Thumbs down for primer pump

[canucksafari]

Their web site is an ebay store font. Negative comments are one of the first thing I look for with any e-bay vendor in addition to how long they have been around.

I always figure you should give a company or a person a chance to make things right before bad mouthing them or what they sell. If you still are not satisfied after this then post away. IMO that's fair play.

[rchalmers3]

Originally Posted by lostmarbles

But this thing has forced me to rethink how I use of MUD (and my perception of it). I'm going to go back over all the threads I've started and try to remove all references I've made that identify the vendors. I feel that it is simply not fair that positive comments on vendor products are accepted without question while negative comments achieve the type/volume of reactions that I got here.

Mr. Marbles,

I respectfully submit that it's not the vendors names you have mentioned that are the problem, so don't bother re-writing your 1500 some odd posts!

The issue is that you didn't seperate your tech issue and vendor questions.

You tried to be respectful of the vendor, but not giving them a chance to respond to the issue first lacks integrity. We mudders called you out on this point only: On your lack of communication with the vendor!

Bringing your tech issue here first is fine if you address the tech problem and leave the vendor part out till you take it up with them.

There's nothing to rethink about your preceptions or how to use MUD. Your contributions are solid and I thank you for your participation and look forward to your solution for the leaking primer pump.

Rick

[BillyGHusk]

I guess I am in the minority on this issues. At no point did Tom(Lostmarbles) call out the vendor or run them down.

He pointed out that the primer pump they sold him was/is bad.

That point doesn't change even if he were to contact them. Even if they replaced the pump at no charge. The fact that the pump went bad fairly quickly (relative term) doesn't change.

If his posts had been along the vein of:

I bought this pump and am getting no customer service from them even though I haven't ask for any.....

Then I would understand the uproar. He went out of his way to ask for positive experiences relating to the product in question, which nobody has posted good experience with said product yet.

Now that he has contacted Roodog and they have stated they will refund his money plus shipping....THE PUMP STILL WENT BAD....which was the point of the thread.....

tech content....when I changed my pump the the Bosch I had to use a pair of vise grips on the old one as I couldn't get a wrench on the nut....

[amaurer]

Originally Posted by BillyGHusk

Now that he has contacted Roodog and they have stated they will refund his money plus shipping....THE PUMP STILL WENT BAD....which was the point of the thread.....

x2

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by BillyGHusk

I guess I am in the minority on this issues. At no point did Tom(Lostmarbles) call out the vendor or run them down.

He pointed out that the primer pump they sold him was/is bad.

That point doesn't change even if he were to contact them. Even if they replaced the pump at no charge. The fact that the pump went bad fairly quickly (relative term) doesn't change.

If his posts had been along the vein of:

I bought this pump and am getting no customer service from them even though I haven't ask for any.....

Then I would understand the uproar. He went out of his way to ask for positive experiences relating to the product in question, which nobody has posted good experience with said product yet.

Now that he has contacted Roodog and they have stated they will refund his money plus shipping....THE PUMP STILL WENT BAD....which was the point of the thread.....

tech content....when I changed my pump the the Bosch I had to use a pair of vise grips on the old one as I couldn't get a wrench on the nut....

These are very close to my sentiments also. Maybe there was some early editing which I missed, but I don't see a problem with this thread or Tom's desire to post his experience.

It is a concern that posters are pressured when posting up legitimate concerns and experiences that are not positive. Especially when the opposite is openly encouraged.
For feedback systems to work, it must be possible to relay negative experiences as well as positive. Otherwise the system loses all value. The Ebay and locally trademe feedback systems have lost value due to this.

The ultimate test of a products value is; given the same choices again, would you buy this product.
For Tom, that seems to be a "no" and we should learn why.

[lostmarbles]

Thanks folks!

What's happened here SHOULD cause a furore. And I can't understand why the majority of ordinary cruiserheads out there (those without vending interests) have abstained from voicing their concerns.

I think it is fair to say that most people on this site live in countries where "freedom of speech" is valued. Yet so many people seem happy with the idea that we (the ordinary cruiserheads that form the basis of ih8mud) should NOT be able to freely discuss the products we install on our cruisers.

Perhaps it was the threat by Brownbear to throw this thread into chat for "vendor slamming"? (And people don't want to be seen as "upsetting the ih8mud administrators"?)

Clearly I was "product slamming" and not "vendor slamming".

Now in this case the vendor chose to stock an unbranded item so the only way for me to identify it was through using the vendor's name. (Shouldn't a vendor realise that if they stock an unbranded product they are likely to get tainted when it turns out to be faulty?)

The whole process of "go back to the vendor first" is about protecting the vendors interests by keeping news of faulty products away from the ears of other potential purchasers.

I've been posting on mud with REAL ENTHUSIAM because I felt I was able to help others who are just like myself. I strongly resent my threads being used as bait to lure innocent victims into a web of "vendor-spiders". (I wouldn't place myself up on the same level as them but I wonder how mudders I really admire like "M5driver" and "Henry James the 47th" feel. If M5driver finds his Rustbullet peels off the frame no matter how well it is applied - Shouldn't he be allowed to tell you so without incurring the wrath of those with the "sort it out behind closed doors with the supplier first" attitude?!!)

If I was happy luring victims into vendor-webs I'd try to become a contributor to that dominant Aussi 4WD magazine. Then if I succeeded at least I'd get paid in the process .

In retrospect, I now feel I was wrong to contact Roodogs over this. And I was also wrong to go back over my threads trying to remove most of the vendor details and brandnames.

Hey. Just thinking off to one side..... I wonder why it is that there are seldom objections when people attack Toyota salesmen, SOR (commonly referred to as $OR) etc. Clearly some targets are acceptable to MUD even when people decide to slam vendors directly.

And I'm starting to notice that some people on MUD give lots of advice and purport to be cruiserheads - yet I don't see them ask questions of their own or show off their own cruisers. That's interesting to me now where I hadn't even noticed before! But hang on...... I'm becoming paranoid..... (And I am Lostmarbles.)

So I now see that I've got just two choices:

1. Withdraw permanently from MUD as a contributor (and ask the administrators to remove all the threads I have started), or
2. Continue as I was (if I can - now that I know my views upset so many people that I had respected) with everyone knowing that I WILL REPEAT what I set out to do in this thread - as and when the need arises.

Meanwhile I'm taking a break from starting new threads and from general posting till I suss out what to do.

"Time" tends to make one's position clearer.

[roscoFJ73]

You are making a mountian out of a mole hill. Move on and keep posting

[canucksafari]

Originally Posted by roscoFJ73

You are making a mountian out of a mole hill. Move on and keep posting

X2 I lost a lot more money than the price of a single primer pump. I argued with the service provider. When i didn't get satisfaction, I then posted a warning about my experience. Said, done and over - only to be repeated if someone asks for advise about that type of service. Let's get back to diesel tech.

[lshobie]

You think you are having a bad day - check out these guys:

YouTube - Real Car Crash

[Moe R]

Clearly I was "product slamming" and not "vendor slamming".

Personally, this is why I had no responce to this post. I gathered the info and figured I learned a lesson at Tom's unfortunate experience and possible expence. I can't figure why so many panties got wetOh yea, time to get back to biz

[beejay42]

Option 2 Tom- OPTION 2!

I was one of them that said contact the vendor- and sure, 'respect for the vendor' is one issue at play- but primarily I say that because you should be able to get your money back or a replacement product. We're not a forum of vendors (I hope) we are a forum of consumers, cruiser owners- we are not here to look after the vendor- but ourselves (I hope)... 'That vendor' (are we gonna have to talk like this now) had just recently proved to me that 'making things right' was high on their priority list- so thats why I said it- the product didn't work, you deserved a new one or your money back- 'that vendor' was IMO likely to give you such.

I for one have gained greatly from your posts. Don't stop now-

my only wish is that you posted this thread 2 days earlier (before I had one ordered and on the way). The fact that I have one of these in my truck already- that it is leaking, that yours has leaked, and that it is an unbranded taiwanese model would have been enough for me- nothing to do with the vendor- all about the product- especially when there appear to be other good options out there.

So I have a new one of these sitting here- waiting to go in... not quite sure what to do.
I suppose at least it is not too hard to replace if it does leak again... and then I will get a refund like you have...
anyway-

carry on posting as you would- forget this storm in a teacup- you've done nothing wrong- and for F's sake, don't go back editing your posts.

thanks,
Hans.

[lostmarbles]

Well Moe's sort-of right. But I haven't just "wet my panties". I've blown two holes clean through them.

Now I gotta my sh*t back together. (And it takes a bit of gathering up.)

Methinks I need timeout for a while!

I'm a "newage sensitive guy" you know!

[Moe R]

I wasn't talking about you. You have the right to approach your situation the way you deem necessary. Personally, I usually get a kick out of your posts but I almost always learn something. Post on!

[rchalmers3]

Tom Marbleless,

Keep posting.

I just visited Cuba, a country where the freedom to dis-agree is policed and carefully guarded against.

It is my opinion that we are better off with the relative amount of freedom of expression that we currently possess.

The down side of this freedom is having to accomodate a difference of opinion that at times can be confrontational, personal, or divisive.

The difference of opinions and collective accumulation of experience is why I'm here. I am appreciative of the freedom to associate with y'all and I am willing to put up with being dis-agreed with.

Thanks again.

Rick

[canucksafari]

Originally Posted by rchalmers3

The difference of opinions and collective accumulation of experience is why I'm here. I am appreciative of the freedom to associate with y'all and I am willing to put up with being dis-agreed with.

Amen Comrade! I mean Compadre!

[lostmarbles]

Yeah. Thanks everyone. I'm actually a hardy soul (and not really cowering away feeling severely hurt as I may have implied).

We needed to take a stand here otherwise this thread would have stood as a message to all and sundry that free discussion about products on MUD is not acceptable.

Such a message would not have been in our best interests or in the best interests of the owners of this Internet site.

Vendors will continue to be attracted here (and MUD will continue to get their vital advertising revenue) only if we (the ordinary cruiserheads) frequent the site. If we lost the ability to freely discuss the products we buy - then a big slice of the attraction MUD has for us would be lost. And we would certainly leave.

MUD is the BEST 4x4 discussion site I've found on the Internet and I want to keep it that way. (It is streets ahead of any other that I've found.)

We've successfully turned this thread around to make it clear that we want to be able to freely discuss the products we buy.

As with all battles, there were mistakes made, toes trodden on, etc.

Brownbear was right to remove the vendor's name from my thread title. And my judgement was faulty in placing it so prominently there.

It's cost me personally in that now I don't feel comfortable dealing with that supplier. (At least not for quite a while.) I can't possibly be "flavour of the month" with them no matter what they (or anybody else) says to the contrary.

So it's over - I'm opting for option 2.

Not sure I could abstain from posting for much longer anyway.

But we must remain vigilant to protect what we see as being of value in MUD.

Don't trust anyone. For all you know - a supplier could give free product to me - (Hey. Anybody out there want to do so? ) - then how could I stop myself from talking positively about them and their product (which I may already be using). It is indeed a twisted world that we live in. So even those of you who I think of as my mates must feel free (if you don't already) to "sock me in the jaw" if you think I'm not being fair or am in any way harming what YOU value in MUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Moe R]

Damn glad to have you back.