Squeezing more k's from every litre...

[crushers]

the comment was:
Roverboy:
" but MASSIVELY increases the stress on everything."

there is no proof that a controlled and progressive induction of propane causes any MASSIVE increase of stress. as in anything if you dump gobs of added power to an engine you will increase the load BUT a controlled injection of propane will not.
think of it as a turbo affects the load on an engine. the boost does not jump instentainiously from 0 lbs to 15 lbs, it is a gradual climb in pressure (sometimes quick but still gradual). with a PROPER propane injection system the increase in stress and power is also gradual since the volumm of propane is increased as the boost increases. you can adjust the propane to be injected in what ever amounts and at what ever boost you want... so if you want a minimum injuection of propane 2 cfm at your cruising speed average boost of 6 lbs then you set the system at 4 lbs. the voost will open the valve and allow the propane to BEGIN being injected into the air charge to the engine. at 6 lbs of boost you will be at the 2 cfm, this will provide a cleaner burn, PROBABLY a whee bit better milage and smoother burn of the fuel... NOT the massive stess load Roverboy is indicating. you also can limit the max of propane you are injecting so at 15 lbs you can also set the max at 3cfm for hills or passing... once again this is a controlled injection of propane NOT a line from a bottle in the cab and a hand knob cranking the flow of propane uncontrollably into the engine. with propane a little is good, and contary to popular belief, a lot is not better.

now this is MY take on propane injection for fuel economy:
the addition of propane for fuel economy is a waste of time and money in my mind. it is for an increase of performance. you "might" get a mile or two to the gallon out of a properly setup system but then you are paying for the kit, the install, the tank and the fill with each tank. it will take a long time to pay off the advantage costs.

<uneducated BS comments like those from Roverboy should be edited>

Originally Posted by 83bj60

OK, then, Wayne: what is your take on propane injection?

What I understand from propane injection is that it increases the heat of combustion hence the efficiency of the combustion. Assuming I am correct, when internal heat is increased, it would also increase the speed of the flame front during diesel fuel combustion, which has the effect of making more power available when it can be used but has the corrolary effect of increasing loading on the conecting rod and its bearing druing that concentrated energy output phase. In that case, excess loading is a legitimate concern.

Advancing the timing also increases the speed of combustion (the famous "rattle" Tapage was talking about) by having more of the combustion occur at maximum compression, so it seems reasonable to interpret the result of increased punctual engine loading as being similar to that caused by propane injection. In other words, increased engine efficiency, but alos encreased internal stresses.

To what extent and with what end result, that's another story...

Now, granted, there is a lot of speculation here. We peonies have no means of actually measuring fuel input, loads generated, heat of combustion and engine output. Or do we

What I mean to say is, where's the test data to prove the value of propane and or hydrogen injection as a means to improve engine efficiency (I understand propane injection is a reasonably cheap way to increase engine output)?

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by crushers

the comment was:
Roverboy:
" but MASSIVELY increases the stress on everything."

there is no proof that a controlled and progressive induction of propane causes any MASSIVE increase of stress. as in anything if you dump gobs of added power to an engine you will increase the load BUT a controlled injection of propane will not.
think of it as a turbo affects the load on an engine. the boost does not jump instentainiously from 0 lbs to 15 lbs, it is a gradual climb in pressure (sometimes quick but still gradual). with a PROPER propane injection system the increase in stress and power is also gradual since the volumm of propane is increased as the boost increases. you can adjust the propane to be injected in what ever amounts and at what ever boost you want... so if you want a minimum injuection of propane 2 cfm at your cruising speed average boost of 6 lbs then you set the system at 4 lbs. the voost will open the valve and allow the propane to BEGIN being injected into the air charge to the engine. at 6 lbs of boost you will be at the 2 cfm, this will provide a cleaner burn, PROBABLY a whee bit better milage and smoother burn of the fuel... NOT the massive stess load Roverboy is indicating. you also can limit the max of propane you are injecting so at 15 lbs you can also set the max at 3cfm for hills or passing... once again this is a controlled injection of propane NOT a line from a bottle in the cab and a hand knob cranking the flow of propane uncontrollably into the engine. with propane a little is good, and contary to popular belief, a lot is not better.

now this is MY take on propane injection for fuel economy:
the addition of propane for fuel economy is a waste of time and money in my mind. it is for an increase of performance. you "might" get a mile or two to the gallon out of a properly setup system but then you are paying for the kit, the install, the tank and the fill with each tank. it will take a long time to pay off the advantage costs.

<uneducated BS comments like those from Roverboy should be edited>

No post from Crushers is ever complete without some insults to detract from his message.

Regardless of how you like to "control the injection" of propane, you're adding it to the cylinder before the diesel injects, the gas preignites causing the diesel to burn sooner.

The loads this increase in timing places in the engine are nothing like turbocharging, such a statement suggests a lack of understanding.

Of course I don't sell or fit these systems so I have nothing to gain from promoting them.

[crushers]

yah, i am promoting the sale of propane iinjection kits by telling everyone NOT to buy for fuel economy...

grow up little man.