300tdi Why is it not being used?

[Tapage]

Originally Posted by Dougal

We didn't get many RD28's here, but the LD28 (biggest difference, no turbo) has a great reputation despite people putting it in vehicles that're way to big and heavy.

Many of the early ZD30's sold new here had normal wastegated turbos, the vehicles imported used from japan and the later models all had variable vane turbos.
The only ones I know of (friends of friends) that blew up were variable vane models. Whether it's due to the turbo or not I don't know, but Nissan also had a rash of airflow sensor failures around the late 90's.

Good point Dougal .. here all the ZD30 are variable vane and ECU controlet engines and turbos ..

[Ohlins]

So do you have stats on the ZD30 failures? They'd be interesting reading.

have a wee peep at Patrol 4x4 - Nissan Patrol Forum, Photos, Directory - GQ, MK, GR, MQ, GU Patrols and look for the GR/GU models. You`ll find detailed descriptions (also `stickys`of what has gone wrong with the patrol engines...usually melting pistons number 3 and 4. Early one also suffered axle and gearbox problems. you`ll find pictures in this site showing damage caused. Some owners even state they got replacement engines from Nissan out of warranty. For info.

[Ohlins]

Also on the subject of the origianl post I drive a land Rover discovery 1995 300Tdi. I have 265,000kms on it with no problems with the motor in the 3 years i`ve had it. I get about 26mpg(Imperial Gallons) or that works about to be about 1000kms per tank full. It will sit all day at 120-130km/h. Its an older design pushrod engine with no electrikery so is easy to work on when it comes to my limit of checking valve clearances!!...I`m led to believe that you can change the head on it without interfering with the timing,in about 3 or 4 hrs work...

Mine at these kms is using no oil in between changes...and I drive it pretty hard mostly....after 1900rpms the turbo cuts in and all is fine...it`ll even rev out to 5250rpm in 3rd gear.....all that to say its a robust engine with cheap parts.....still does`nt stop me wanting an 80 series though....just for more room and 2 live axles!!

As mentioned in the post above...I was looking at Patrols and although they have the room I am afraid of the engine blowing...I was after the 3.0l just for more ooomph...but a good read at the French and Aussie site put me off. My buddy is selling his 2.8l 5 door but he can`t get rid of it due to the typical gearbox problems.....so its where i now look for an 80 series...I find though that they`re very expensive in mainland Europe so...if the BEbearings are done...I`m good to go if I can find one!!..try eBay, c?est vous! Achetez et vendez vos objets neufs ou d?occasion for comparative prices .....for info

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by Ohlins

have a wee peep at Patrol 4x4 - Nissan Patrol Forum, Photos, Directory - GQ, MK, GR, MQ, GU Patrols and look for the GR/GU models. You`ll find detailed descriptions (also `stickys`of what has gone wrong with the patrol engines...usually melting pistons number 3 and 4. Early one also suffered axle and gearbox problems. you`ll find pictures in this site showing damage caused. Some owners even state they got replacement engines from Nissan out of warranty. For info.

Thanks. Unfortunately the search just threw errors at me, but plodding through the first couple of pages shows a couple of well documented blowups and repairs as well as a few threads of people with high km's and no problems (yet).
It's just difficult to get an idea of the size of the problem, some people make a lot of noise, others may stay completely quiet.
This could be the most interesting one (not done reading it yet). How many K's has your 3ltr done? - Patrol 4x4 - Nissan Patrol Forum

What do you mean getting an 80 for two live axles? You've got them already.

[Ohlins]

Yip...I mean more room in the boot and none of that independent type suspension one see`s on eg.Colorado`s etc....lol

Seems the Patrol problem is all down to dirty/faulty air flow sensors with loss of power then over fueling thereafter....too much diesel then melted pistons...lots of owners seem to install exhaust gas temperature gauges along with turbo boost gauges to get an early warning.....I still like them as trucks though and I agree with what you say about the publicity issue..good or bad....

I to read the How many kms thread trying to convince myself that the Nissan could be my next truck....still probably side with the 80 though...

GU/GR Nissan Patrol - Patrol 4x4 - Nissan Patrol Forum

[Bryan062087]

Originally Posted by Ohlins

I get about 26mpg(Imperial Gallons)

26 mpg (imp) is quite a bit lower than what I've been hearing from other 300tdi owners. What are the driving conditions/what kind of driving did you do to get this figure? What load are you carrying?

[Ohlins]

Hi Bryon..

.I drive normal `running kids and wife around the place`....don`t forget an imperial gallon is 4.546 liters........I do however drive with a roof rack on full time though.....I usually keep the engine singing along nicely (not foot to the board stuff) but with out cruising slow /labouring in say 5th gear any time....

Although my truck i now 13 yrs old I would not hesitate to take it back to the likes of Morocco where I can sit in plus 35c heat all day at 130km/h whist covering big distance....confident that any workshop can work on it should it go bang at any time. As an aside the British Army still spec the 300tdi in their LR`s
I still find parts cheap to order from the UK for same too
....I also had a 300Tdi Defender 110 before which got similar consumption...26-27mpg...

I trust this is helpful

[Brit]

Normal driving I've been getting 28mpg - Defender 110 CSW (5-Door Station Wagon) with the 300 Tdi.

It is painfully slow though. Makes my pokey 3.9L V8 Defender 90 feel like a Vette off the line.

The injectors probably need service if it feels really sluggish until you wind it up and get the turbo going. That's a pretty typical symptom of needing some service.

The later 300 Tdi engines are pretty bullet proof and all LR diesels are easy to work on. For the TD5 you need dealer software for some things so that's the only issue there - especially for those of us in the states - since when you pull into the dealer service bay and ask for something for a 300 Tdi they say, "A What?"



I've found any competent diesel mechanic can work on a 300 Tdi. Workshop manuals are easy to come by and there's a wealth of enthusiasts willing to help out online anytime.

[Gerrit Loubser]

Originally Posted by Ohlins

As an aside the British Army still spec the 300tdi in their LR`s

In South Africa the pick-up versions of the Defender never came with the TD5; they had the Tdi 300 until the advent of the Ford 2.4 diesel. The Defender wagon could also be had in the "Kalahari" version with Tdi 300 instead of TD5, because many preferred the older motor for serious expedition use. Overall the Tdi 300 does not have a bad name locally (for a turbodiesel), but is not known to last as long as (say) the 1HZ.

P.S. I think one of the nicest turbodiesels is Mitsubishi's DiD (4M41) motor. It is not super high tech, but does have electronic control to help keep exhaust gas temperatures under control. It delivers 121 kW (162 hp) @ 3800 rpm and 373 Nm (275 lbf.ft) @ 2000 rpm, but has good low-down torque.

[Ohlins]

ah....Richards Bay...went there in my youth...great place for sure...anyway....Mitsi engine is one I`d would`nt hve thought of...do you know any websites for any kind of info concerning that engine you mentioned....??

[Gerrit Loubser]

Hi Ohlins,

There used to be a press release release on the Mitsubishi website dating back to 1999 and describing the 4M41 motor, but I can't find it any more. The engine is used in the DiD versions of the Mitsubishi Pajero (Montero in the USA, but the diesels are not sold there). Up to 2006, the 4M41 had an electronically controlled rotary fuel injection pump, but current versions have common rail direct injection.

The 4M41 is a 3200 cc (195 cubic inch) displacement 4 cylinder direct injection diesel with double overhead camshafts and 4 valves per cylinder. The bore is 98.5mm and the stroke is 105mm. Compression ratio is 17:1. I have attached a rather poor quality image of the power and torque characteristic graphs (compared to the older indirect injection 2800 cc 4M40 motor):

There are a number of companies that offer performance enhancement packages for the 4M41 via piggy-back engine ECUs. One of these is Dastek.

[Ohlins]

Ok..thanks for that...i`ll do a web search on that engine model number and see what I can pull up....does`nt do any harm in case needed for future reference eh??.....I take it they have a good record over there in your sunny clime???

[Gerrit Loubser]

Here in South Africa the 4M41 has a good reputation as being a reliable and durable motor. There are many examples that have run totally problem free for 250 000 km and more, some as high as 400 000 km. I don't think that is bad for a turbo diesel at all.

[roscoFJ73]

Originally Posted by Gerrit Loubser

Here in South Africa the 4M41 has a good reputation as being a reliable and durable motor. There are many examples that have run totally problem free for 250 000 km and more, some as high as 400 000 km. I don't think that is bad for a turbo diesel at all.

You dont hear too many bad thinga about them in oz either. Plenty of them get 300000 klms or more.
They have always lived in the shadow of the Prado but sometimes I wish I had one just to make up my own mind.

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by roscoFJ73

You dont hear too many bad thinga about them in oz either. Plenty of them get 300000 klms or more.
They have always lived in the shadow of the Prado but sometimes I wish I had one just to make up my own mind.

Here I don't know anyone putting one throught it's paces. The lack of wheel travel in the pajeros it is fitted to tends to turn people away.

Most people I know of who're doing engine transplants stay away from electronically controlled engines. The exceptions would be the occasional Toyota 1KZ-TE or the ricers who can wire in an aftermarket computer.

[roscoFJ73]

Originally Posted by Dougal

Here I don't know anyone putting one throught it's paces. The lack of wheel travel in the pajeros it is fitted to tends to turn people away.

Most people I know of who're doing engine transplants stay away from electronically controlled engines. The exceptions would be the occasional Toyota 1KZ-TE or the ricers who can wire in an aftermarket computer.

I was thinking more the older type as a DD instead of the 73 .
A mate got one from an elderly gent at the RSL for $2000 with a rebuilt engine that needs a clutch.
It was ok round town when I was in it

[Gerrit Loubser]

Originally Posted by Dougal

Most people I know of who're doing engine transplants stay away from electronically controlled engines. The exceptions would be the occasional Toyota 1KZ-TE or the ricers who can wire in an aftermarket computer.

It certainly is a lot more tricky to swap in an electronically controlled engine, but if all the relevant bits (ECUs, looms, sensors, plumbing) are obtained from a wreck or half-cut, it can be done. I know of a couple of 4M41 transplants, albeit not into Cruisers.

Of course the electronic engines do have some benefits as well and if one wants to transplant one, I would rate the 4M41 higher than the 1KZ-TE (in terms of performance and durability).

Originally Posted by Dougal

Here I don't know anyone putting one throught it's paces. The lack of wheel travel in the pajeros it is fitted to tends to turn people away.

One of the suspension performance parameters that are most important to off-the-tar mobility is flex (which is influenced by wheel travel, but not only that). In this department the Pajeros certainly are at a disadvantage compared to vehicles with solid front axles like the Defender, 40/50/60/70/80/105 Cruisers and the Nissan Patrol. The Pajero should, however be compared to other vehicles with independant front suspension (90/120 Prado, Isuzu Trooper, etc.). In this class the Pajero flexes as well/poorly as the rest and has similar off-the-tar mobility. The Gen 3 and later Pajeros that got the 4M41 motor have all round independant suspension, but despite this they have similar flex-ability to their class competitors. Many seem to regard them as glorified softroaders, but they are certainly more than that. They would obviously not be an ideal platform as a rock crawler, but are well capable in terms of overlanding.

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by Gerrit Loubser

One of the suspension performance parameters that are most important to off-the-tar mobility is flex (which is influenced by wheel travel, but not only that). In this department the Pajeros certainly are at a disadvantage compared to vehicles with solid front axles like the Defender, 40/50/60/70/80/105 Cruisers and the Nissan Patrol. The Pajero should, however be compared to other vehicles with independant front suspension (90/120 Prado, Isuzu Trooper, etc.). In this class the Pajero flexes as well/poorly as the rest and has similar off-the-tar mobility. The Gen 3 and later Pajeros that got the 4M41 motor have all round independant suspension, but despite this they have similar flex-ability to their class competitors. Many seem to regard them as glorified softroaders, but they are certainly more than that. They would obviously not be an ideal platform as a rock crawler, but are well capable in terms of overlanding.

What are these "class competitors"? BMW X series?
Pictures here of one jacked up showing the extreme articulation.
4x4Wire.com's TrailTalk Forums: Gen 3 Flex-ability
There's a pajero in this list with a ramp score of 300.
Perth4x4.net Forums - View Single Post - Coastal 4x4 Ramp Day 2008 - Results

The only person I know with one of these doesn't do anything more difficult than a graded access road. I know several people with the previous generation pajero who offroad them regularly. But they're all using the V6 petrol version with the biggest tyres they can fit.

[roscoFJ73]

Originally Posted by Dougal

What are these "class competitors"? BMW X series?
.

Well how about the IFS Jeeps, Hyundai Terracan, LR Discovery,Ssanyong Rexton and of course the Prado.
While the prices may vary wildly,the experience doesnt.
It would have to be the biggest and most competative section of the offroad market.

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by roscoFJ73

Well how about the IFS Jeeps, Hyundai Terracan, LR Discovery,Ssanyong Rexton and of course the Prado.
While the prices may vary wildly,the experience doesnt.
It would have to be the biggest and most competative section of the offroad market.

All those ones you've listed are more off-road biased than the current paj is.
That's why none of the 4wders I know have the current pajero.

[roscoFJ73]

Originally Posted by Dougal

All those ones you've listed are more off-road biased than the current paj is.
That's why none of the 4wders I know have the current pajero.

LOL Im sure the Ssangyong owners group would be tickled pink with that statement even though they know it is pure fantasy.
Recent tests in oz show the Disco suspension gives up on corrugated roads and the computer shuts the engine down unitl the air bags cool.
The Jeep auto trans does the same thing in hot sandy desert conditions.
The Sangyong gets cracks in the floor from bad roads.
The Terracan seems to be holding up with although even with its specially designed aussie suspension package its a little too much loaded on bad terrain(its still a brilliant performer at the price).

I would still prefer the Paj or the Prado

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by roscoFJ73

LOL Im sure the Ssangyong owners group would be tickled pink with that statement even though they know it is pure fantasy.
Recent tests in oz show the Disco suspension gives up on corrugated roads and the computer shuts the engine down unitl the air bags cool.
The Jeep auto trans does the same thing in hot sandy desert conditions.
The Sangyong gets cracks in the floor from bad roads.
The Terracan seems to be holding up with although even with its specially designed aussie suspension package its a little too much loaded on bad terrain(its still a brilliant performer at the price).

I would still prefer the Paj or the Prado

You forgot to mention the landcruisers chassis fatigue cracking on corrugated roads.
I've heard if you take an auto ford explorer for a drive in sand you get a truck ride home and a new transmission.

Got a link or a mag with the disco suspension overheating? I haven't heard that one before.

[roscoFJ73]

Originally Posted by Dougal

You forgot to mention the landcruisers chassis fatigue cracking on corrugated roads.
I've heard if you take an auto ford explorer for a drive in sand you get a truck ride home and a new transmission.

Got a link or a mag with the disco suspension overheating? I haven't heard that one before.

I havent seen any evidence of the Prado cracking it chassis. Sometimes letting tyres down can avoid this. There are plenty of owners out there who have $6ok to spend on a vehicle but have no idea of looking after them.

The Ford Exploder is a car with a front diff and no longer available here. I agree ,sand was its worst enemy.

4WD Monthly(now 4WDAction)ran a 2 way shoot out between the Disco (top model) and its equivalent Jeep competitor last year ,not sure which issue.
It involved taking them both into central oz on the roughest roads and driving them hard to see how long it takes for failures to appear.
Some would say thats an unfair way to test a 4wd .
IMO,the fault lays with the manufacturers of the Disco and Jeep for showing TV adverts of these in terrain that they are simply not capable of traversing,for long periods anyway

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by roscoFJ73

Sometimes letting tyres down can avoid this. There are plenty of owners out there who have $6ok to spend on a vehicle but have no idea of looking after them.

Damn straight.

I'll see if I can find something on that disco/jeep test. I don't think it'd be the airbags that were heating, there won't be any temp sensors there. Might have been the ride-height sensors, compressor or something like that.

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by roscoFJ73

Sometimes letting tyres down can avoid this. There are plenty of owners out there who have $6ok to spend on a vehicle but have no idea of looking after them.

Damn straight.

I'll see if I can find something on that disco/jeep test. I don't think it'd be the airbags that were heating, there won't be any temp sensors there. Might have been the ride-height sensors, compressor or something like that.