Turbo sound

[danhr]

I recently drove a 1HD-T. It has a CT26 turbo. I was amazed by the swishing sound of turbo. Installed a boost gauge and boost is 12PSI in 3rd gear at 4000rpm.

I unplugged the waste gate hose from my 13B-T (CT26 tubro) and it produces 14psi. But I don't hear that turbo sound as did in 1HD-T. Why is that?

[rchalmers3]

Dunno, why do you ask? You liked it, didn't you?

Rick

[Tapage]

I believe that the CT-26 mathet to a 1HD-T it's the better combination that I ever feel in a turbo diesel engine .. ( ya are a Cruiser engine )

Have you the same exhaust type in both Cruiser .. this can make the hole diference ..

BTW I naver run my 1HD-T at 4000 rpm .. just scary !

[gerg]

4000rpm... that sounds like a fun experiment.

[brownbear]

Originally Posted by danhr

I recently drove a 1HD-T. It has a CT26 turbo. I was amazed by the swishing sound of turbo. Installed a boost gauge and boost is 12PSI in 3rd gear at 4000rpm.

I unplugged the waste gate hose from my 13B-T (CT26 tubro) and it produces 14psi. But I don't hear that turbo sound as did in 1HD-T. Why is that?

Exhaust is the main element on the turbo sound. The 80 probably had a more open exhaust.

Go have 2.5 or 3 inch exhaust installed on your truck and it wil sound nice and reduce egt, might even give better mpg. Also skip the muffler. No need for a muffler on a turbo diesel.

my turbo 3b turbo purrs nicely, spins easy and free flows out the tail pipe. At idle I hear a slight whistle at the tail pipe.

[83bj60]

Yeah, I LOVE that turbo whistle!!! Actually, I love it so much that I try to maintain the engine speed where it sounds best... That would be about 1600-1800 RPM under low to moderate load... Also where the engine runs at its thriftiest!

[danhr]

I am talking about the sound from engine side. Not the tail pipe. I can hear that whistle at idle from muffler and it is nice. I also maintain rpm so that I can hear that whistle.

This 1HD-T turbo sounds like those performance cars. Like 'feeeeeeeeeeeeeeshhhhhhhhfeeeeeeeee'. It’s so awesome it’s to die for.

I wish my 13B-T could produce sound like that.. When I remove the wastegate hose, it somewhat does produce similar sound, though very low. However, that is cheating hehe.

I have run over 4000rpm even. At 4100rpm power remains constant and one needs to shift. Max rpm in first 4 gears is 4200rpm. It does scare the hell out of pedestrians. Not me.

[hectorladron]

check the flex hose past the turbo, they tend to crack on these vehicles, thus creating that loud turbo sound, mind you, i'd be alot more whistling than anything else.

[83bj60]

Exactly. You can really only hear it when you have a straight pipe or when your exhaust is gone.

Cheating? It's only noisier when starting from cold. The rest of the time the sound is perfectly bearable. I've asked, and most people actually like the sound (except subsurban soccer moms)

[bigluxs]

dont know if you guys have seen this but i like it as this is what my 60 sounds like
YouTube - Turbo intercooled pc cruiser

[crushers]

1PZTI on propane to 4700... with the snorkel on the drivers side... now THAT ia a cool sound!!

[Towpack]

Originally Posted by brownbear

Exhaust is the main element on the turbo sound. The 80 probably had a more open exhaust.

Go have 2.5 or 3 inch exhaust installed on your truck and it wil sound nice and reduce egt, might even give better mpg. Also skip the muffler. No need for a muffler on a turbo diesel.

Fitted just such an exhaust on my 1HD-FT recently with side exit and can confirm the turbo whistle is now much more noticeable,as are the lower EGT's and slightly better pulling power in the higher gears when loaded up and towing.

What's this fear of 4000rpm all about.The red lines @4300.Perfectly safe just so long as your cambelt and tensioner are sound.Revving the engine to the limiter several times is part of the annual MOT test in the UK.Most MOT test stations have a disclaimer posted up on the wall so if something on the engine lets go it's nothing to do with them!

[crushers]

actually a HDT (PZ and HZ) redlines at 4700 but with an adjustment it can rev higher (not recommended)
of course max power is at 3600 but still fun to do once in a while...
the "B" series redlines at 4300
red line running will decrease engine longivity drasticly

[Towpack]

Originally Posted by crushers

red line running will decrease engine longivity drasticly

Can't agree with you there my friend.Depends how far into the red you go.The red line,by definition, is at the maximum safe continous RPM.Going past the 'redline' is when the danger starts.On a deisel engine tuned for low/midrange power revving TO the redline is pointless but not dangerous.Lugging the engine at very low RPM's in high gears does far more damage.

[gerg]

The dangers I see with high rpms are:
Exponential increase in friction/ wear
Good potential of floating a valve on an old engine
Really testing the film strength of your oil.
And last but not least... ridiculously high EGTs

Im quite interested in hearing your explanation of how lugging in a high gear does more damage to an engine than running really high rpms... such as 4000.

What is your definition of low rpm?
What damage is being done?
Is it damaging the engine or the transmission?
WTF?
g

[crushers]

i have to agree with Towpack, lugging an engine is much more stressful than reving it.
next time you are out for a drive find a hill and drive in a high gear but low rpms and watch your EGTs, they go through the roof.
now do the same hill in a lower gear and higher rpms and the EGTs will have dropped considerably.

now add the the equation the stress load on the BEBs, the unburnt fuel being expelled, the strain on the clutch.tranny.t/case.u/joints.cooling system.oil system when lugging. if you have a weak link you will find it by lugging an engine.

lug:
intransitive verb
1: to pull with effort : tug
2: to move heavily or by jerks <the car lugs on hills>

now when redlining an engine, unless it is overfueled, the EGTs will be,depnding on the system setup, maxed at 1200F. if you over fuel then the load introduced at high rpms will be indicated by EGTs.

your points for high constant rpms,
about oil are correct for sure. the oil pressure shoudl be around 80psi at 4000 rpm but the oil volumm might not be adaquate for the job.
the friction can be increased for sure.
the engine cooling system will be taxed even if the EGTs are low.
the rotating mass will affect the BEB again.
floating valves will be an issue.
the power range will have been passed by now depending on setup.

but

it is still cool to hear and feel.
also depending on the size of your balls, high speeds are fun.

in all honesty, depending on the situation my shifting rpm is about 3600 in a 1HZT when in a hurry or 2400 when not... usually i am not in much of a hurry.

[Towpack]

Originally Posted by gerg

The dangers I see with high rpms are:
Exponential increase in friction/ wear
Good potential of floating a valve on an old engine
Really testing the film strength of your oil.
And last but not least... ridiculously high EGTs

Im quite interested in hearing your explanation of how lugging in a high gear does more damage to an engine than running really high rpms... such as 4000.

What is your definition of low rpm?
What damage is being done?
Is it damaging the engine or the transmission?
WTF?
g

There should be no exponential increase in wear at the redline assuming the engine is well maintained.

OK,valve float on an old engine could possibly be an issue but the valve train is usually designed with a decent safety margin.Probably THE most important factor governing an engines designated redline is critical piston speed,dictated by the weight of the piston,the stroke length and piston material.

Redlining will not test the film strength of your oil if your pump is working OK.Lugging at low RPM you are operating with a lower oil pressure to start with so the oil film will be 'squeezed out' and broken down with the extra load much easier with resulting metal to metal contact on (particularly) the BEB's and possibly the mains also.

As Crushers has pointed out EGT's will be much higher with lower RPM/higher load.The increase in RPM when changing down on a hill climb decreases the load and (particularly on a turbo engine) gets more air through the engine and brings the EGT's down drastically.As I mentioned in an earlier post the fitting of a less restrictive exhaust on my LC has reduced the EGT's by increasing the gas flow out of the engine without any other mods.

[gerg]

Originally Posted by Towpack

There should be no exponential increase in wear at the redline assuming the engine is well maintained.

OK,valve float on an old engine could possibly be an issue but the valve train is usually designed with a decent safety margin.Probably THE most important factor governing an engines designated redline is critical piston speed,dictated by the weight of the piston,the stroke length and piston material.

Redlining will not test the film strength of your oil if your pump is working OK.Lugging at low RPM you are operating with a lower oil pressure to start with so the oil film will be 'squeezed out' and broken down with the extra load much easier with resulting metal to metal contact on (particularly) the BEB's and possibly the mains also.

As Crushers has pointed out EGT's will be much higher with lower RPM/higher load.The increase in RPM when changing down on a hill climb decreases the load and (particularly on a turbo engine) gets more air through the engine and brings the EGT's down drastically.As I mentioned in an earlier post the fitting of a less restrictive exhaust on my LC has reduced the EGT's by increasing the gas flow out of the engine without any other mods.

Everything I ever learned in physics taught me that friction does actually increase exponentially. Double the speed and quadruple the friction. I have a hard time seeing friction increasing without seeing increased wear.

Oil pressure and film strength have nothing to do with each other.
Film strength refers to the oils ability to create a barrier to prevent metal to metal contact. Oil pressure measures only the pressure of the oil circulating in your oil journals... not the pressures experienced at your bearing surface. I think its just a tad higher than 80psi...

With excessive RPMs you will be ejecting a large amount of burning fuel out your tailpipe. I guarantee you that at 4000rpm you can achieve much greater EGTs than at 1500 with your foot into it, all with the same fuel settings.

BEBs... I think that is a DI thing personally.

g

[crushers]

if your fuel is set properly then the fuel out the tail is not excessive at 4000 rpm
if the pil pump can move the volumm needed then the rpm will not affect it, problem is that the volumm is set by the size of the oil journals, not the pressure. the pressure is needed to move the same volumm at higher rpms...
incorrect, i can guarantee your EGTs will be greater at 1500 rpm with your foot into it than 4000 rpm if not over fueled. i have proven this time and again on different Toyota diesel engines. esp with a larger exhaust system install such as what Tpack says he has.

BEB is not a DI problem, that problem was due to inferior quality bearings being installed. BEB problems due to stress can be experienced with any engine. BEB failure is common on most engiens that wre abused by excessive rpms. the oil can not lubricate properly and the bearing "sticks" to the crank this can lead to siezure of the crank to the rod, snapping the rod and can shove the rod through the block... usually this happens on older engines where the bearing clearences have been worn so the film of oil is not enough to with stand the high rpms.
this is why most engien failure due to bearings are BEB and not the mains. very seldom will you see a spun main.
this is not in agreement to excessive rpms is less damaging than lugging. both are dangerous to an engine if occuring time after time or for longer periods of time.
cheers

[Tapage]

YouTube - Marilu 3" straight pipe sound

[eleblanc]

Here is a old thread of mine, with some video of my rig. for those who did see it.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-...ight-pipe.html

[bigluxs]

YouTube - first start up hj60 TURBO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBFHW...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wemBh...eature=related

[prado t]

Back to the original question. The compressor wheel on the 13B-T is not designed to have the "spool-up" sound like that on a cummins for example. The set-up is not an efficient example in fact IMOP the AR is all wrong. It works but not as good as it could. I know the difference you are talking about There is the sound from the exhaust turbine if someone opens the exhaust but the sound you are asking about comes from the compressor wheel spool up. It doesnt matter if it is a new CT26 or a bagged one the sound isnt there . What you will get is a vacumm cleaner sound with the snorkel.

[bigluxs]

Originally Posted by prado t

Back to the original question. The compressor wheel on the 13B-T is not designed to have the "spool-up" sound like that on a cummins for example. The set-up is not an efficient example in fact IMOP the AR is all wrong. It works but not as good as it could. I know the difference you are talking about There is the sound from the exhaust turbine if someone opens the exhaust but the sound you are asking about comes from the compressor wheel spool up. It doesnt matter if it is a new CT26 or a bagged one the sound isnt there . What you will get is a vacumm cleaner sound with the snorkel.

this is the sound that comes from the compressor wheel of a gas car wich is the just about the same sound that i get from my 2H

when i get time i'll get a vid of mine making that sound just in a diesel it is not as good as a gas car

YouTube - vl turbo spool and dose closeup

[TOBASH]

Turbo whistle and whoosh are functions of many things including exhaust. Problem is with an impeller doing up to 100k rpm, you don't get knocking like in an engine, you get whistle or whoosh. As bearings fail the impellers can contact the housing and rub. It gives a high frequency whoosh.

It is very possible that this turbo you speak of has bearings that are failing. Best way to tell is tug on the impeller. If it pulls/pushes it needs new bearings IMHO.

I may be new here, but I am old when it comes to turbos and their rebuilds.

Best (and hope I am wrong),

T

[danhr]

There are two whistle sounds of a turbo that I have noticed. One of spooling from exhaust and other one from engine. The one from engine is more demanding.

[bigluxs]

Originally Posted by danhr

There are two whistle sounds of a turbo that I have noticed. One of spooling from exhaust and other one from engine. The one from engine is more demanding.

i think your taking about the air passing through the X over pipe

[bigluxs]

here is a vid of my 2H turbo from in the car it is much loader when your there

YouTube - HJ60 turbo 1

YouTube - HJ60 turbo 2