huge cash to restore a NA 70 when you can buy a rust free low km TURBO 13BT for the same or less....
i don't think the diesel 81s will catch on any time soon in the states since there is no legal way to export/import them down there but i know the Canadians will be itching to get one... at least i know of a few that are...
you are probably right, the 100 series coming off lease is the cause for the drastic drop i the value of the 80 series gassers.
cheers
Wayne

[The Dude]

I spent a lot on my HJ61. Way too much. But I don't regret it. I have been driving it for almost a year and love it. I will never get rid of it (and I hope it's stopped growiing)

When I looked at "building" what I could buy right from Toyota, the purchase made sense. I bought a perfect, rust free, low KM, loaded, turbo diesel, locked, FF, PTO winch'd land cruiser.

It would of cost me more to build it that way.

I still have my old trusty 40 that is getting hacked up and all the rust removed and the back end shorten'd and its being thrown on a 60 frame with a home brew turbo for the 3B with lockers and toybox and blah blah blah... it's all been done

It's not a RHD HJ61 from Japan...

[Landpimp]

I hear ya. But I still don't think the 70's effect the price of the 40's. Same problem getting a bj74 into the US as HDJ80..........can't be done legaly. In Canada YES I am sure it effects the price as well as the fact that the jap spec trucks are rust free...........unlike much of the candian Cruisers(40-60's)

Me if I had the option I would go jap spec 70/80 but I don't have that choice and if I don't then 1000's of others are in the same boat as me. The US market for used Cruiser must be alot greater then the canadian market.

and yes its the 100's droping the prices of the 80's. But a nice lower mile, late model US spec 80 still brings 15k or so. Not many 100's under 20K yet. ALso there are ALOT more 80's brought into the US than 60 series.

I havn't noticed much drop in the last few years on late model 40's, yes 5 years ago they were nuts, but you just don't see a nice 82-3 fj40 under 10K, most are 15k-25K. (of course I paid 7K for one of mine, $5K for the other

the dsl RHD Jap spec trucks are a niche market, not something for everyone for sure.

question, are most of the buyers of your jap spec rigs previous or current cruiser owners? or are they new to Cruisers? I bet its the 1st

So yes your right but I really think it effects the canadian market, not the US. US buyers must be died in the wool Cruiserheads willing to take on the chalange of bringing a jap spec rig into the US.

what a shame, because by the time we in the US can legaly get jap spec Cruisers........all the nice 70's will be long gone...........all we will have are jap spec 70's that have lived the last 10 years in canada...........so its just like looking at a rotted bj/hj60 today

you know if I could I would. and I would order today a bj74, a hj61 and a HJD81.......but I can't :(

John

Originally Posted by crushers

evening,
actually the price of the 40s have dropped over the last couple years. the price of the Canadian spec 70s have dropped. i relate this to the BJ74s that have come in. the old cruisers will always have a soft spot in my heart but now that there is a convertable 70 series available i can see more and more 40 series owners switching over as their old rust buckets die. they have a choice pay $20,000 to get it refurbished or buy a BJ74 low milage rust free for the same price.
it is the same with the 70s, why would anyone spend huge cash to restore a NA 70 when you can buy a rust free low km TURBO 13BT for the same or less....
i don't think the diesel 81s will catch on any time soon in the states since there is no legal way to export/import them down there but i know the Canadians will be itching to get one... at least i know of a few that are...
you are probably right, the 100 series coming off lease is the cause for the drastic drop i the value of the 80 series gassers.
cheers
Wayne

[crushers]

it is split about 50/50 new cruiser heads that are sick of american crap and die hard cruiser heads that want rust free low km trucks.
i find also my market is split about 25/75 american and canadian. there is a defiante american diesel desire.
maybe most american cruisers owners do not know there is diesel options but more and more are finding out. i get emails everyday of americans that want to swap a diesel into their gasser cruisers... so there must be a healthy demand...
this is just what i have seen.
i agree 5 years ago a rusted out 42 would bring $4000-$8000 and a priemum BJ60 or HJ60 would fetch $15000 to $20,000 and now they are not worth 1/2 that...
there are a few that refuse to own a RHD. i have also found once you can convince them to try, they find out how easy it really is.
the RHD JDM market will remain small. i find the buyers are much more informed since a lot of crap has found it's way here and there are buyers getting burned by inexpereinced sellers. there seems to have been a real upsurge of importers that come on the scene for a while, sell some crap and disappear into the woodwork after ripping off trusting buyers leaving them with a money pit to try and fix up.
there are a few of us that have respect for the buyer and it shows both from the product we bring in and the after purchase support we give. i know that those of us that are responsible importers will be around for a long time.
i feel this justifys the higher preimium that we charge for QUALITY units and after sale support.
cheers
Wayne

my thoughts were the same as the dude. I was able to buy the truck that I wanted at a price that was lower than it would have cost me to build, and to top all of the options are factory.

[lumpy70]

Aside from the Landcruiser quality, and the uniquness of the 70 series, the reason I love my cruiser is the diesel. Pure and simple.

I used to own european cars, they're quick, light, rev nice and high, good mileage, and generally can go most places on road in the snow because of the front wheel drive.

Then I got a diesel. I vow I will never go back. The diesel have very unique characteristics which made it very enjoyable to drive. It is a very visceral feeling. They're extremely torquey, and feel indestructable.

In fact, when I'm driving in the middle of nowhere in my cruiser (highway or offroad), the engine itself is the last thing I worry about.

Economy, longevity, torque characteristics, fuel prices and even environmentalism (diesels pollute WAY less thna gassers) are all reasons to own one.

Add in a rust free body, low kms, and a turbo, and you've got it made.

My two cents,
Craig.

[RIDDLER]

Don't you think that the high prices for all those import rare diesel cruisers is simply a niche product being priced (overpriced) as high as the market will allow? Honestly, I am a very frugal person and I have weighed for years the prices on the importers websites, ebay, and the classifieds. I bet the importers are making 35% or more on those high end cruisers. That is what is driving the prices. I may get flamed for this but think about all the hassle the importers go through. They would not do it for the average 5 to 15 percent sales margin in used cars or trucks. I have watched the prices and tried for years to justify the cost to import a high end loaded diesel landcruiser wagon into the states. We instead bought a loaded 97' 80 series for 10k less than the high end diesels and the difference in fuel costs will take maybe 5 years or more to work against me. Plus I don't have to sell my soul to a importer.

I have seen several posts from folks trying to understand the high prices of these rare diesel cruisers and it seems to be beyond logic to me. Also RHD is not something that is easy to overcome IMO and it should not be minimized. There are tons of dead tourists who forget which side is which just that one time. I drove on the other side for a day in Barbados and told myself I would never play with fate that way again.

Why not just find a rust free FJ60 that one could swap a cummins 4bt into for $5k. If the truck costs $5k then you have $10k into it then how can that compare to the rusted out 400k BJ60's that you would have to fight to import into the states? We have no smog laws so why not try the same conversion into a 80 series? Why don't more US cruiser folks pursue that conversion if diesel is so highly desired? Has anyone put a cummins diesel in a 80 series?

[beanz2]

My theory is the rarer a vehicle is, the more people are willing to pay for it.

We may forever argue about the economics of a diesel engine swap or the characteristics of a diesel engine vs. a gasser, etc., but at the end of the day there is something a diesel cruiser has over a gasser and even over a converted gasser, uniqueness. To me at least, there is something desirable about a diesel cruiser that was manufactured as such, solely because of the rarity of such beasts here. The less likely it is to reach these shores, the more desirable it is. I'd argue that in similar shape, a Japanese market HJ61 will be priced more (reflecting market demand) than a Canadian market HJ60, which in turn will be priced more than a US market FJ60.

I'd venture a guess that in markets where the diesel version is just as available as the gasser (e.g. Oz), the price difference isn't as much.

Dave

[mot]

The price difference in the gasoline and diesel Cruisers are not too much, but IMO they do exist because of the recent diesel emission restrictions being enforced in large metropolitan cities. So the gasoline models are more desirable, at least in those areas (Tokyo, Osaka, etc... and slowly expanding throughout Japan.)

I have seen the opposite dilemma here, those who own tiesel Cruisers contemplating gasoline engine conversion! So, theoretically, obtaining a diesel engines or diesel Cruisers should be cheaper than the gasoline counterparts.

And as far as driving on the "wrong" side...
Well, driving on the wrong side of the road can prove challengins, at least at first, but you get used to it. And driving on the same side of the road that you are used to in a vehicle with the steering wheel on the wrong side is not that difficult. My father has an older Volvo which is a LHD here in Japan and I don't have any problems driving it although the streets are MUCH narrower than those in Canada and the US. Also my British friends who drive a LHD Audi here are not complaining, either.

So it must not be that big of a deal. In fact, it's kind of a status(sp) thing to many who are driving expensive German imports, to be driving rare models in their product lines that are not available in the RHD form.

Mot

[crushers]

Riddler,
is the H2 worth the price? is the new diesel trucks Ford, Dodge, GM worth half the price of my house? not in my books, is the new tundra worth the asking price? not to me but lots are being sold.

importers take all the risk, they trust there contacts in Japan. they send thousands of dollars every month to a bank account overseas with NO way of getting the money back should the contact decide to skip out. We have our money tied up for months before we even get to see the trucks.

once they find a place on a ship for the ride over we have to pay again in advance. customs and rail at this end and finally we get to see the units. then there is storage here and some of us 'rust proof' the vehicles, shine guard, fabric guard, change out all the fluids, mains in the HDT, timing belts in those with them, inspections here and any minor repairs that are needed. some of us actually stand behind our warranties, find the RHD parts for our customers as well as get very versed in the newer models that we bring in. we hunt out ways to modify and improve that already appealing units. we source out the PROPER manuals for our customers that want to work on their own trucks.

there are those that do take the risk and bring in their own trucks and more power to them, I have also seen the result of some of these personal endeavors and I feel for them. everyone can buy without an importer helping along but if you loose $10,000 to $20,000 it can hurt and for a long time.

we spend days, even weeks, searching for quality units and hundreds $$ in phone calls overseas. it takes time to find someone you trust and this is no easy task either. the contact needs to know land cruisers and be able to converse understandably with you AND you need to be able to TRUST them.

Finally, I really doubt any importer will be paying off his house in the near future on the profit we make off these trucks.

as for RHD, if YOU do not feel comfortable driving one then DO NOT buy one.

I take each and every prospective customer out for at least a total of 1 1/2 hours of test drives to make sure he/she is comfortable behind the wheel. if they are nervous or if I do not think they can handle the RHD I will not sell it to them. if