Smokin' Sputterin' Newbie

[spoof]

Hey all,

Great forum here, genuinely first class with a wealth of info. I've learned so much already that I just put in for a star to support the site.

I've got a 1981 BJ41 that just came into my possession. Real pretty, real exciting, real fun to drive....or....I think it could be fun to drive. It starts well and idles pretty true. It blows a ton of smoke, both black and white. It also sputters and backfires quite a bit, seemingly in the middle of the powerband, especially in first and second gear. If I accelerate through the sputtering and the popping, smoke goes from white to pure black and smooths out at the top of each gear's range. Except for the sputtering interruption, power seems quite good, or better than I was expecting. At no point does the white smoke clear up entirely.

Here's what I know.
Australian spec. 187,000 km
Original motor replaced with a 13B of unknown mileage.
I bought it without seeing it in person. PO claims good running condition at time of sale. This was at an elevation of around 300 feet.
I live at 7500 feet.

I'm not sure elevation can explain what's going on (in a gasser, or on a motorcycle, which I'm more familiar with, I would suspect an electrical problem with the color of the smoke and the missing), but maybe it can.

From reading through the entire diesel section here, it sounds like any number of things could be going on.

Injection timing could be too retarded.
Fuel delivery could need adjusting down.
air could be getting into the fuel system.
Injectors could need replacing.
fuel filter could need replacing.
head could be cracked.
I don't have glowplugs but rather a glowscreen. I don't know if it could be the source of such a problem or how to test it.

Oil does not appear to have coolant in it. Coolant doesn't appear to have oil in it. Still sputters and backfires with air filter removed. I managed to handpump a bit of fuel out the face of the pump where there's a locknut...I didn't notice any air bubbles. Battery connections and ground seem clean and tight.

I've seen photos of a 2B but can't quite figure for certain what screw would adjust my fuel delivery based on that.

Nobody I know has any ideas about a good diesel mechanic in Northern New Mexico. Anyone here know of a good shop?

Can anyone describe or point to the fuel adjustment screw on a 13B? Would it help if I posted a photo?

Are the injectors the same units as a 3B? Best place to purchase if they are needed?

[amaurer]

I've seen a few 13B cruisers up for export on ebay lately; where are these 13B's coming from?

Anyway, I'm not an expert, but I've read a lot here and I think your altitude probably explains the black smoke. The white smoke could be any of the usual suspects (injectors, compression, etc etc).

Since the smoke never gets better, I'd say your glow screen is fine. Also no water in oil or visa versa, I wouldn't focus on head cracks (smoke doesn't smell sweet, does it?)

I'd start with the easy stuff, like bleeding your fuel system and setting valve clearances (um, is the 13B a pushrod design?). Then do a compression test (harborfreight has a $24 diesel tester).

[roscoFJ73]

The white smoke is usually and indication of air leaking into the fuel system or combustion that is too cool.
Does it start straight away after glowing the screen?

The injectors are usually rebuilt by replacing the nozzles and testing the springs that control opening pressure..

Which pump do you have ?Rotary or inline? The inline has a row of injector valves on top ,the rotary pump has them in a circle exiting towards the rear.

Download the free online manuals at the top of the 70 and diesel forum and have a read. You maybe able to do some of the tests outlined. The 3B manual includes the 13B
The 13B is a truck and bus engine

[spoof]

Thanks for the replies, guys. It starts right up so far and is an inline pump. I've downloaded the manuals and taken a look. Is the fuel adjustment screw called the "full load stopper" in the manual? This is the only adjustment that appears to control injection volume.

Also, I've bled the fuel system a couple of times now, in accordance with the manual, and not seen a hint of air come out.

Thanks much!

[spoof]

I'd love to locate my fuel adjustment screw.... Can anyone help based on these pictures? Thanks, guys

[amaurer]

What makes you think the fuel needs adjusting? Is there some indication it may have been "messed with"?

I think most people here would tell you that unless you have a pyro then you'll not be able to adjust it properly.

Smoke as a symptom doesn't point directly towards "fuel adjustment screw".

[spoof]

I appreciate you helping me think critically about this, amaurer. Basically the elevation change is making me consider that, whatever other issues I may have, I likely need to dial back the fuel. I have less air available to the engine where I live at 7500 and so less fuel would provide a better mixture and I wouldn't be blowing smoke from unburnt fuel.

I routinely drive into the mountains to around 11000 feet or higher. I know I'll be losing power no matter what at those elevations, but I'd rather loose more power and smoother, less smoky running. I spoke by phone to the diesel mechanic who looked at the truck before it ended up in my hands and he says it sounds like an injector problem and that I should be able to loosen the injectors in turn until the smoke goes away and then I'll know which injector is causing the problem. Familiar process to anyone?

[canucksafari]

Never heard of this process for checking injectors. I am not saying it won't work to identify a bad injector. I will tell you that the only way to really check them is to pull them and have them all tested on a test bench for the correct spray pattern. Also, I would not recommend replace only one or two bad injectors. Do them all at the same time. If has been 100,000 kms or more since the last injector service, you can expect that they will need to be rebuilt. This may not get rid of the smoke by itself and adjustments may be necessary for your turbo or injector pump.

[spoof]

Originally Posted by canucksafari

I would not recommend replace only one or two bad injectors. Do them all at the same time.

Gotcha

[roscoFJ73]

Originally Posted by spoof

I spoke by phone to the diesel mechanic who looked at the truck before it ended up in my hands and he says it sounds like an injector problem and that I should be able to loosen the injectors in turn until the smoke goes away and then I'll know which injector is causing the problem. Familiar process to anyone?

If you had one bad injector it might work(like disconnecting a spark plug when you are looking for a knock) but in my experience ,the injectors tend to wear out at roughly the same time.

I think the screw you are looking for is the "speed screw". If you move it ,you need to be able to get it back to the precise spot in case its not the problem.
Only move it an 1/8th or less of as turn before testing.
Its at one end of the pump from memory.

However Im a firm beleiver you need to have everything else in correct working order before the fuel is adjusted.
That is new filters(air and fuel) and injectors,no air leaks

[spoof]

Rosco,

That makes good sense. I'm sourcing new air and fuel filters right now. I still haven't found a good recommendation on a diesel mechanic in, um, New Mexico. I guess I'll take a look at the condition of the nozzles and see if I can source some new ones.

From reading through the collective MUD wisdom, it does sound like the fuel will need to be adjusted for altitude, however. Makes sense...I've always re-jetted carburetors to run well here. Still, there is that nagging bit that pulling off the air filter didn't smooth anything out.

What the manual refers to as a "speed" screw basically looks like a throttle stop to me, so that's confusing. I'd still be grateful to anyone who can simply tell me where the fuel adjust is on a 13B.

I really appreciate all the thoughtful comments and everyone taking their time to help me out. Will definitely pay it forward whenever I get the chance.

[amaurer]

Well, we have a mystery here. The manual for the *B's, as you say, references this "full stop capsule" (haha, WHAT?!) as controlling the injection volume.

I can find this screw easily on my pump (3B), but youre looks very different. The manual implies it'd be the same on the 13B, but...?

You're sure you have a 13B?

[spoof]

Hey, thanks! I am quite sure that I've got a 13B, but I suppose there's no reason to assume it has the stock injector pump

[amaurer]

Doh, I'm stupid! Was reading the wrong part of the manual. Seriously that whole section is a shit-show.

Here is the 13B screw:

[spoof]

OK, that's what I was guessing. Not saying I'm going to do anything crazy, but clockwise should = less fuel, right?

Bwa ha ha ha!

[diso]

clock wise is more fuel. what you see there is a lock nut cover wich has to be removed and an allen key used. i have just adjusted my 13b for the turbo.

[spoof]

Thanks Diso...much appreciated.

[Tapage]

Little late on this thread .. but here is on a 2H inline pump ..



Mine it's with HAC that do nothing when I'm at hight altitude .. just wondering if I can pull it out ?

[spoof]

Jump on in, Tapage! Wish I knew what to tell you about your HAC. I do recall seeing threads on here that say it's not ideal to remove it, but I'll be damned if I can remember why.

My status: New fuel and air filters = seemingly smoother idle, but that's about it, not change to the smoking. Since my take on the MUD collective knowledge is that it can't hurt to turn the fuel DOWN without a pyrometer, I went ahead and did so. Lost black smoke, most of the white smoke and a fair amount of power too. I'm pretty happy with the progress in terms of smoke. I don't stink like diesel when I walk into the corner store anymore and people don't run from me like the LC is post-apocalyptic pollution machine. It idles smooth, only blows a little white smoke, probably more on sudden deceleration than anything else (or sitting still at idle an really revving it). I still have a case of the spitting, sputter nuisance though, right in the middle of the powerband.

Pyrometer will be here on Saturday. I went with the autometer that is popular here and can clamp on. Once that's installed, I see how much fuel I can dial back in. In the meantime, I guess I'll investigate poor nozzle spray as a culprit in the sputtering and remaining white smoke.

[ohrly?]

where did u order ur pyro, i need one for when i turbo my b

[spoof]

I just checked autometer's website for dealers in my region. Then I had a local shop order it for me, even though it cost $12 bucks more than buying online cause, well, I like to buy stuff from local businesses. The kit I ordered costs $162. Steep, considering that I'm probably a couple years away from being able to assemble a turbo, and still don't know if I'm going to, but it feels like cheap insurance given that I want to be able to adjust my fueling.

[Tapage]

Originally Posted by spoof

but it feels like cheap insurance given that I want to be able to adjust my fueling.

trust me .. it is .. and care on your engine.

[roscoFJ73]

Originally Posted by spoof

, I guess I'll investigate poor nozzle spray as a culprit in the sputtering and remaining white smoke.

I think this will be more of a timing or air leak issue. But it could also be weak springs in the injectors.
The spring pressure allows the injector to open at the correct moment and if the spring is weak it could open a little early ,which is a little like timing as the fuel is sprayed in early.
This means the fuel reaches the "cool" cyl bore and ignites at a lower temp resulting in white smoke.

Bad pump timing will give the same result

Bad nozzles always make black smoke,as the fuel dribbles as the injector opens and closes

[DanS HJ-45]

I just noticed this....

For parts, you know that CDan is in Albuquerque, right? If you want new injectors or anything, I'm sure he can get you the good stuff.

BTW--does it behave this way on #2 diesel, and have you tried filling the tank with B20? You can get it on Cerillos Road at a cardlock pump (Baca Street Biofuels). If the injectors or IP just need cleaning, I'm a firm believer in the powers of biodiesel to help with that. Even on B20 my trucks run a lot better.

I want to see your rig! Pictures?

Dan

[spoof]

Thanks again, guys. My understanding is that I should be able to see air when I bleed the fuel system if air is the problem. Right?

Timing is certainly a possibility, IP timing. I'm a bit apprehensive about tackling that one. I have a fair amount of experience working on motors, but like to have some direction and guidance when I'm tackling unfamiliar systems.

I'll report back on any notable progress. Oh, pics soon, too.

[roscoFJ73]

Originally Posted by spoof

Thanks again, guys. My understanding is that I should be able to see air when I bleed the fuel system if air is the problem. Right?

It bubbles out .you can often hear it

Timing is certainly a possibility, IP timing. I'm a bit apprehensive about tackling that one. I have a fair amount of experience working on motors, but like to have some direction and guidance when I'm tackling unfamiliar systems.

.

I think they have some alignment marks on the flange you can check

[Otterav]

Hello,
Occams Razor. The simplest answer is usually the correct one. Start with the injectors, then have a diesel shop rebuild the injection pump to stock specs. I am looking at the wire you have in place of the EDIC system, I would start first with that, its the most logical place to start and is the most obvious non-stock change visible. The EDIC system provides 3 basic services, Start(overinjection), run, and stop settings. If you have the stupid wire in the wrong position you will be overinjecting and experiencing the symptoms you describe.
Thank Occam
eric

[Otterav]

Originally Posted by spoof

I'd love to locate my fuel adjustment screw.... Can anyone help based on these pictures? Thanks, guys

You are missing some parts, anything you do will just be a band aid until you get a correct EDIC system or replace it with something more precise than that wire from a lawnmower to control your injection pump.
eric

[mel lowe]

Originally Posted by Otterav

You are missing some parts, anything you do will just be a band aid until you get a correct EDIC system or replace it with something more precise than that wire from a lawnmower to control your injection pump.
eric

2x

Watch ebay.au and ebay.ca for toyota edic parts.

They pop up for the 3b and 2h all the time.

Landcruiser HJ60/HJ47/HJ75 EDIC / FUEL CONTROL MOTOR 2H - eBay (item 3