3B- oil in water- no water in oil.

[beejay42]

Alright,
title says most of it.
This is about my newly bought BJ42- that I have not got started yet (due to a bad starter motor.... I hope....)
It just got freighted to me-
it drove onto the truck- didn't drive off.
Battery was bad- max charge at 10%- replaced, still didn't turn over- so
starter motor came off and the wiring for brushes has melted/cracked loose.
Will be getting a new brush kit, or a new starter motor on monday hopefully..

In the mean time I checked out the coolant this afternoon- and was dismayed to find about 5-10mm of milky oil floating on top (this is probably just 5-10mm colected in the top fill section- rather than across the whole top of the radiator).
I drained some oil out of the sump- and thankfully there is no water in that (no creamyness and no bubbles doing a hot pan test).

So- any advice on my situation?
Need a new head gasket? Something worse? Something better?

Cheers guys,
Hans.

p.s. despite the honest promises from the genuinely seeming honest PO and his father- that the truck was as described (drove and appeared) and had absolutely no mechanical issues- I suppose it just serves me right for taking a gamble and only getting an uncle to inspect and drive it, rather than getting a full mechancial survey... (btw. uncle is finding it hard to believe he would have missed oil in the water- and thinks maybe the problem occured between inspection and delivery...)
Yep. my bad. bugger.

[christacia]

head gasket shot its an easy fix happened to me and since the head was off i got it re surfaced well worth it!!

[rchalmers3]

Originally Posted by beejay42

and was dismayed to find about 5-10mm of milky oil floating on top (this is probably just 5-10mm colected in the top fill section- rather than across the whole top of the radiator). Need a new head gasket? Something worse? Something better? Hans.

Hans, sometimes people put nasty chemicals into the cooling system to stop leaks. Often these chemicals have petroleum bases and can look like the concoction you are describing.

Why don't you call the seller and ask if there was any chemicals used or if they have any idea why it looks like that in the radiator?

You may eventually pull the head off to replace the gasket, but please check the easy stuff first!

Rick

[beejay42]

Thanks Christacia and Rick,

Christacia, I have been reading through the 3B manual about taking the head off... I've tinkered a very-little with car engines and fair bit with my 2-stroke inboard boat engine and gearbox- but i've never done a head before. I think I could do it- with a little help, and purchasing a couple of tools- torque wrench mainly- and its probably time to get another decent socket set (my other two and half crappo sets live and rust on the boat)

Rick,
thanks for that- you reminded me that someone else actually mentioned that today too- so I will be sure to ask him that- when I get in contact with him.
His phone has been off today.
He has continued to politely answer my calls throughout the starter motor questions- so I doubt he has started ignoring my calls... yet...
anyway, I know where he lives

Both my uncle and I picked this young guy and his father as really genuine and trustworthy people- so I would be surprised if they deliberately ripped me- but I have been surprised before.
We'll see.

As a test- I just got some of the oil out of the radiator (pretty easy, just dip your finger in) and cooked it down in a little mini pan-
the water bubbled off, and it cooked down to a browny green oil of the same viscosity as engine oil- but smelling slightly different (maybe from being so washed?) than the sump oil- and of course being a lot lighter in colour (than used black/brown)- but really not that far off colour.
Both smoking and cold the smell was slightly different- but then this may be expected of used sump oil and washed sump oil?

Anyway- I hope to contact him tomorrow and have quite a serious conversation with him.
If he has deliberately passed this problem to me- then I at least need to know what he knows in order to move forward.... we can work out the details later (you know, horses heads on his front lawn and what not).

other than that, I've got to get the starter motor fixed or replaced, and get it running, so I can at least drive it down to a mechanics for a diagnosis.

I just hope it's not a cracked head...

thanks all,
Hans.

[amaurer]

Despite the admittedly large number (and size) of parts you need to take off, removing the head is no big deal. I thought I had a bad head gasket so I took it off a few days ago, took no more than 2.5 hours. Theres some pictures of the job if it helps you: http://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-...ead-crack.html

Be aware, if you go so far as to remove it, it'd be criminal in my opinion not to replace the precups while you're in there. There are a number of threads around here about what happens when a precup drops [boom!]. Mine, like almost everyone's, had big cracks; yours will too.

[crushers]

my suggestions is to start cheap and work up.

drain the coolant, flush the system, install new coolant and drive it for a couple days, while cool check and see if the oil came back...probably not.

jumping the gun costs a lot of money and sometimes is not the real issue...

[matt.mcinnes]

Originally Posted by beejay42

I think I could do it- with a little help, and purchasing a couple of tools- torque wrench mainly- and its probably time to get another decent socket set (my other two and half crappo sets live and rust on the boat)
Hans.

Just get the sockets you can borrow this if the worst comes to the worst.

[beejay42]

your a champ matt

if worst does come- then I found a new head on ebay last night- $499. Does that sound about right?



thanks all-
Hans.

[beejay42]

Thanks amaurer,
that thread and pics are very helpful. I'll look into the precup thing.

And thanks Crusher-
I will definately be following that strategy.
First things is to get it started-

got some prices for the a new starter motor IF the suppliers can get them. Toyota parts are out of them- and quoted something stupid like $1600 anyway- which would have to be brought in from Japan (for more $ on top).

I couldn't find a part number on the starter- but Repco tell me what I need is an OEX DXS446.

Repco and Bursons are both looking like $500-ish give or take a bit- neither of them have one in stock and have to order it in from a supplier- IF the supplier has them in stock- (they are both going to be looking into 'Jlec' and Bosch options)
The big price it seems is that the unit can only be had as one (Bursons are looking into if I can just get the motor or brushes- but Toyota and Repco claim that I can't)- motor AND gear- rather than a just brush kit or seperate motor? This seems a little odd.

So, I will see what the auto-elec has to say about reconditioning it.
Strange thing is- in the manual it looks like the brush holder should be able to seperate from the field frame (field coil)- rather than be soldered to it like mine was?
This probably deserves some more investigation and another thread.

[beejay42]

well-
no dodgey quick fix solder for the starter-
My girlfriends uncle who is an auto electrician and has owned 40's before has offered to totally rebuild it for me-
I just have to post it up to him in Ballarat.
means it won't be till later in the week when I can fire it up- but at least it will be a good rebuild.

considering my story (retold to him- as I haven't talked to him directly about it yet)- he was thinking maybe a blown gasket/cracked head- water in the combustion chamber- more strain on starter- solder as the weakest link in the starter- first to go... or something like that...
If this is the case- hopefully nothing else has been damaged..

[beejay42]

Today we did a dodgey temporary fix on the starter motor- soldered up the wires- put it in...
and started it.
It sounds great and runs great. Took it for a couple of sneaky unregistered blockies round my street..

Then- after trying all weekend to call the PO- and giving up to my pessimism that he was ignoring my calls- and that this meant the worst (head)- he finally called back tonight.
Been away on holiday all weekend... was a bit alarmed at all my missed calls

he couldn't believe that anything would be wrong with the head/head gasket... we'll see...
said- just before delivery he had replaced the thermostat housing- and couldn't get a gasket for it from toyota- so did as advised and used a heap of gasket grease and tipped a bottle of BARS LEAKS in it...
Hopefully this is the source of the oil gunk.

tomorrow morning I am going to pull the starter back off and send it away for a spruce up- the brush holder is a mess- and I might as well get the whole thing rebuilt (especially as the only cost will be the postage).

then, get it back, drain the coolant- and see if the oil returns.
Heres hoping...

[matt 105]

Originally Posted by beejay42

.......and tipped a bottle of BARS LEAKS in it...
...

Mate, you want to drain that out right now!!!

Matt

[beejay42]

Righto- will do tomorrow morning too- but why? I've been trying to find out what that crap actually is- do you know the stuff? Thanks. Hans.

[matt 105]

Nasty stuff!
Try a search on here.
Plenty of horror stories, or ask your local radiator shop or anywhere that sells water pumps.

Matt

[beejay42]

done a bit of searching-
some say ok, others say trouble...
I'll take trouble- don't want to clog up anything or damage my water pump.
It will be coming out ASAP (tomorrow morning or the next).

Any ideas on what the stuff is made of?
Whats the best flush out to get rid of the stuff and its reminents?

I've tried a couple of commercial radiator flushes on my current/last car- did jack-shit.
I changed the thermostat and pump right after two flushes- and there was still all sorts of garbage through the system (not even just the baked on stuff- plenty of light weight rusty jelly-like scum)- while the flushing cleaning water had come out clean.
Waste of time and money IME.

[crushers]

this is how i do a "flush" of the cooling system...take it for what it is worth..

drain the system of antifreeze

fill with water
remove the heater hose closet to the firewall
remove rad cap
plug one end of the heater hose
using a high rpessure source shove the nozzle into the other end of the heater hose and squeeze. water will (after a few seconds) burst out of the rad. do this till you have clean water.
remove plug and stick it into the other end (i just use my thumb) and stick the pressure into the other end and repeat till clear water is coming out of the rad fill.
remove plug and reinstall rad cap.
do not plug the other end of heater hose, shove pressure into the heater hose and let loose till clear water comes out
reverse and repeat
replace heater hose conection
coolant presse test the system
(good time to replace thermostate etc)
drain water and add antifreeze mixture
done.
you will have wicked heat from the heater
you will have perfect cooling from the rad

[beejay42]

thanks crushers-
that sounds like a good system..
only problem for me following that- I don't have a heater- will be trying to put one in soon- and am yet to figure out where and how to plumb it in.
Was going to start a thread on it soon actually.

[crushers]

you have a rear hose that goes across the top of the engine right?
pull one end off and have at it...same technique

[beejay42]

I'm not too sure-
Ill check it out tomorrow in the light- heres some pics