Starter working better after some use?

sandcruiser · 07-29-08, 09:09 AM

Hey all
I've had the 60 sitting for some time (more than 3 months, less than 6) and when I went to fire it up, I wasn't surprised that the battery was toast.

I swapped in the battery from the 80, which starts the 80 just fine, and *was* surprised that it did not turn the 2H over at all.

I roll started it, drove it maybe 100 yards, then 100 yards back. Idled for a few minutes (five?) then turned it off. The next day it wouldn't start w/ the battery.

After roll starting it and driving it around, I stalled backing into the driveway. Without much thought, I re-started it. It fired right up.

So.... is it possible that the starter somehow benefitted from being warmed up and/or the motor got a little easier to start? Or is it wishful thinking on my part?

Tapage · 07-29-08, 04:41 PM

I'm .. from the urban lejend that you ear around here, the engine at morning it's more "tight".. thought the real explanation behind, was the expansion rate from pistons and block, are diferent materials ..

So it's much more easy start a engine that it's " hot " than one that it's " cold " due to the lowered comp ratio at normal operative temp ..

roscoFJ73 · 07-29-08, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandcruiser

So.... is it possible that the starter somehow benefitted from being warmed up and/or the motor got a little easier to start? Or is it wishful thinking on my part?

It might need a clean out and the bearing oiled. I have seen other electric motors do this after a period of idleness.
The pistons were probably glued to the cyls with oil sludge as well

TOBASH · 07-29-08, 07:10 PM

A stuck engine means no oil where it needs to be, with rust also holding things back.

In such a case I would have:

1)pulled the injectors &/or the glow plugs,

2) pushed Marvel Mystery Oil into each cylinder until each piston is totally covered

3) Waited at least 6 hours and probably 1 or 2 days, then

3)WITHOUT replacing the injectors or the glow plugs I'd have cranked the engine for a few seconds six or seven times after that long waiting period. You can't replace the stuff as otherwise the Marvel Mystery Oil has no where to go and will bend the crank or crack a piston. You also need to cover the engine with several towels as the oil will otherwise fly everywhere.

4) Then changed the engine oil and filter to get rid of any MArvel that leaked down.

You may have scored your cylinders friend. I hope not.

With prolonged down time, engine rust can build up and oil can drain away, leaving rusted piston rings to scrape against rusted cylinder sleeves.

I would consider checking pressures in each piston or looking in with a boroscope.

Best, (and I hope I don't sound like the bringer of doom and gloom),

T

sandcruiser · 07-29-08, 07:19 PM

yeah... let's keep in mind that the truck only sat for around 4 months. I may have even fired it up once during that, maybe, I don't recall. But I'm pretty certain that it wasn't a rust problem. Maybe some sludge... sure.

Regardless, drives perfectly fine now. I haven't tried to restart it in the last few days, but will be getting a new battery this week to see where things go.

Walkman · 07-30-08, 08:03 AM

Did it even "try" to start? I.e. could you hear the cone kick out etc?
If not Brownbear helped me diagnose my dieing starter by tapping it with a hammer. Turns out the brushes were worn down to nubs. THe starter didnt die gracefully, just stopped working all of a sudden.

sandcruiser · 07-30-08, 03:32 PM

once I get a new battery in, I'll start trouble shooting the starter in a more normal fashion

07-29-08, 09:09 AM	#1
sandcruiser IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tamarindo, Costa Rica Posts: 1,989	Starter working better after some use? Hey all I've had the 60 sitting for some time (more than 3 months, less than 6) and when I went to fire it up, I wasn't surprised that the battery was toast. I swapped in the battery from the 80, which starts the 80 just fine, and was surprised that it did not turn the 2H over at all. I roll started it, drove it maybe 100 yards, then 100 yards back. Idled for a few minutes (five?) then turned it off. The next day it wouldn't start w/ the battery. After roll starting it and driving it around, I stalled backing into the driveway. Without much thought, I re-started it. It fired right up. So.... is it possible that the starter somehow benefitted from being warmed up and/or the motor got a little easier to start? Or is it wishful thinking on my part? __________________ 91 fj80 w/ 93 1HD-T. OME 850/860 w/ 1" front spacer, LEDs, HIRs, Hankook MT's 31x10.50r15, Tuffy center, ARB rear locker (in progress), in garage: lightforce lights, full rack, superwinch X9, maggiolina tent, hella horns. WTB: Tan DS mirror & housing '88 HJ60, "Louie" For Sale in Costa Rica.

07-29-08, 07:10 PM	#4
TOBASH IH8MUD Irregular Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 349	Bad move IMHO A stuck engine means no oil where it needs to be, with rust also holding things back. In such a case I would have: 1)pulled the injectors &/or the glow plugs, 2) pushed Marvel Mystery Oil into each cylinder until each piston is totally covered 3) Waited at least 6 hours and probably 1 or 2 days, then 3)WITHOUT replacing the injectors or the glow plugs I'd have cranked the engine for a few seconds six or seven times after that long waiting period. You can't replace the stuff as otherwise the Marvel Mystery Oil has no where to go and will bend the crank or crack a piston. You also need to cover the engine with several towels as the oil will otherwise fly everywhere. 4) Then changed the engine oil and filter to get rid of any MArvel that leaked down. You may have scored your cylinders friend. I hope not. With prolonged down time, engine rust can build up and oil can drain away, leaving rusted piston rings to scrape against rusted cylinder sleeves. I would consider checking pressures in each piston or looking in with a boroscope. Best, (and I hope I don't sound like the bringer of doom and gloom), T __________________ TOBASH _ When all hope of logic and reasoning fail, just Take Out Back And Shoot in Head. It'll do wonders for your emotional well-being.

07-29-08, 07:19 PM	#5
sandcruiser IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tamarindo, Costa Rica Posts: 1,989	yeah... let's keep in mind that the truck only sat for around 4 months. I may have even fired it up once during that, maybe, I don't recall. But I'm pretty certain that it wasn't a rust problem. Maybe some sludge... sure. Regardless, drives perfectly fine now. I haven't tried to restart it in the last few days, but will be getting a new battery this week to see where things go. __________________ 91 fj80 w/ 93 1HD-T. OME 850/860 w/ 1" front spacer, LEDs, HIRs, Hankook MT's 31x10.50r15, Tuffy center, ARB rear locker (in progress), in garage: lightforce lights, full rack, superwinch X9, maggiolina tent, hella horns. WTB: Tan DS mirror & housing '88 HJ60, "Louie" For Sale in Costa Rica.

07-30-08, 03:32 PM	#7
sandcruiser IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tamarindo, Costa Rica Posts: 1,989	once I get a new battery in, I'll start trouble shooting the starter in a more normal fashion __________________ 91 fj80 w/ 93 1HD-T. OME 850/860 w/ 1" front spacer, LEDs, HIRs, Hankook MT's 31x10.50r15, Tuffy center, ARB rear locker (in progress), in garage: lightforce lights, full rack, superwinch X9, maggiolina tent, hella horns. WTB: Tan DS mirror & housing '88 HJ60, "Louie" For Sale in Costa Rica.

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07-30-08, 08:03 AM	#6
Walkman IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 39	Did it even "try" to start? I.e. could you hear the cone kick out etc? If not Brownbear helped me diagnose my dieing starter by tapping it with a hammer. Turns out the brushes were worn down to nubs. THe starter didnt die gracefully, just stopped working all of a sudden.