3B lift pump

eric2381 · 01-02-09, 01:52 PM

Hello, I bought a 1982 BJ60 this summer. I've been doing a bit of work to the truck and it's been running well. It has the 3b diesel. In working on the truck I noticed that the PO had put an electrical lift pump in the line. They had it hooked up to a switch on the dash. It seemed mickey mouse and I wish to make the truck stock and eliminate failure prone items. I was driving the truck today, and it was sputtering badly, hard to start, and was very low on power. I believe this POS lift pump went south.

I have a 1993 Dodge with a 12 valve cummins. It has a mechanical lift pump, located on the side of the rear of the drivers side of the engine. I'm sure it operates much like a fuel pump from a Chevy SB. I also have a 2002 Dodge with a 24 valve diesel. It has an electrical lift pump, mounted on the rear of the engine. Like anybody who has a 24 valve Cummins knows, the electrical lift pump is prone to failure.

Does my Landcruiser have a mechanical lift pump from factory? Is this the lift pump in the pic? I know that the primer pump is the item with the round yellow cap. Is the lift pump the piece with the blue tag on it, attached to the side of the injection pump?

Can somebody help me out a bit here? I'm new to this type of engine.

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eric2381 · 01-02-09, 01:57 PM

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Sorry I think I did it wrong the first time. Thanks for any help. It'd be greatly appreciated. Eric

roalco · 01-02-09, 02:05 PM

Hi Eric, you are correct, the rusty iron ND piece on the front of the fuel injector pump is the mechanical lift pump. The inlet andoutlet valves are under the priming pump and the adjacent hex plug forward. The entire pump is quite easy to remove and inspect and clean. They are very robust, and other than perhaps having some crap in the valves, or leaking o-rings, you may find it's okay. Probably needs a new priming pump (check out your local diesel shop, lots of priming pumps fit). Have you or the PO been running biodiesel? the ethanol will eventually affect the seals in the lift and priming pumps, causing leaks.
Ross
84BJ60
Vancouver BC

eric2381 · 01-02-09, 02:22 PM

I have not been running biodiesel, but would like to run WVO/diesel mix come summer time when it's hot out. Seeing as the PO put an additional pump on it, I wonder if the mechanical lift pump is shot. Do you know how to go abouts testing it? After the truck acted up today, I brought it home, and removed the small electric pump the PO installed. I temporarily replaced it with an electrical pump I have in the garage, and the truck runs like new again. This leads me to believe the original lift pump is shot.

Would anybody happen to know where I can get one? I'd rather by one online, than go to a parts store, explain what I need, and get the same blank stare I get when I try to get other parts for my LC. I'll do a search and see if I can find a part number for this item as well.

Thanks alot for your help, I appreciate, and need it. Eric

Radd Cruisers · 01-02-09, 03:55 PM

The piston in the lift pump sometimes will stick of there's been any water in the system... yeah, bad to have water i in there but it happens.

The pump is quite easy to take apart and fix.

Primer pumps are easy to get. I can send you a part number for one that's available at NAPA if you PM me.

The Dodge has lots of problems with electric lift pumps and the VP44 injection pump - thankfully it's not the same thing on Land Cruisers.

eric2381 · 01-02-09, 04:45 PM

I pulled the lift pump and it was easy to remove. Three bolts and it was off. You mention that I can pull it apart to fix. Can you elaborate please? There is a roller that, I guess, would work on the cam in the injection pump. The piston works in and out easily, and it pumped out the fuel that was in it.

Please, could I get the part number from NAPA for the primer pump?

Thanks.

Radd Cruisers · 01-02-09, 05:11 PM

If the piston's moving freely and pumping fuel, it should all be good to go.

sent you a PM.

~John

roalco · 01-02-09, 05:49 PM

Check that there is no debris in the suction and delivery valves, and that the valve seating faces have no damage. I agree with Raddcruisers, it should be good to go. Do check the 3B engine factory manual fuel section, under fuel feed pump. it has a nice cutaway view and test/repair section. If you don't have a manual, download one from the links on the top of the diesel page. It'll be invaluable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

eric2381 · 01-02-09, 06:30 PM

When I pulled the pump off, oil was in the hole that was left. Does the oil come from the engine, or do I need to add oil before I put the pump back on?

lostmarbles · 01-02-09, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric2381

When I pulled the pump off, oil was in the hole that was left. Does the oil come from the engine, or do I need to add oil before I put the pump back on?

Hi Eric

The injector pump is pressure-fed with engine oil so you don't need to add any.

Puzzling why the PO felt they needed to instal an extra electric pump if that mechanical one works though!

Tell you what- Check that the primer pump is able to pump fuel and develop a good pressure - because it uses the same check valves that the piston does.

eric2381 · 01-02-09, 07:06 PM

When I unscrew the primer pump and pump it, fuel comes past the plunger and leaks out of the tube. Does this mean that I need a new primer pump? Would this cause the lift pump to not work properly?

The previous owner had a few things rigged up strangely. I had no heat, and got looking at it, and the heater hoses on the engine side were switched around, so the heater core was a closed circuit. I'd like to eliminate the electric pump for sure. If the primer pump is shot, which causes the lift pump to work improperly, the PO may have installed the electric pump as a fix. I dunno. Thanks for the help guys.

roalco · 01-02-09, 08:07 PM

Fuel shouldn't come out of the primer pump body (it shows that the internal piston seal is shot)( one of the more ethanol sensitive seals). It should pump cleanly when the bleed screw on the fuel filter is open, or you have an injector nut cracked for bleeding, then it should come up solid when they are shut (a hydraulic lock). You normally just recrack the bleed screw to allow the pump plunger to be run down and secured. Fit a new primer pump (A bad primer pump makes properly bleeding the fuel system a real bear!!) a simple fix.
Don't forget to check the internal fuel filter in the lift pump (at the inlet hose fitting), it's a spun metal unit and can become fouled with crap from the tank (that has bypassed the internal sock filter, or wash over from the water separator) (perhaps needing another fuel pump to force the fuel past it....?) and as it is on the suction side of the lift pump... well, that could well be the original problem!
Fingers crossed!

roalco · 01-02-09, 08:11 PM

Forgot to add, if the guy had the heater core isolated, you may have a leaking core.... (pressure test it before you reconnect) and it's a real PITA job to replace!

lostmarbles · 01-02-09, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric2381

When I unscrew the primer pump and pump it, fuel comes past the plunger and leaks out of the tube. Does this mean that I need a new primer pump? ....

Yes.

I recommend getting a Bosch replacement (any decent diesel shop should have one) under any of the following part numbers:

2 447 010 033
2 447 010 038
2 447 222 125
2 447 222 126

And if you're wondering what the differences are between each of these Bosch pumps - I don't know. In fact, as far as I can see, there is no difference. (And some of these part numbers actually apply to the very same pump with one being on the packaging box and the other on the pump itself. I've concluded that Bosch is crazy!!!!

)

Quote:

.. Would this cause the lift pump to not work properly? ...

Only if it were to be leaking in air all the time. (Which is possible.)

Note that that area is at "below-atmospheric pressure" without the electric pump (which will probably have its own non-return valve incorporated inside it). So the diesel in the fuel line would normally want to drain back into your fuel tank, and in doing so, suck in air from any leak at the primer pump.

But having said that, those primer pumps you pictured tend to be "sealed" when "screwed down into the stow position" even if they leak when you are pumping them.

Note that the Bosch primers are NOT of the screw-to-stow design (but despite that - I believe they are a better design than OEM and are cheaper too)

eric2381 · 01-02-09, 08:49 PM

Thanks for the help guys. John was kind enough to send me the part number and some quick info on changing out the primer pump.

Roalco, thanks for the advice on things. I'll be sure to check the internal filter in the pump. I was sure to download a manual as well, it's nice to have more info. Luckily, the heater core had no leaks, the heater works very well now. I cleaned to scale out of the front core and rear core, and cleaned out the hot/cold valve on the firewall. There was lots of crud in everything. I wonder if maybe the crud in the valve was allowing some hot water through in the summer time, and the PO had bypassed it to keep it a bit cooler in the summer time, I dunno.

Is there any secrets I need to know to check the internal screen filter in the lift pump?

Joe Egolf · 01-02-09, 09:16 PM

part number from NAPA for the primer pump _ Pls post up and add to part number section?

roalco · 01-02-09, 09:27 PM

Nope, no secrets... Just undo the banjo (inlet union) bolt, pull it out (keep track of the gaskets on either side of the union) and the filter will be inside the union bolt. Take it out, clean the crap off it, make sure it's not damaged and put it back together. I forget if the gaskets are composite or copper. if they are copper, always anneal them before reuse (just heat them up red hot and quench them in water, it'll soften them right back up nice) for a good seal.
Don't forget you can run with a leaky primer pump, just make sure it's screwed down, it won't leak while it's secured. That'll allow you to check to see if the work on the filter and lift pump has solved the problem, then just exchange the primer pump when you locate one. and don't forget to anneal the copper gasket under it (or use a new one).

eric2381 · 01-03-09, 08:39 AM

Hello, I disassembled the lift pump and cleaned it right out. Checked the screen and it was fairly clean. I took the extra electric pump out and hooked the fuel line up properly. I reinstalled the lift pump, primed it, and the truck fired up and ran fine. It took about ten cranks of the engine and it ran rough, but once the air was out of the lines, it ran well.

I downloaded the 3B repair manual, and I got looking through it. In the trouble shooting section it mentions that if the truck continues to run after the key is turned off, the injection pump needs work. My truck has continued to run for a second or so after I turn the key off since I got it. It always shuts off, but it takes a second or two. Do I have problems with my injection pump?

Thanks again for the help.

lostmarbles · 01-03-09, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric2381

... Do I have problems with my injection pump?....

No.

That's just the time it takes for the EDIC motor to move the injector pump lever to the "off" position Eric.

Greg_B · 01-03-09, 09:57 AM

Take a look at the EDIC arm and see if it correlates with the few seconds needed shutting off. Does it take a few seconds to start too, when already warm. The EDIC motor grounds through the engine strap ground, and get get lazy if corrosion or poor connections are present. Your FSM will walk you through the three positions the EDIC selects (over-inject start, run and stop positions) where it attaches to the injection pump.

hth's

gb