Actual improvement with intercooler

[Cañonero]

Hello.

I was going to mention this in the water to air intercooler thread we are doing now, but its maybe better in a separate post.

I've been investigating in lots of 4wd forums about what kind of intercooler suits better and I found lots of people dissapointed with the improvement they got after installing and intercooler, it specially worried me some of them saying that "an intercooler in a big and old engine is a waste of money, it really works with more modern and small displacement engines".

Well, i'd like to ask your opinion about the improvement after fitting an intercooler in four areas.

1) Performance. Some people say they don't felt any improvement, some say lots of improvement, but, by far, most of the people say that, to have a performance improvement, you have to tweak your fuel pump and turbo pressure. If so, people like me that already have te pump and turbo tweaked, won't have any extra performance only by installing an intercooler?

2) Fuel comsumption. Some noticed a slightly decrease in consumption, some a very noticeable decrease, and some didn't noticed any fuel consumption variation at all.

3) Engine reliability. In this case, most of the people that has measured the EGT, noticed some decrease, so it should be good for engine life. The question is, how much?

4) Turbo life. Here I've read everything, people that thinks the turbo will suffer much more and will worn faster (speciall with front mount units), because it needs to turn faster to keep the same pressure. Some others that say the intercooler allows you to run bigger turbo pressures safely. And some think it will just life a little big longer.


What do people more experienced than me think?

Thanks.

[cody c]

i have noticed the engine temps at highway speeds have dropped 100 to 200 degrees. i still have to work out the bugs and am considering putting a fan on it. (top mounted) i think the decrease in engine temps will have a significant difference to its life span in contrast to a non IC'ed turbo setup. i think the best thing would be to do the turbo and IC at the same time. mine will be in mud from time to time so it is top mounted.

[joshoisasleep]

I'm interested in what people have to say about engine temps. I was thinking of intercooling but had someone tell me it would increase my temps like adding an extra A/C. Dos the cooling action of the IC outweigh the decreased efficiency of the rad?

[crushers]

1) Performance:
the intercooler is designed to cool the charge of air entering the combustion chamber. this will allow you to run a larger amounts of boost so you can crank up the settings
or
you can enjoy a cooler charge at the present setting. this will give you longer engine life.
the biggest problem with most people is "if a little is good then a lot is better" but not allways the case.

2) fuel consumption is directly related to your right foot. just adding an intercooler to present setting will not change the fuel milage

3) engine reliability is related to the fuel bing fed, the maintanence being done and your right foot. an intercooler will cool the charge of air but realisticly it will not change the life expectancy of an engine.

4) turbo life expectancy is directly related to oil and heat. think of it this way, anything you do downstream of the turbo will not affect the turbo. the turbo is a mech device designed to apply boosted air charge. the intercooler does not change this. if the intercooler is too big then the boost will be affected, if it is too small then the cooling of the air charge will be less than desired. the turbo itself does not know any difference.

i am pulling all this info out of my ass so take it will a bag of salt.

Originally Posted by Cañonero

Hello.

I was going to mention this in the water to air intercooler thread we are doing now, but its maybe better in a separate post.

I've been investigating in lots of 4wd forums about what kind of intercooler suits better and I found lots of people dissapointed with the improvement they got after installing and intercooler, it specially worried me some of them saying that "an intercooler in a big and old engine is a waste of money, it really works with more modern and small displacement engines".

Well, i'd like to ask your opinion about the improvement after fitting an intercooler in four areas.

1) Performance. Some people say they don't felt any improvement, some say lots of improvement, but, by far, most of the people say that, to have a performance improvement, you have to tweak your fuel pump and turbo pressure. If so, people like me that already have te pump and turbo tweaked, won't have any extra performance only by installing an intercooler?

2) Fuel comsumption. Some noticed a slightly decrease in consumption, some a very noticeable decrease, and some didn't noticed any fuel consumption variation at all.

3) Engine reliability. In this case, most of the people that has measured the EGT, noticed some decrease, so it should be good for engine life. The question is, how much?

4) Turbo life. Here I've read everything, people that thinks the turbo will suffer much more and will worn faster (speciall with front mount units), because it needs to turn faster to keep the same pressure. Some others that say the intercooler allows you to run bigger turbo pressures safely. And some think it will just life a little big longer.


What do people more experienced than me think?

Thanks.

[The Dude]

I also noticed a big drop in engine EGTs. on average 150-200* but the big plus is the WOT decrease. I can't get over 1250 and it takes me a long time to get there. Prior to the intercooler, it was mash the pedal and be careful as I could dip into the 1400s.

I also agree with Wayne on the longevity of the turbo, it is heat and oil that will kill it. Lower EGTs should result in lower temps the turbo sees.

I did notice better fuel economy, but as Wayne said, it's because of the right foot. I am not into it as much as I was without the intercooler.

I am also running 14psi of boost. I believe the higher the boost you are running the great efficiency the intercooler can provide. I "think" it is because your intercooler can only cool to ambient temp at it greatest efficiency, because taking air and compressing it generates heat, the more you compress it, the denser it is and the more heat it contains. The intercooler take full advantage of this by removing more heat creating even denser air to enter your engine. more air means more fuel can be burnt and more VROOM VROOM

I am in the same boat as Wayne...

Originally Posted by crushers

i am pulling all this info out of my ass so take it will a bag of salt.

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by The Dude

Lower EGTs should result in lower temps the turbo sees.

The intercooler does not affect the turbo temps as the intercooler is downstream from the turbo. It only affects the temperature of the air entering the engine.

[The Dude]

but colder air entering the engine lowers the EGTs and doesn't that effect the turbo? That air is entering the hot side and will transmit through the housing ect??

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by The Dude

but colder air entering the engine lowers the EGTs and doesn't that effect the turbo? That air is entering the hot side and will transmit through the housing ect??

I suppose it would but it's relatively minor. The intercoolers main fuction is getting the charge air temps down for a denser air to the engine.

[lshobie]

I notice a great difference with my intercooler, if I floored it in the past with no intercooler I coulr run the EGT's to 1200 in a hurry, now with the intercooler the egt's jump to 900-then stop moving at 1000 while the vehicle it still accelerating. Eventually I have to back off but not until I am happy with the speeds.

I don't care about fuel economy - it is a cruiser.

The way you drive affects your engine life - as well does engine and vehicle maintenance.

The amount of heat your engine produces probably won't kill your turbo - your engine will fail because of heat before your turbo will - unless it is a n old turbo or not properly suited to your vehicle.

I think most metals start melting at about 1250 -1300, running your engine egt's to that point is not going to prolong engine life. Drive conservatively and enjoy the drive.

Regards,

[joshoisasleep]

What's your setup Ishobie?

[lshobie]

2004 Hzj79 1hz

[seapotato]

same boat for me. ic lowered egt's by a couple hundred degrees, which allowed me to turn up the fuel screw again which, = more power.

so for the 200 bucks the project cost me, it was definately worth it.

longevity? meh. it's a 3b. there's always another one out in the barn...


j/k, but really it's not going to make much of a difference in the longevity departement, unless your turbo takes a dump.

then the ic catches the chunks before your engine does.

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by seapotato

so for the 200 bucks the project cost me, it was definately worth it.

$200? I'm game. You don't by any chance have a write-up on that do you?

[seapotato]

well, there's really not much to it, buy yourself an intercooler that will fit in the space you have ( I got mine from a place called ssautochrome was 200 bucks to my door, and this was back when a us dollar cost a bit more... but you can easily find used volvo ic's for half that , and someone posted a link a while back to another company that had super cheap ic's.)

make it fit, run a couple hoses...I used marine wet exhaust hose for the piping where I needed rubber joints. silicone fittings are a waste of money unless you're after the bling.

so it's not a complex thing really, it's just making it fit.I did it to the fj45 I had and things were different in that engine bay, so I had tons of room to move the rad back.
hell if you want to go totally ghetto, you could just stick it ontop of the front bumper, run some hoses and do a test run that way.

[Dougal]

The reason newer, smaller engines respond better to intercooler upgrades is due to the boost levels they run.
Lower boost is at a lower temperature so there isn't as much cooling to be done. Below about 10psi there's no point in intercooling a diesel, but some modern diesels run as much as 45psi boost.

Many people are concerned about a front mount intercooler blocking airflow to the radiator. It's a valid concern but usuall the more heat the intercooler sheds, the less the radiator has to. So the total cooling load on the air stream through the grill won't change radically.

Regarding fuel consumption, an intercooler does increase engine efficiency, again how much you get is "how long is a piece of string". But don't expect more than a few percent.

They only make your turbo work harder if you change the boost levels.
If the intercooler and piping restriction drops boost by 1psi then it doesn't matter. The turbo still only produces the original boost but at a slightly higher flow rate as the cooled air gains density. Some people crank up the boost to compensate for intercooler pressure drop. That is folly.

Do they drop EGT's? Certainly! There's a rule of thumb which is drop 1 deg from your intake and the exhaust temp will drop by the same amount. But your exact figures may vary.

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by Dougal

Below about 10psi there's no point in intercooling a diesel, but some modern diesels run as much as 45psi boost.

You mean strictly in terms of power right? If one wanted just to lower their EGT's an intercooler would still be a good idea?

Originally Posted by Dougal

Many people are concerned about a front mount intercooler blocking airflow to the radiator. It's a valid concern but usuall the more heat the intercooler sheds, the less the radiator has to. So the total cooling load on the air stream through the grill won't change radically.

But if it was mounted away from the rad would you theoretically get even better performance from your cooling system?

Originally Posted by Dougal

Do they drop EGT's? Certainly! There's a rule of thumb which is drop 1 deg from your intake and the exhaust temp will drop by the same amount. But your exact figures may vary.

So for someone like me who has my intake piping going very close to the pipe that attached to my exhaust manifold, could I gain a similar effect on a smaller scale by simply insulating the intake piping?

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by seapotato

hell if you want to go totally ghetto, you could just stick it ontop of the front bumper, run some hoses and do a test run that way.

I could actually do something like that without it being too ghetto at all. My front bumper is totally massive and the IC could cuddle up tidily under/behind my winch.

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by Dougal

Do they drop EGT's? Certainly! There's a rule of thumb which is drop 1 deg from your intake and the exhaust temp will drop by the same amount. But your exact figures may vary.

So again along the same lines. By installing a snorkel and sucking in air that is not coming from inside my hot engine compartment, do you see that being an advantage as far as intake temperature?

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by joshoisasleep

So again along the same lines. By installing a snorkel and sucking in air that is not coming from inside my hot engine compartment, do you see that being an advantage as far as intake temperature?

Are you not OEM with the air intake behind the headlight? If not, get the air from anywhere other than the engine compartment. I always chuckle when people put the air cleaner open inside the engine compartment and no piping to the outside.

[Tapage]

Originally Posted by joshoisasleep

I could actually do something like that without it being too ghetto at all. My front bumper is totally massive and the IC could cuddle up tidily under/behind my winch.

But inder behind your winch .. I see 2 posible problems.

1. Blocking the air ..

2. Close to the winch, mmm your cable could hit it and get you in troubles.

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by joshoisasleep

You mean strictly in terms of power right? If one wanted just to lower their EGT's an intercooler would still be a good idea?

At 10psi the air temp is only about 80 deg C. If you've got an intercooler that can take 60% of the heat out (that's quite a good intercooler) then you're only dropping the temps by 40 deg C max. The density improvement is only 12% and if your intercooler has 1.2 psi restriction then you've gained no density increase.

But yes taking air from a cool place (diesel engine bay temps aren't that hot unless you're near the exhaust) is an excellent idea, as is insulating the exhaust so it doesn't heat your intake. Snorkles are counter productive unless you need one for wading. The extra length and restriction undoes any gain from getting cold air.
Simply taking the intake to the front of the engine bay and not behind the radiator will help the most.

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by Dougal

At 10psi the air temp is only about 80 deg C. If you've got an intercooler that can take 60% of the heat out (that's quite a good intercooler) then you're only dropping the temps by 40 deg C max. The density improvement is only 12% and if your intercooler has 1.2 psi restriction then you've gained no density increase.

What ambient air temperature is that assuming? I thought that made a big difference...

In other words you sound like you really know what you're talking about as usual, but from what you're saying it sounds like there's very little point. With people reporting 200+ degree improvements to their EGT levels, I'd like to believe I would see those kind of results!!

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by joshoisasleep

What ambient air tempera